Tire Temperatures: I need to know - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 53 Old Aug 4th, 2019, 6:21 pm Thread Starter
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Tire Temperatures: I need to know

What are the dangerous parameter of tire temperatures for an RT? 2018 wethead

120/70 and 180/55

If someone has a specs from the Dunlop Co. I would appreciate it. I am running Smart III Dunnies


What about the PSI/s What would be the high danger



Anecdotal: once coming back to the West coast from the East, while crossing the desert in triple digits, I check the air on my GT rear tire and it was 56psi...ignorant at the same time as afraid, I lowered the psi to 42...and I always wondered how hot was too hot on the tire temp? cause, I tell ya, that tire was so hot I couldn't touch it

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post #2 of 53 Old Aug 4th, 2019, 7:25 pm
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

FWIW my Smartire system (discontinued) alerts at 176 F for a hot tire. I have never seen that but I have seen 165 F on BT-020 on my LT on a hot summer day.

As far as High pressure danger I don't think you will see that if you start out with the correct cold pressure and I even run mine a bit higher than BMW recommends. I run 47 -48 cold and have seen 57 as my highest pressure during a hot day (stock BMW rec is 42).

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post #3 of 53 Old Aug 4th, 2019, 11:09 pm
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

For an RT 48 cold is high. Why do you think you have figured it out over the BMW engineers for the bike? You reduce your contact patch, change tire temp parameters and certainly change handling. If you set cold temps to stock pressure recommendations you should be okay in the desert. Though the heat and high pressure will let you see tire wear from gas stop to gas stop. I'm serious, to know what advantages you experience with such high pressures.

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post #4 of 53 Old Aug 5th, 2019, 8:57 am
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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For an RT 48 cold is high. Why do you think you have figured it out over the BMW engineers for the bike? You reduce your contact patch, change tire temp parameters and certainly change handling. If you set cold temps to stock pressure recommendations you should be okay in the desert. Though the heat and high pressure will let you see tire wear from gas stop to gas stop. I'm serious, to know what advantages you experience with such high pressures.
If you are referring to me it is an LT and for 15 years the LT community has run 42/48 over the recommended 36/42 as the lower pressures resulted in very early feathering of the tires. The tires all have a max pressure cold that is higher than what I run so i don't exceed that. It does provide a slightly harsher ride but after 16 rears and 9 fronts I am still happy with it.
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post #5 of 53 Old Aug 5th, 2019, 11:22 am
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

My apologies, I thought we were talking RT bikes. I do know the heavier LT uses higher pressures by various riders.

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post #6 of 53 Old Aug 5th, 2019, 11:31 am
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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If you are referring to me it is an LT and for 15 years the LT community has run 42/48 over the recommended 36/42 as the lower pressures resulted in very early feathering of the tires. The tires all have a max pressure cold that is higher than what I run so i don't exceed that. It does provide a slightly harsher ride but after 16 rears and 9 fronts I am still happy with it.
Like Beech, I am confused by your posting. The question is aimed fair and square at RT riders, not LT bikes. You have just muddied the waters.
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post #7 of 53 Old Aug 5th, 2019, 11:36 am
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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Originally Posted by wethead View Post
What are the dangerous parameter of tire temperatures for an RT? 2018 wethead

120/70 and 180/55

If someone has a specs from the Dunlop Co. I would appreciate it. I am running Smart III Dunnies


What about the PSI/s What would be the high danger



Anecdotal: once coming back to the West coast from the East, while crossing the desert in triple digits, I check the air on my GT rear tire and it was 56psi...ignorant at the same time as afraid, I lowered the psi to 42...and I always wondered how hot was too hot on the tire temp? cause, I tell ya, that tire was so hot I couldn't touch it
All modern MC tires are made to cope the kind of pressures (paraphrased from reading AlanColes comments) you will have in triple digit temps on hot pavement provided you started in the ball park w/ your cold tire pressure as mentioned. My record for tire abuse is 3h, riding uphill for the last hour out of Las Vegas to St George UT at 111-112.9 upon arrival in St George.

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post #8 of 53 Old Aug 5th, 2019, 12:21 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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All modern MC tires are made to cope the kind of pressures (paraphrased from reading AlanColes comments) you will have in triple digit temps on hot pavement provided you started in the ball park w/ your cold tire pressure as mentioned. My record for tire abuse is 3h, riding uphill for the last hour out of Las Vegas to St George UT at 111-112.9 upon arrival in St George.
Noel,
one of the things I find precarious about tire pressure crossing the desert is that you can sometimes experience as much as 30 deg changes in temp between night/day.

