Stop-n-go traffic??? Wouldn't go lower than third???

Question: Why are you in third in stop-n-go traffic in the first place??? I don't think I ever get out of 2nd in stop-n-go and I only hit 2nd rarely... First gear would be my choice in traffic.

Not judging... just asking a question...

 

Did you try changing gears with the engine shut off? If you can, then there may be indication of clutch not disengaging..

Did you try "lifting" the shift lever just a bit? Possibly the mechanism needs a little cleaning?

 

Uncle Mark -- In my effort to engage in a lower gear I tried to upshift, after the opposite would not work, and then hopefully come back down to the gear I wanted. There would be no way I could have gained enough speed in stop-and-go traffic to justify 3rd gear. Sorry for not explaining the situation more clearly for you.

cfell - I did a maintenance cleaning and tightening in the spring but it may warrant another look as I know the linkage is sensitive to vibration and road debris. I also tried changing gears with the engine off but still no luck. Also, in cases where a gear is a little difficult to find, I usually let out the clutch while lifting the gear lever until it pops in place, but this procedure did nothing either.

So my situation seems odd to you guys as it does to me, but thank you both for replying.

Mugz

 

I hope you are not getting close to a clutch spline failure. I didn't think K bikes have that many problems with splines though.

 

It is important to remember that this is a dry clutch and when the clutch is fully disengaged all gears stop spinning in sync. Try to preload the shifter and only pull the clutch in slightly when down shifting. If still stuck in gear you can usually release into a lower gear by disengaging the clutch, give the engine a slight rev and down shift. Works for me 100% of the time. Do NOT force the shifter.

 

Uncle Mark -- In my effort to engage in a lower gear I tried to upshift, after the opposite would not work, and then hopefully come back down to the gear I wanted. There would be no way I could have gained enough speed in stop-and-go traffic to justify 3rd gear. Sorry for not explaining the situation more clearly for you.

cfell - I did a maintenance cleaning and tightening in the spring but it may warrant another look as I know the linkage is sensitive to vibration and road debris. I also tried changing gears with the engine off but still no luck. Also, in cases where a gear is a little difficult to find, I usually let out the clutch while lifting the gear lever until it pops in place, but this procedure did nothing either.

So my situation seems odd to you guys as it does to me, but thank you both for replying.

Mugz

Hmmm... I have an '06 and have yet to have that happen... I do find a false neutral between 2nd and 3rd... but I have slid to a stop in fourth and down'd to first without much of an effort...

Couple of things tho... air in the line. If you did maintenance on it, this would be a good time to bleed it one more time. Air expands in heat, and there may be just enuf of a bubble to cause the issue of lack of disengagement. Water could do the same thing... I think. But there should be other issues associated with water contamination.

Also... clutch handle hard to squeeze? You have another LT to compare it to? A clutch that's hard to squeeze could signal clutch cylinder failure or a routing issue with the hydro cable heading to the tranny (partial pinched line).

As a side... know of an older bike that seemed to have a somewhat similar issue. But it worked itself out until it lunch boxed... About four pounds of metal teeth due to a shifter fork getting mildly confused as to which way to go. New tranny fixed it...

BigGeo has a good method... and I use it when she gets cranky... Soft talk will help too...

Just a couple of my thoughts...

 

While in stop-and-go traffic during the heat of the day I lost the ability to downshift to most of the lower gears. It was as if the trani decided to quit gradually as more and more gears could not be engaged when coming to yet another stop. The worst was when I could only go as low as 3rd. Luckily the flow of traffic increased which allowed all gears to come back to life.

So, is this caused by the 80W90 weight oil not able to cope with the higher temps, or is there something else erking in the box raring to show it's ugly head in the near future?

At one point I thought the clutch fluid was low enough to prevent full movement but you would think that, if that was the case, the symptoms would have continued.

So I would be interested to know if anyone else experienced this phenomenon, and what do you think should be done, besides parking it in the heat?

Mugz

That is a strange one. Nope, never had that happen. Was the clutch working OK? Fully disengaging?? It almost sounds like the clutch wasn't disengaging fully and was keeping pressure on the gears.

 

After you pull the front peg cover, tell us what you see in the shifter linkage arrangement. Sure sounds to me like shifter linkage is the problem.

 

Again, I appreciate all that replied! My thoughts are to do a clutch bleed as suggested but I wonder why it has never acted this way before and the last time I did a bleed was over a year ago. The linkage would also be suspect and will be inspected.

The clutch was working and now is working fine with no stiffness on the lever, and I tried the preload trick but it would not make a difference at the time.

Not sure why but the only reason I can see is the higher temp wich is why it came back to life once I was able to get back up to speeds.

I will let you know what I find with the linkage and bleed suggestion. Just hope it is not more serious but if it was, I would think I would not have been able to use it much longer.

