[realshelby]

Not to beat this dead horse any more, but the Liqui Moly from BB has API SM rating and the manual calls for API SL. I am not an oil guy and don't know the difference. Does one supersede the other or surpass the other?

I know read the manual. But I am getting conflicting info on the API rating. Bottom line is it OK to use API SM instead of API SL?

The way the API standards are designed allows oils with a later designation to be considered acceptable for use in older engines that stated an earlier designation.

So, if your engine specs call for "SL" API rating, then SM, SN would automatically be acceptable. If you engine calls for SM, then SL would NOT be considered acceptable. As long as the rating is higher than what your engine calls for, it is acceptable for use.

That said, there have been cases where the later designations were NOT ok, but these are rare. Most of them were in much older generation engines.

The Liqui-Moly you use is what I use also. I have gone over 7000 miles on that oil and had it tested. Good for at least 9000 miles according to that report. That report also shows less wear metals with LM oil than any other I have used. Good stuff!

 

[PadG]

Terry gave the perfect detailed reply, and to add to it, look at what BMW's oil is rated - "ADVANTEC ULTIMATE, SAE 5W-40 (API SN/JASO MA2)".

https://www.bobsbmw.com/store/product/bmw-advantec-ultimate-5w-40-engine-oil---one-liter

 

[Hfjeff]

The way the API standards are designed allows oils with a later designation to be considered acceptable for use in older engines that stated an earlier designation.

So, if your engine specs call for "SL" API rating, then SM, SN would automatically be acceptable. If you engine calls for SM, then SL would NOT be considered acceptable. As long as the rating is higher than what your engine calls for, it is acceptable for use.

That said, there have been cases where the later designations were NOT ok, but these are rare. Most of them were in much older generation engines.

The Liqui-Moly you use is what I use also. I have gone over 7000 miles on that oil and had it tested. Good for at least 9000 miles according to that report. That report also shows less wear metals with LM oil than any other I have used. Good stuff!

 

[GSinNC]

Since the oil for the RT is so specific, difficult to find, and apparently, the engine will go chernobyl if you don't put the exact, correct oil in (sarcasm)... Does everyone carry a small container of this highly specialized oil on their bike, in case you have low oil, and are not within proximity of a bmw motorcycle service center that is open at the time you need it? What if you were on a long trip, and your oil level became low?

I was thinking... Maybe I could one of those small, lawn mower 2-cycle oil containers and fill it with RT specific oil and carry it with me. Does anyone actually do this?

https://bestrestproducts.com/product-category/oil-jugs/

 

[tvguy]

Terry gave the perfect detailed reply, and to add to it, look at what BMW's oil is rated - "ADVANTEC ULTIMATE, SAE 5W-40 (API SN/JASO MA2)".

https://www.bobsbmw.com/store/product/bmw-advantec-ultimate-5w-40-engine-oil---one-liter

Why is this so expensive??? The label?
I use this at $8.35/quart... wish it came in liters. The oil change requires 4 liters or 4 quart +200cc
Castrol

 

[PadG]

Why is this so expensive??? The label?
I use this at $8.35/quart... wish it came in liters. The oil change requires 4 liters or 4 quart +200cc
Castrol

Never touch the stuff myself!!!! :histerica


Like Terry, I also use LiquiMoly after Rotella decided to change their label spec.

BTW, there was a thread on the other forum that had lots of actual analytical data, which I had found to be quite enlightening, unlike other oil threads which I avoid completely. Too many "self-proclaimed experts" who couldn't see the forest for the trees, in most of those threads.

 

[NoelCP]

I use this at $8.35/quart
Castrol

I thought I'd try the magic PAO LiquiMoly and noticed no difference in shifting behavior or other with it so went to the no-brainer Castrol which meets specs exactly, has no molybdenum additive, and is 1/3 less $$ than LiquiMoly and 1/2 the cost of Advantec Ult.

 

[realshelby]

I thought I'd try the magic PAO LiquiMoly and noticed no difference in shifting behavior or other with it so went to the no-brainer Castrol which meets specs exactly, has no molybdenum additive, and is 1/3 less $$ than LiquiMoly and 1/2 the cost of Advantec Ult.

Are you sure it has no molybdenum? Cause the tests on it show fairly high levels of it. Especially compared to Liqui-Moly.
Look at the line with the molybdenum ppm in the test sheet attached under the heading with 85,000 miles. This is Castrol. That is about the same amount as Shell Rotella T-6!

 

[realshelby]

Here is my test on the RT. 49,640 mile column is Mobil 1, 42,470 column is liqui-moly, 22,025 column is Rotella T-6.

Compare the molybdenum....

 

[GSinNC]

I'm with Noel on this one. I use the Castrol in both my LC Boxers and change it every 2500 to 3000 miles. Never burned a drop and reasonably priced. Meets ALL the BMW specs and can get it delivered to my door. Prior to the LC bikes I had always used the BMW non-synthetic oil as recommended in the owners manual of my bikes. I later switched to the Bel Ray when BMW stopped making the non-synthetic in the weights I needed. That was the same as what Bob's BMW recommended. It really is not that complicated. I carry about 10 oz. of the Castrol stuff on both bikes but have never needed it. But I still carry it ... but that is just me.

As a note I use Castrol 5w-30 in my 1999 Explorer that has 230,000 miles on it ... does not burn a drop. 2 years ago when he dealership had the valve covers off to replace the gaskets they sent me a text photo of the engine with covers off and the inside of the covers ... why? Because they said they had never ever seen an engine with that many miles that was so clean. Hey ... for me if something works I stick with it. A long time ago I stopped trying to fix stuff that was not broken. As always YMMV.