Once I posted about this on a GT forum and there were some interesting posts about the physics of pressure and temperature.

But consider: if you start out of a motel at 4am (say from Tucson) and the temp is 68 deg. by the time you get to Yuma (I recall once it was 118). Then, there must be a discrepancy of the starting at recommended pressure, sure there not be? I must admit, I hid in a motel A/C room that day and humbly accepted my stand: 'flock riding on this sheety temp'.
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post #9 of 53 Old Aug 5th, 2019, 3:52 pm
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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Noel,
one of the things I find precarious about tire pressure crossing the desert is that you can sometimes experience as much as 30 deg changes in temp between night/day.
Sure when I left Big Pine CA is was pretty cool, around 58F I think. 3h later we hit 111, and then up to 112.9 for 3h, uphill, in direct sun the pavement must have been 170F! But everything was fine and TPC's temperature compensation kept displayed pressures exactly where they were at 58F. I guess they knew the formula for temperatureressure relationships eh? As well as BMW understanding how to do temp compensation correctly and consistently I believe tire makers know all about what sorts of conditions their tires will be called upon to perform in and design them to accommodate. By the time you get to extreme high temps (118-130F) all bets might be off because no sane person would find themselves riding in those conditions anyway unless they were fleeing something

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post #10 of 53 Old Aug 5th, 2019, 5:35 pm
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

Automotive tires pressure recommendations made my vehicle manufacturers are not the Law. They are a compromise between comfort, longevity, traction, and damage resilience.

Remember Firestone tires on the Ford Explorers? Firestone told Ford to run more air, but Ford didn't like the harsher ride.

We motorcyclists can do the same, tailor our air pressures for what we value more: tread wear, traction, or comfort. If you stay above the vehicle manufacturers recommendation but below the tire manufacturers maximum you should at least be safe.

I can remember adding more air to my tires until they stopped gaining pressures with temperature. So by adding ten percent more air, temps were reduced and hot tire air pressure would stabilize.

https://www.cycleworld.com/almost-ev...ire-pressures/
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post #11 of 53 Old Aug 5th, 2019, 6:38 pm
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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Like Beech, I am confused by your posting. The question is aimed fair and square at RT riders, not LT bikes. You have just muddied the waters.
No the LT part was to answer Beech's comment about 48 being high for an RT. The original poster was asking about tire Temperatures and that was offered in my first post with some corresponding pressure deltas I experienced along with the actual tire temps. Temps are independent of the motorcycle. I will stop muddying the waters now.
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post #12 of 53 Old Aug 5th, 2019, 8:28 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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I guess they knew the formula for temperatureressure relationships eh? As well as BMW understanding how to do temp compensation correctly and consistently I believe tire makers know all about what sorts of conditions their tires will be called upon to perform in and design them to accommodate.

Noel,
I am gonna have to be in discordance with you on this part my brother, and I tell ya why bud: My GT used to pull the same trick: it would stay on the temp I took off with. Other people also told me as you: that BMW magic was working to calculate a compensation of volume for the increase in heat.

But I got off the GT one day in the desert when I stopped believing in magic and sure enough, my rear tire was not at 42 like the BMW magicians claimed via TPM, but it was actually 56psi on my 'reality-check' air gauge. The tire was so hot, I couldn't touch it.

Other Beemer I have had seem to go up by a couple of lbs given desert heat, or read a couple lbs under my gauge reading upon take off. The GT was one to stay put pretty much.



I just spoke with a Dunlop Corp. guy who claim "we don't like to see your tires above 50psi"; though he refuses to give me temperature danger zone: "we don't publish that kind of information" said the Corp worm in regard to my request for temperature parameters.

You can betchar booties I am gonna be checking my tires more frequently in the hellish desert temp and will lower the psi as needed to a little below 50. The Corp guy also told me the 56psi I experience was definitely an extreme case which he did not appeared to be to fond off.

I think the best thing to do when travelling in and out of different temps or altitudes is to check your tires often and compensate...I wish I could tell you by how much, but I yet to find any empirical data on the issue, so I am gonna be doing it for myself by 'feel'.


BTW: What da heeck are you doing in Pine Valley? are you trying to suffocate your self to death in the Valley of the dead...dead air anyways...like none...I bet that's what Mars is like: no air to breath, its all burnt.