Thanks to all...

Mugz

 

This very thing happened to me. Started by not wanting to downshift in lower gears. It would not happen every trip just now and then over a month or so. I could not find the problem then but did find it. The slave cylinder eventually failed and I had to replace the clutch. I reckon the downshifting problem was the beginning of the slave failing and leaking clutch fluid into the clutch.

Hope yours is something a lot simpler that a clutch job. Good luck.

 

It is important to remember that this is a dry clutch and when the clutch is fully disengaged all gears stop spinning in sync. Try to preload the shifter and only pull the clutch in slightly when down shifting. If still stuck in gear you can usually release into a lower gear by disengaging the clutch, give the engine a slight rev and down shift. Works for me 100% of the time. Do NOT force the shifter.

I agree with BigGeo on this...I was in Colo. Springs in heavy traffic when suddenly I couldn't get the bike to down shift...before I began to panic I did exactly what is cited above...brought her back to life and she downshifted enough to get me going. I usually try to downshift before coming to a stop if I can...this event happened when I did not down shift before my stop and suddenly the light changed and I was trying to downshift quickly as not to get runnned ovvver. Hope this helps.

 

I agree with BigGeo on this...I was in Colo. Springs in heavy traffic when suddenly I couldn't get the bike to down shift...before I began to panic I did exactly what is cited above...brought her back to life and she downshifted enough to get me going. I usually try to downshift before coming to a stop if I can...this event happened when I did not down shift before my stop and suddenly the light changed and I was trying to downshift quickly as not to get runnned ovvver. Hope this helps.

I agree that downshifting before coming to a stop would the preferred plan of action. At times such as the situation I was in, you do not have the time or space to carry this out.

I would concern myself for keeping the clutch disengaged (lever all the way to the grip) so I wanted to find neutral to relieve the slave cylinder. Doing that meant that I would not be able to go back down to 1st but I could find 2nd. Travelled in 2nd for a short spert as long as traffic would allow, and then could not find neutral so it was getting predominately worse. Again all the gears were accessible once I was able to get away from traffic and get back to normal running temps but I cannot see how this is heat related.

For an 06 with 24K it would seem to be too soon to have the slave cylinder fail. Could it be that I do have air in the system, not sufficient enough to effect normal operation but enough to cause this problem and actually putting more stress on the slave? I noticed that the last time the clutch was bled over a year and 8K ago, the lever felt softer but I discounted this since all gears were operational. If there is air in the system, why would it not be evident at all times?

Still perplexed...

Mugz

 

HI all,

I have EXACTLY the same problem - started last night on a short 100mile hop to my parents house. I hit some traffic, by the time I slowed to a stop before filtering through, I couldn't change down from 4th .... then when I finally got it down to 1st I couldn't change up! Managed to limp the bike the last 6miles to my Dad's house.

After a trawl through the forums last night, I stripped the left hand foot peg hanger and stripped, cleaned and greased the linkage... it now changes better than it did on the way down here last night, but not as it should or was doing before last night!!!

The fluid level in the clutch reservoir is currently unchanged...

Any help or suggestions greatly appreciated... by the way.... my bike is a '99 LT with 60k miles on it...

Thanks, Andy

 

Mugszy, try switching to synthetic 75w-140 at your next FD and transmission maintenance. I suspect that cleaning and adjusting the shift linkage will also help.
Personally I have no qualms staying in first gear with the clutch pulled while at a red light so I can safely get away in a hurry if I need to. It bothers me when people I ride with stay in neutral for the duration of a red light and fumble to find the 1st gear when the light changes and traffic behind them get impatient. So far I have not had issues with the clutch or gear box at 54k miles.

Andy, with 60K miles on a 99 I would seriously consider replacing the slave cylinder and drilling the weeping (drain) hole at the same time. Once it starts leaking it may be too late for your clutch. Also read up on replacing the hydraulic lines (clutch and f/r brakes) if it has not been done yet. It may be time. The mileage is not the big issue, but the years are, and rubber seals and lines do go bad. An ounce of prevention...

 

thanks for that zippy....was kinda thinking that was what i was gonna have to do.... I will double check the linkage and make sure there is no excessive play in the links....i changed all the FD and transmission oil to heavy duty shockproof oil a few thousand miles ago so that should be fine....here's hoping it is the linkage.... Planning to replace the bike with a newer model LT soon!

 

Like Gilles said, change the oil to synthetic.

First fluid change on mine I filled the transmission with synthetic, no problems to date.

By the way, if you are careful you can shift the LT both up and down without using the clutch. Don't rush things or try forcing it. If you can do it without grinding or crashing them, OK, if not, use the clutch. Might want to learn the technique on something a little lighter and more forgiving first.

 

My guess is linkage or shifter fork. Suggest stopping by your favorite BMW shop.