 

[taran1900]

As I said, read the label!

It seems that Shell had removed the gasoline engine related specification from their T6 label as well as what they claim, on their web site, as the specification for the T6, about a year ago. Did they also change the formulation? Don't know, but I won't risk using the oil for my regular oil change even if it happen to be the one that I usually use!

Last year just before I changed the oil on my R1250RT at 6k, I looked into Shell Rotella T6 and what I found is exactly as you said. Rotella T6 is no longer is certified for API SL or higher. Maybe it's the same, maybe it isn't. But it's not on the bottle. With the threads on cam failures in the wethead R1200s on the MOA forum, I'm not taking any chances. I am sticking with the factory rating or above so there's no question if my bike has an engine issue.

BMW recommends ADVANTEC ULTIMATE, SAE 5W-40 (API SN/JASO MA2), but the manual says API SL/JASO MA2 is fine.

I use SAE 5W-40 (API SN/JASO MA2) in my bike, but it's not the Advantec Ultimate. That stuff is ridiculously expensive. I use Motul 104087 100% Synthetic Engine Oil. It's $49.99 for four liters on Amazon. The BMW stuff is $70 for four liters.

For the modern bikes it's best to go with the higher API ratings as it's better for the emissions control stuff.

API Engine Oil Classification

Of course, y'all are free to use whatever you want :grin:

 

[NoelCP]

Are you sure it has no molybdenum? Cause the tests on it show fairly high levels of it. Especially compared to Liqui-Moly.
Look at the line with the molybdenum ppm in the test sheet attached under the heading with 85,000 miles. This is Castrol. That is about the same amount as Shell Rotella T-6!

I read your thread here and *hoped* the Castrol 5w-40 Synthetic 4T Motorcycle Oil was going to the same as I could not find an MSDS on it specifically when I bought the oil off Amazon:

https://www.bmwsporttouring.com/top...m/topic/93431-experience-experimenting-with-oil/?do=findComment&comment=1030847

In this thread you stated "Sample date of 9/1/2019 is the most recent. Castrol Racing 4T 10-40", and the BS report stated moly level of 2ppm. But this isn't the same oil anyway it would appear.

But beyond all of this I think there is reason to believe there is a bit of market manipulation going on by BMW in this regard, specifically $18.98 per liter's worth on Amazon! I read that entire thread and that is the impression I came away with. Clearly people with wet heads are running Castrol 5w-40 4T Syn Moto oil and aren't chiming in with stories of early demise, and this of course supports the conspiracy theory developed in the above mentioned thread. And in the example you just provided from David, he's got over 85K miles on his 2015 RT and has had the similar levels of moly in all of his blackstone tests and their comment says wear levels are hunky dory at 85K+ miles. Clearly no one here, or maybe anywhere, can state with any conviction what amount of moly, and what specific formulation of moly, might do in your engine coatings.

Anyway, thanks for pointing this out, be it relevant or not is anyone's guess. If I notice poorer shifting on this first trial of using Castrol I will switch back to LM which was fine, as was the Adv Ultimate I used up until my last change done w/ LM. But I'll be shocked if there is any perceivable difference in shifting when using the oil meeting the same wt, API/JASO rating as the oil I've been using I just see no way, no mechanism, for that to happen beyond subjective nocebo. LM certainly made no difference in anything perceivable over Advantec Ultimate, but I've read people's comments who think otherwise. I'll find out soon hopefully when the snow/ice clears from my egress.

Much ado about a conspiracy... https://www.bmwsporttouring.com/top...m/topic/93431-experience-experimenting-with-oil/?do=findComment&comment=1031347

And apparently BMW Advantec Ultimate has double or triple the moly that Castrol 4T Syn Motorcycle Oil has. Oil threads ya gotta love em : https://www.bmwsporttouring.com/top...m/topic/93431-experience-experimenting-with-oil/?do=findComment&comment=1032495

 

[realshelby]

I read your thread here and *hoped* the Castrol 5w-40 Synthetic 4T Motorcycle Oil was going to the same as I could not find an MSDS on it specifically when I bought the oil off Amazon:

https://www.bmwsporttouring.com/top...m/topic/93431-experience-experimenting-with-oil/?do=findComment&comment=1030847

In this thread you stated "Sample date of 9/1/2019 is the most recent. Castrol Racing 4T 10-40", and the BS report stated moly level of 2ppm. But this isn't the same oil anyway it would appear.

I also stated, if I recall correctly without going back, that I mistakenly said Castrol Racing! I meant Mobil 1. Which I posted later. My mistake, but the Blackstone reports don't lie.

I completely agree that the Moly isn't a factor, and BMW is clueless about their oil specifications. There is a Blackstone report another member sent in on NEW BMW oil and it had quite a lot of Moly in it too ( that is important because BMW WARNS against using any oil with molybdenum in it!).

 

[NoelCP]

I completely agree that the Moly isn't a factor, and BMW is clueless about their oil specifications. There is a Blackstone report another member sent in on NEW BMW oil and it had quite a lot of Moly in it too ( that is important because BMW WARNS against using any oil with molybdenum in it!).

Actually we just don't know what to make of it. It's at least theoretically possible certain moly containing additives might cause problems so to CTA they just did the blanket 'no moly' statement. From the BS report metallic molybdenum causes no signifcant problems at these levels it's in their own oil to the tune of almost 300% of the quantity found in Castrol Power1 4T Synthetic Motorcycle Oil--I linked that BS report on Advantec Ultimate in the above comment.

 

[PatM55]

They should return to the old phrasing, do not use oils with "energy conserving" on the api logo.