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post #13 of 53 Old Aug 6th, 2019, 9:44 am
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

Quote:
Originally Posted by wethead View Post
What are the dangerous parameter of tire temperatures for an RT? 2018 wethead

120/70 and 180/55

If someone has a specs from the Dunlop Co. I would appreciate it. I am running Smart III Dunnies


What about the PSI/s What would be the high danger



Anecdotal: once coming back to the West coast from the East, while crossing the desert in triple digits, I check the air on my GT rear tire and it was 56psi...ignorant at the same time as afraid, I lowered the psi to 42...and I always wondered how hot was too hot on the tire temp? cause, I tell ya, that tire was so hot I couldn't touch it
1. Using the ideal gas law, PV = nRT, if the air in the tire started at 59 degrees and 42 psi and the pressure went up due to the temperature increase, that would mean the air in the tire went up to 210 degrees. Hot indeed!

2. In such conditions one is indeed faced with a dilemma. Tires (on aircraft in particular) have been known to blow because of overheating. On the other hand letting air out of the tire will allow more flex which will increase the heat generated by the tire. I guess what I would advocate is slowing down in such situations to reduce the heat generated by the tires.

Bob Stewart
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post #14 of 53 Old Aug 6th, 2019, 9:58 am
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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But I got off the GT one day in the desert when I stopped believing in magic and sure enough, my rear tire was not at 42 like the BMW magicians claimed via TPM, but it was actually 56psi on my 'reality-check' air gauge. The tire was so hot, I couldn't touch it.
I think the reason BMW does a temperature calculation in the TPM system is to have the system serve as a leak detector. Tire pressure will indeed rise as temperature rises. The temperature compensation adjusts the indicated pressure to show, with the present amount of air in the tire, what the tire pressure would be at a standard temperature.

The value of this is that if the tire has a leak, even though the gauge pressure at a higher temperature is higher than what was originally set, the indicated pressure will show a decrease to alert the rider that there is a leak.

Alternatively, as in less extreme examples of your situation, when the temperature and actual tire pressure rise, the "corrected" indicated pressure won't tempt riders to let air out of their tires when they shouldn't.

Ride safe (and cool!)

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post #15 of 53 Old Aug 6th, 2019, 12:08 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

I just as soon have a TPM that gives me the 'real-time' pressure and let me decide what to do.

I am not sure I either thoroughly understand the motive, the math, nor the purpose as to why the TPM on my RT does not read the actual psi. Then again, I been called dumb more than once.

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post #16 of 53 Old Aug 6th, 2019, 12:18 pm
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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I just as soon have a TPM that gives me the 'real-time' pressure and let me decide what to do..

The tire temperature can get very high while rolling on the road. If it is not corrected for temperature, then you would see abnormally high pressures. Some might think to stop and bleed some psi off. That would be a bad idea...



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post #17 of 53 Old Aug 6th, 2019, 12:32 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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The tire temperature can get very high while rolling on the road. If it is not corrected for temperature, then you would see abnormally high pressures. Some might think to stop and bleed some psi off. That would be a bad idea...



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Why would that be a bad idea, I am wondering.

In the case I mentioned earlier, when my GT TPM was showing normal 42, and my digital gauge showed 56, I noted the tire was extremely hot and I stopped for a while...parked the bike in a shaded area.

If according to Dunlop rep, they don't want to see psi higher that 50, it would appear that if your 'real' psi goes over 50 you SHOULD take some air out--and become cognizant of temp. You can always put the air back in if you happen to run into an iceberg and your 'real' temp TPM shows you are going below 42.

The only circumstance in which I can imagine any of this would be: early am, leaving a motel after having riden in triple digit...but you should always check your psi before you dig out of a motel in the am. If for not any other reason that in case some knucklehead let the air out of your tire during the night. That has never happen to me on the road, but it did once on another setting.

The thing is: Dumflop does not release info on temp safety parameter for tires. I now have a TPM coming that does display tire temp, but I have no idea where the benchmark for safety would be.

My OP is an inquiry for safety margins on temp and psi. That is what I am interested in.
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post #18 of 53 Old Aug 6th, 2019, 1:01 pm
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

I would like to see what the pressure and temperature swing is with using nitrogen.

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post #19 of 53 Old Aug 6th, 2019, 1:45 pm
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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I just as soon have a TPM that gives me the 'real-time' pressure and let me decide what to do.