 

Like Gilles said, change the oil to synthetic.

First fluid change on mine I filled the transmission with synthetic, no problems to date.

By the way, if you are careful you can shift the LT both up and down without using the clutch. Don't rush things or try forcing it. If you can do it without grinding or crashing them, OK, if not, use the clutch. Might want to learn the technique on something a little lighter and more forgiving first.

Changing to synthetic shouldn't hurt anything, but the LT transmission does not NEED synthetic oil to shift properly. Something else is wrong here and needs to be found and corrected. Shift linkage, clutch fluid, etc/

 

Changing to synthetic shouldn't hurt anything, but the LT transmission does not NEED synthetic oil to shift properly. Something else is wrong here and needs to be found and corrected. Shift linkage, clutch fluid, etc/

You are correct.

Synthetic does make them shift smoother.

 

You are correct.

Synthetic does make them shift smoother.

It may, but no guarantee. The dealer put synthetic in my tranny and FD at the 12K service and I could detect no improvement in shifting at all. I will likely go back to dino oil at the 24K change and add just a touch of the moly additive. With changes as frequently as I plan (12K) and no plans to ride in really cold weather, synthetic offers virtually no advantage.

And, no, I am not anti-synthetic at all. I use it in all of my four-wheeled vehicles, but I drive them at temps well below zero and it is at temp extremes (either cold or hot), where synthetic really shines. In the range I ride my LT (30 to 100F), synthetic is a waste of money for a liquid cooled engine, tranny and FD.

 

Been so busy that I haven't had a chance to get back to the bike or this post (which I thought was lost in the dungeon of the forum). Where it is still puzzling is in the conditions that were at present at the time. In some way it seems to indicate that the problem arose due to the heat conditions which may point to the oil not able to stand the higher heat. Synthetic may be the fix it that is the case but I will still need to verify that clutch fluid is not low (if it is then I would think it should show signs of escaping somewhere, which it does not), and there is no air in the system. It will soon be time to do an annual maintenance so it should all be clearer afterwards... The best news is that it has not given me any indication of repeating the symptom.

Mugz

 

Been so busy that I haven't had a chance to get back to the bike or this post (which I thought was lost in the dungeon of the forum). Where it is still puzzling is in the conditions that were at present at the time. In some way it seems to indicate that the problem arose due to the heat conditions which may point to the oil not able to stand the higher heat. Synthetic may be the fix it that is the case but I will still need to verify that clutch fluid is not low (if it is then I would think it should show signs of escaping somewhere, which it does not), and there is no air in the system. It will soon be time to do an annual maintenance so it should all be clearer afterwards... The best news is that it has not given me any indication of repeating the symptom.

Mugz

I'm glad it hasn't recurred. Certainly is a strange one. Even standard gear oil will take some pretty wicked temps for a fairly long time. Oil doesn't fail in a binary manner as it gets hot. It degrades over time and fails fairly slowly unless you get it REALLY hot. If it is heat related, I would much sooner think the issue is moisture in your clutch fluid that boiled from the heat forming bubbles. This could have made your clutch not disengage completely which would make shifting much more difficult.

 

I have a new 09 with 3,300 miles on it. While I have not experienced the same issue, every once in a while when I am in neutral just getting going, I can not get the bike into first gear. This usually occurs when i first pull it out of the garage getting ready to go for a ride I have to push the shifter down several times or "double clutch" it until it engages. When it does engage, there is just the normal tranny sound. No major Clunk or grinding. Once under way, she shifts up and down just fine.

I am still under warranty obviously, but would be interested in any thoughts from this brain center.

Thx.....

 

I have a new 09 with 3,300 miles on it. While I have not experienced the same issue, every once in a while when I am in neutral just getting going, I can not get the bike into first gear. This usually occurs when i first pull it out of the garage getting ready to go for a ride I have to push the shifter down several times or "double clutch" it until it engages. When it does engage, there is just the normal tranny sound. No major Clunk or grinding. Once under way, she shifts up and down just fine.

I am still under warranty obviously, but would be interested in any thoughts from this brain center.

Thx.....

It is very common to not have the gears exactly in-line when trying to engage 1st. The solution is to release the clutch lever slowly while pressing down on the shifter until it engages. You do not want to force the shifter.

Mugz

 

I'm glad it hasn't recurred. Certainly is a strange one. Even standard gear oil will take some pretty wicked temps for a fairly long time. Oil doesn't fail in a binary manner as it gets hot. It degrades over time and fails fairly slowly unless you get it REALLY hot. If it is heat related, I would much sooner think the issue is moisture in your clutch fluid that boiled from the heat forming bubbles. This could have made your clutch not disengage completely which would make shifting much more difficult.

Thanks Voyager, that makes sense, if nothing else, a proper bleeding of the clutch would not hurt and may very well be what is called for here.

Mugz