[Fast1]

The drive shaft is basically a u-joint - welded on each end... and they can fail... but they can fail at 50,000 miles or 20,000 miles or at 300,000 miles ... lol.. I plan on checking mine every 24k and seeing if it has any notchyness to it's action and if it's loose.. then I'll replace. I had a u-joint starting to go bad on my ST1300 a few years back at 48,000 miles.. some have had them go out sooner but that's pretty rare and some have never had them go out but will replace at 100k.

GS bikes are exposed to more water and extreme angles so it does seem they would be more prone to having issues.

The only issue with your thought process is that BMW may have/or did upgrade the cardan shaft with revisions/improvements. Time will tell what actually is taking place and what caused/forced BWM to initiate the dealer extended 12K service interval/check procedure and 36K mandatory replacement (unlimited miles).

 

[Scott9999]

Umm, I guess that I'm the evidence that there's always an ignorant one in the bunch, so .... 🤔

Can anyone expound upon what "Check cardan shaft with ISTA-led test method" means? Just make sure it's tight in the driveshaft gear ends, no shake, rock or roll when manipulating it by hand? I've had this (and the final drive & transmission) apart on my old/previous R1100RT-P, but that's about it.

 

[Fast1]

Umm, I guess that I'm the evidence that there's always an ignorant one in the bunch, so .... 🤔

Can anyone expound upon what "Check cardan shaft with ISTA-led test method" means? Just make sure it's tight in the driveshaft gear ends, no shake, rock or roll when manipulating it by hand? I've had this (and the final drive & transmission) apart on my old/previous R1100RT-P, but that's about it.

@Mellow provided this in post #43 which is most likely the procedure, or at least that which is followed if the drain retrofit is installed (if it hasn't been done) as is required by the most recent bulletin I provided.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2022/MC-10218351-9999.pdf

I am by no means advocating to avoid this issue from being checked by an authorized BWM dealership.

.

 

[Scott9999]

@Mellow provided this in post #43 which is most likely the procedure, or at least that which is followed if the drain retrofit is installed (if it hasn't been done) as is required by the most recent bulletin I provided.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2022/MC-10218351-9999.pdf

I am by no means advocating to avoid this issue from being checked by an authorized BWM dealership.

.

"Test the driveshaft for damage according to repair instruction “33 73 002 – Checking Cardan shaft”. "

Yeah, I didn't even check my DVD manual (i.e. it takes a long time to boot up from the DVD player, painfully slow, but the info is there). Was kind of thinking out loud. However, thanks for highlighting the nhtsa documentation, once again.

re: check by a BMW dealership
My bike is just at 12K miles, and I'm certain the dealer (Long Beach) didn't bother to look at this two years ago when they did that 12K service early, so it's on my winter work list, for sure. I also doubt that there'll be any driveshaft problems (i.e. that would require service at the dealer), but obviously, the new spec calls for service (inspection & lubrication), so I'll do that. If I still own the bike at 36K miles, it'll go into a dealership to get the new driveshaft, but inspections will happen (and be documented, probably with dated photos) per BMW's service requirements. I see no reason to take it to a dealership for this inspection, and if I'm doing this every 12K miles, it's not something that's going to suddenly jump up and bite me in my ... ah ... BIKE'S, rear end, either. 🙃😉

edit/update:

"This test method is used to check the functional health of the driveshaft while installed in the vehicle and measures the vibrations of the rear-wheel flange to detect damage in universal joints or gearing. In the guided measurement procedure, the technician will drive the special speed sensor wheel with a cordless drill (see the list of approved models, below) across several speed ranges defined in the ISTA procedure. "

Yeah, I don't think I'll be doing THIS stuff. It'll be more of a "feel" and appearance thingy, for me.

 

[Mellow]

The only issue with your thought process is that BMW may have/or did upgrade the cardan shaft with revisions/improvements. Time will tell what actually is taking place and what caused/forced BWM to initiate the dealer extended 12K service interval/check procedure and 36K mandatory replacement (unlimited miles).

I really doubt they did or it would be a one-time replacement..

They theory - which is just speculation - is someone died due to a failure and the accountants weighed in the average number of miles and litigation/settlement costs and determined it was cheaper to offer a replacement at this interval than deal with another visit to the court system. Again, just speculation and I'd like to be wrong.

My bike will not go to a dealer unless there's a safety recall I can't perform as I care more about my bike and my safety than anyone at a dealership does and many times folks get bikes back with things missing or not tightened, etc... If I can't work on the bike I have myself, I'll get a diff bike from another manufacturer.

 

[Ultra54]

I wonder why the Goldwing doesn’t suffer from these type of issues.