I am not sure I either thoroughly understand the motive, the math, nor the purpose as to why the TPM on my RT does not read the actual psi. Then again, I been called dumb more than once.
God help you my friend with 'deciding what to do' especially if you remove air due to high pressures associated w/ tire temp! It's real simple--temperature compensation lets the rider IMMEDIATELY see when they have loss of VOLUME, which is what happens in a leak. If you remove air when the tire is hot good luck KNOWING when you've had a slow leak. And as mentioned, you take a tire w/ a high temp pressure of 56, remove air to hit 42psi, and now your tire heats up much faster! Again--these tires are made to cope w/ real world riding conditions. Temperature compensation is a super useful asset as long as you understand what's happening.

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post #20 of 53 Old Aug 6th, 2019, 2:05 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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God help you my friend with 'deciding what to do' especially if you remove air due to high pressures associated w/ tire temp! It's real simple--temperature compensation lets the rider IMMEDIATELY see when they have loss of VOLUME, which is what happens in a leak. If you remove air when the tire is hot good luck KNOWING when you've had a slow leak. And as mentioned, you take a tire w/ a high temp pressure of 56, remove air to hit 42psi, and now your tire heats up much faster! Again--these tires are made to cope w/ real world riding conditions. Temperature compensation is a super useful asset as long as you understand what's happening.
I get the caveat Noel,
There are two maybe three precautionary actions I plan to take:

One is to get off the road because lowering to 42 and then getting back on a pavement that made my tire pressure go up to 56 doesn't make sense.

Two, I have now the juice called Ride-On inside both of my tires which from previous experiences using this juice (when I owned bike without TPM) it works really well--too well sometimes you can travel with a nail in your tire and not know it. So a Ride-On user should check tires carefully.

Three, I am installing a Hawkshead TPM so I will have two gadgets that would notify me should my tire pressure get to below acceptable levels.

NOTE: I have checked of the effect of Ride-On juice on the BMW TPM and its null. That is because, unlike the GL, the Beemer TPM are coated with some crap that prevents the infiltration of Ride-On material.

On TEMPERATURE COMPENSATION EFFECT: that you speak of, I am going with the perspective that 'real world conditions' do not imply 113 degree riding at 90 miles per hour on a 180/55 sneaker; moreover, when this tire get to the point that you cannot even touch it and its psi goes above 50-52, I am gonna act on the side of precaution and prevention rather than trust the assumed 'compensation' you are talking about...which BTW, as I said: "I don not understand".

the 'compensation' being made by the gadget designed by BMW to give you a psi reading, is not what is 'really' happening to your tire if the tire becomes too hot and falls apart in the middle of a ride for being at a temperature state which some TPM config arranges to calculate your original psi was 42.

One of us is not thinking this through accurately....then again, it could be neither of us because we don't really have the empirical data to illustrate the danger zone in the correlation of psi/temp. I still don't really know if my 56psi GT (which was hot as hiell) was at a critical temperature or not. Nor, do I know what is the desirable temp/psi optimum for tire max efficacy. In my quest to find these data, Dunlop has dissed me.

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post #21 of 53 Old Aug 6th, 2019, 2:53 pm
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

When you did your math on temp changes vs pressure changes did you use degrees Kelvin? The formula is intended for that. This article gives a great detailed discussion on the issue and even has a handy chart.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_inflation_pressure
I think you are going down a path that hopefully few will follow. Seems dangerous to me.

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post #22 of 53 Old Aug 6th, 2019, 3:32 pm
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

Pick up a non contact thermometer and you can stop and spot check the temperature of the tire anytime. I wish Smartire had kept making the bike version as it gives actual pressure, actual temperature and a "delta pressure" from cold. I have found enough sensor units to keep mine going on my bike for a long time to come.

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post #23 of 53 Old Aug 6th, 2019, 4:23 pm
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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...we don't really have the empirical data to illustrate the danger zone in the correlation of psi/temp.
I certainly don't know at what point pressure and/or temperature exceeds what the tire can handle. I do fully believe tire manufacturers are fully aware of where their tires will find themselves, and build them accordingly, lest they be liable for all sorts of liability claims if their tires were to blow on day time highs in a good part of our southwest. When was the last time you read, heard, etc anyone telling you not to drive on the road because your tire may blow on hot day? Never heard my 66y.

I already know the tire is bloody hot riding on pavement at 112.9F for 3h in direct high-noon sunshine. But I assumed, and as it turned out rightly so, there was no problem. Happens every day of the week and twice on Sundays and people ARE NOT pulling over and removing air. Plus, for me personally the odds of finding me in that sort of temperature is almost zero. I get up at the CoD to avoid any kind of warmth! So really, what matters most, is I immediately can see if my tire is leaking air no matter what the temp from -20 to +115, and trying to figure that out when you make adjustments to the standard 'cold tire adjusted to 68F pressure'? good luck having a clue if you have a leak! That is the value of seeing 42R 36F and indeed I've seen that, while riding as I keep TPC displayed always, a very slow leak of a few PSI. Pulled over, pulled out a construction staple and repaired it. Invaluable!

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post #24 of 53 Old Aug 6th, 2019, 4:46 pm
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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I would like to see what the pressure and temperature swing is with using nitrogen.


The type of gas is not a factor. The research and the industry shows that the temperature for typical highway speeds causes the temperature to rise 50 degrees F above the ambient, but cools to a lower, but still warm temp after stopping. The manufactures account for this and other factors when providing recommended tire pressures.


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post #25 of 53 Old Aug 6th, 2019, 5:47 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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Originally Posted by NoelCP View Post
I certainly don't know at what point pressure and/or temperature exceeds what the tire can handle. I do fully believe tire manufacturers are fully aware of where their tires will find themselves, and build them accordingly, lest they be liable for all sorts of liability claims if their tires were to blow on day time highs in a good part of our southwest. When was the last time you read, heard, etc anyone telling you not to drive on the road because your tire may blow on hot day? Never heard my 66y.

I already know the tire is bloody hot riding on pavement at 112.9F for 3h in direct high-noon sunshine. But I assumed, and as it turned out rightly so, there was no problem. Happens every day of the week and twice on Sundays and people ARE NOT pulling over and removing air. Plus, for me personally the odds of finding me in that sort of temperature is almost zero. I get up at the CoD to avoid any kind of warmth! So really, what matters most, is I immediately can see if my tire is leaking air no matter what the temp from -20 to +115, and trying to figure that out when you make adjustments to the standard 'cold tire adjusted to 68F pressure'? good luck having a clue if you have a leak! That is the value of seeing 42R 36F and indeed I've seen that, while riding as I keep TPC displayed always, a very slow leak of a few PSI. Pulled over, pulled out a construction staple and repaired it. Invaluable!
Given some of the vehicle industry malady-events of recent years, and my overall disdain for Corporate values, I don't have that kind of faith in manufacturers. I think manufacturing nowadays (particularly on vehicles) is driven by marketing profits, not with consumer interests as a priority.
Of course, competition drives them to make safer or more ergonomic vehicles, but that is also base of profits as priorities--and that is the reason why you see so many fatalities at worse, recalls at best, due to hasty manufacturing to reach marketing superiority.
I can't particularly trust Dunlop now that they refuse to provide me with data on temperature safety ranges for my tire.

You been around long enough that you remember people complaining about Metz tires splitting in half at the center carcass. A long while back Firestone had a mishap with their tires and they were sued.

These Corporate conglamorates don't care about that, cause with the capital they hold, they can shun a suing job with nickels out of their coffers

I would have to accept blindly that their recommended pressure is going to take care of all (including extreme) conditions. I don't got that kind of faith.



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Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
Pick up a non contact thermometer and you can stop and spot check the temperature of the tire anytime. I wish Smartire had kept making the bike version as it gives actual pressure, actual temperature and a "delta pressure" from cold. I have found enough sensor units to keep mine going on my bike for a long time to come.
This is a great idea. If I could only find out temperature safety-range on my tires.

If Dunflap would say: "look we recommend 42 psi for you tire and including Summer heat, your tire is not likely to get beyond 'X' temperature. Then, I would watch out for X temp. But as is, there is nothing to go on other than faith on manufacturers. Well...ok. I 'll ask the Holy Spirit if its ok to trust Dunlop's recommended pressures next time I cross that lousy desert
(I-8 between TX and Diego)...cause the Holy Spirit is the only thing I have faith in these days.
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post #26 of 53 Old Aug 6th, 2019, 6:46 pm
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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Given some of the vehicle industry malady-events of recent years, and my overall disdain for Corporate values, I don't have that kind of faith in manufacturers. I think manufacturing nowadays (particularly on vehicles) is driven by marketing profits, not with consumer interests as a priority.
Of course, competition drives them to make safer or more ergonomic vehicles, but that is also base of profits as priorities--and that is the reason why you see so many fatalities at worse, recalls at best, due to hasty manufacturing to reach marketing superiority.
I can't particularly trust Dunlop now that they refuse to provide me with data on temperature safety ranges for my tire.