 

[Fast1]

I also doubt that there'll be any driveshaft problems

Has your 2018 RT had the drain retrofit installed that is part of the SI 33 02 22 drain intall/service check mentioned in the bulletin? Reason being is that all further action identified in the bulletin can not commence until this is completed. Without the drain installed, rusting issues appear to accelerate to the cardan shaft/U-joints.

 

[Scott9999]

Has your 2018 RT had the drain retrofit installed that is part of the SI 33 02 22 drain intall/service check mentioned in the bulletin? Reason being is that all further action identified in the bulletin can not commence until this is completed. Without the drain installed, rusting issues appear to accelerate to the cardan shaft.

View attachment 184834

If it's not rusting, in good shape, why do I care. I don't do much submerged riding. Next time it's in the shop, I'll check recalls and advisories. Heck, it's a freaking 6 year old bike.

 

[The_real_hati]

Here is the confirmation the Australian contingent of this forum was (presumably) waiting for:

I had my '21 RT booked in for the drive shaft change (and some other maintenance items) as it is about to hit 60k kilometres (36k miles?)

My local (and only one in the state) BMW Motorrad service department knew about the recall, including spline lube and happily booked my bike in for the 19th. The very knowledgeable department manager said that they now inspect and lube at 20k and 40k and replace at 60k.Earlier if it looks warranted.

Someone above mentioned that they asked BMW Motorrad Australia and the answer was yes, but as far as I am aware this is the first replacement on due mileage down here.

As an icing on the cake, I was offered a nice Option 719 R9T as a loaner for the day. Love it

 

[Mellow]

I wonder why the Goldwing doesn’t suffer from these type of issues.

They probably do but it's very rare - most, if not all, Honda drive shaft bikes will typically use a u-joint attached to the output shaft of the transmission - then a SEPARATE drive shaft with gears on the end that attach to the rear pumpkin.

The BMW cardin shaft is half a u-joint attached at each end of the drive shaft so a single part vs Honda's 2 -part system.

The Honda approach puts the traditional u-joint near the transmission so very unlikely it will see exposure to moisture / dirt whereas the BMW approach puts one end of that shaft-u-joint in the area that may be exposed to the elements more - ergo - the resent recall we saw for GSs with vent holes and flapper valves.. they also probably have more vertical movement than the Honda bikes but I think the location is the big issue.

It looks like in the newer wings they did go with a 1 pc drive shaft w/u-joint at the transmission output shaft location. The connection at the rear of the bike is a male/female gear driven.

 

[alegerlotz]

The question above reminds me of something I encountered in the early 1990s. My wife drove a honda accord and I had a chevy S10 Blazer. I have always dealt with our vehicle service/repairs.

I took my Blazer in for some service and occasionally a service advisor would come out to the waiting room to discuss what needed to be done with someone's vehicle. e.g. "Your lower ball joints need replacement." The customer would usually complain about why these needed to be replaced with so few miles on it, etc... and be all pissed off.

I took my wife's honda is for service and the same thing happened, with the only exception being the reaction of the customers. In stead of being pissed off they seemed to just accept it. "I guess these things happen, at least we took care of it before something bad happened." Essentially the same issues at essentially the same time in the vehicles life.

Sometimes all of this is "perception". So do Goldwings have issues with their driveshafts? They probably do sometimes. Are all BMW driveshafts ready to explode? Probably not.

If you read the forums long enough and you can be convinced that your bike is a rolling house of cards with bad cam followers, drive shaft, final drive, etc... Or you can ride it, do the maintenance and repairs as needed and enjoy it. If it needs too much in the way of maintenance and repairs in your opinion, you can always try another brand instead and start the journey over again.

 

[Scott9999]

The question above reminds me of something I encountered in the early 1990s. My wife drove a honda accord and I had a chevy S10 Blazer. I have always dealt with our vehicle service/repairs.

I took my Blazer in for some service and occasionally a service advisor would come out to the waiting room to discuss what needed to be done with someone's vehicle. e.g. "Your lower ball joints need replacement." The customer would usually complain about why these needed to be replaced with so few miles on it, etc... and be all pissed off.

I took my wife's honda is for service and the same thing happened, with the only exception being the reaction of the customers. In stead of being pissed off they seemed to just accept it. "I guess these things happen, at least we took care of it before something bad happened." Essentially the same issues at essentially the same time in the vehicles life.

Sometimes all of this is "perception". So do Goldwings have issues with their driveshafts? They probably do sometimes. Are all BMW driveshafts ready to explode? Probably not.

If you read the forums long enough and you can be convinced that your bike is a rolling house of cards with bad cam followers, drive shaft, final drive, etc... Or you can ride it, do the maintenance and repairs as needed and enjoy it. If it needs too much in the way of maintenance and repairs in your opinion, you can always try another brand instead and start the journey over again.

Yep, I suppose that there are fewer Chevy S10 Blazer or Honda Accord forums, where owners massage every little idiosyncracy in the mechanics of the vehicle, and talk about every little detail, right down to individual parts, than BMW motorcycle forums. Most people put the key in the ignition, and just drive 'em, doing just enough service to stay within warranty. Beemer bike owners? Nahh... that'd be SO boring! 🙃😁🤣🤣

 

[Ultra54]

The question above reminds me of something I encountered in the early 1990s. My wife drove a honda accord and I had a chevy S10 Blazer. I have always dealt with our vehicle service/repairs.

I took my Blazer in for some service and occasionally a service advisor would come out to the waiting room to discuss what needed to be done with someone's vehicle. e.g. "Your lower ball joints need replacement." The customer would usually complain about why these needed to be replaced with so few miles on it, etc... and be all pissed off.

I took my wife's honda is for service and the same thing happened, with the only exception being the reaction of the customers. In stead of being pissed off they seemed to just accept it. "I guess these things happen, at least we took care of it before something bad happened." Essentially the same issues at essentially the same time in the vehicles life.

Sometimes all of this is "perception". So do Goldwings have issues with their driveshafts? They probably do sometimes. Are all BMW driveshafts ready to explode? Probably not.

If you read the forums long enough and you can be convinced that your bike is a rolling house of cards with bad cam followers, drive shaft, final drive, etc... Or you can ride it, do the maintenance and repairs as needed and enjoy it. If it needs too much in the way of maintenance and repairs in your opinion, you can always try another brand instead and start the journey over again.

My experience having owned 4 Wings from 81 to 2018 was no issues with the driveshaft. During the later part of that time I was active on forums and don’t recall an issue.
I really like my RT but it is curious to me that overall the shaft system is no more reliable than a good chain and sprocket. Yes it cleaner but it’s also harder to perform maintenance on or even detect an issue at a glance.
One positive is the replacement at 36k miles which you won’t get on a chain and sprocket.

 

[Sandancer]

All this talk of Goldwings makes me think of Yamaha’s FJR. I owned four of them between 2003 and 2021 and not once was there any talk of issues with the shaft drive. I don’t even recall it being included in the service schedule, though it must have needed the oil changing. But there are some good explanations here of where BMW differs from other manufacturers so I’m just saying.

 

[Stiggy]

I think that if the shaft stays rust free, it will last basically forever....

 

[MLW]

OK, time to open the eyes of fellow owners to prevent someone from potential getting injured due to a failure that a dealer may not be resolving for them.

View attachment 184828



View attachment 184829

Interesting, thanks.

I find it ESPECIALLY INTERESTING that it starts with a VIN check which seems to pretty consistently NOT show eligible vehicles as eligible.

Also, I think I would be OK asking my local dealer to inspect / regrease / drain plug, whatever my bike "under warranty" every 12K miles regardless of any other work being done or not done. That is how I read the issue and BMW's response to it. I would let the Service Manager and BMW Rep. explain what that isn't appropriate and thus covered.

 

[thehueg]

So are you indicating they couldn't find your bike being part of the recall via your VIN but somehow it qualified another way?

 

[MLW]

EXACTLY! (At least one other here reported same).

Cited Service Bulletin #, Service Manager checked with Rep.. Replacement approved!

 

[connectoid1]

Great weather here in Minnesota so I took my '15 RT with 26,000 miles in for an annual service. Dealer informed me I would get a new drive shaft at 36,000 miles and would inspect, test and lube the splines for free during this service. Way to go BMW!

 

[Fast1]

I really doubt they did or it would be a one-time replacement..

They theory - which is just speculation - is someone died due to a failure and the accountants weighed in the average number of miles and litigation/settlement costs and determined it was cheaper to offer a replacement at this interval than deal with another visit to the court system. Again, just speculation and I'd like to be wrong.

My bike will not go to a dealer unless there's a safety recall I can't perform as I care more about my bike and my safety than anyone at a dealership does and many times folks get bikes back with things missing or not tightened, etc... If I can't work on the bike I have myself, I'll get a diff bike from another manufacturer.

At this point, without any legitimate proof one way or another, I tend to believe the NHTA mandated the servicing/replacement specifications of the cardan shaft by BMW vs a team of bean counters in a corporate setting. Seems very similar to the aviation industry and the FAA from my past work experience..Time will tell.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/documents/mvdefectsandrecalls_808795.pdf

"Manufacturers voluntarily initiate many of these recalls, while others are either influenced by NHTSA investigations or ordered by NHTSA via the courts. If a safety defect is discovered, the manufacturer must notify NHTSA, as well as vehicle or equipment owners, dealers, and distributors. The manufacturer is then required to remedy the problem at no charge to the owner. NHTSA is responsible for monitoring the manufacturer’s corrective action to ensure successful completion of the recall campaign."
.