You been around long enough that you remember people complaining about Metz tires splitting in half at the center carcass. A long while back Firestone had a mishap with their tires and they were sued.

These Corporate conglamorates don't care about that, cause with the capital they hold, they can shun a suing job with nickels out of their coffers

I would have to accept blindly that their recommended pressure is going to take care of all (including extreme) conditions. I don't got that kind of faith.





This is a great idea. If I could only find out temperature safety-range on my tires.

If Dunflap would say: "look we recommend 42 psi for you tire and including Summer heat, your tire is not likely to get beyond 'X' temperature. Then, I would watch out for X temp. But as is, there is nothing to go on other than faith on manufacturers. Well...ok. I 'll ask the Holy Spirit if its ok to trust Dunlop's recommended pressures next time I cross that lousy desert
(I-8 between TX and Diego)...cause the Holy Spirit is the only thing I have faith in these days.
Sorry, but I think you worry too much about this. Why not just cross the desert at night? Or slow down? I have never read a story about someone having a crash because their properly inflated tires failed due to overheating. I have crossed Kansas (repeatedly) in 108 degree heat, at 75mph, two up on a Valkyrie with the tire technology that was available 20 years ago. Just another hot day on the bike.
Just last week I rode from El Paso to Kerrville on I10 at about 85mph in 100 degree heat. That's 500 miles. Granted I was on a Harley Ultra Limited (about 1000 lbs with me and gear) on a set of Dunlop American Elites.....which by the way last around 15-18k miles at these speeds and heat.

But you gotta worry if that's what drives you. Enjoy the Ride.
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post #27 of 53 Old Aug 6th, 2019, 6:59 pm Thread Starter
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You and Noel could be right: maybe I am worrying about nothing
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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I would like to see what the pressure and temperature swing is with using nitrogen.
I concur with pkpilot that using nitrogen would have little effect.

First of all, plain air is already 78% nitrogen, so going to pure nitrogen only affects the other 22% of the tire charge.

There may be a very subtle effect because the specific heat (quantity of energy required to raise a given mass of material a given change in temperature) of nitrogen is about 13% higher than oxygen, but I think that effect is pretty much in the weeks.

We typically used nitrogen in aviation tires because the nitrogen is more chemically stable and has less long term potential to attack the tire rubber compounds than the oxygen and moisture in air can.

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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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When you did your math on temp changes vs pressure changes did you use degrees Kelvin? The formula is intended for that. This article gives a great detailed discussion on the issue and even has a handy chart.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_inflation_pressure
I think you are going down a path that hopefully few will follow. Seems dangerous to me.
I used the English units equivalent of Kelvin, Rankine. You are absolutely right; one must use absolute temperature, either Kelvin or Rankine, and also absolute vs. gauge pressure.

Our scientist friends tend to use the metric units and convert Centigrade to Kelvin (by adding 273 degrees). I'm a retired engineer and tend to think in English/SAE units, i..e. Fahrenheit and Rankine (by adding 460 degrees).

Similarly, absolute pressure = gauge pressure + atmospheric pressure (~ 15 psi).

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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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You and Noel could be right: maybe I am worrying about nothing
Now wait a minute wethead I am the King of Worry! One of my daughters calls me the 'Master of Caution'!

Very fortunately, there just isn't the real world evidence that it's a problem. So it's not just that I think hte tire manufacturers don't want to be liable for a disaster, it's that you don't hear of this being a problem. It's theoretically plausible, but mostly because we really have nothing to go on but the fact that you just don't see tires blowing up in these sorts of conditions. I think were I to find myself having to ride in 120F ambient in full sun I'd very likely start wondering about the tires because as you point out there very surely is a maximum pressure and temperature they can endure, we just don't know what that is.

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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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You and Noel could be right: maybe I am worrying about nothing
1. Alas; after all this conversation we're sort of back where you started. We don't really have the hard facts about what the pressure and temperature limits are for the tires.

2. Whatever the tire limits are, at those temperatures there'd be an excellent chance that I'd give out before they do.

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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

I think we can go with experience. Plenty of folds ride the Western States in very hot situations and no tire problems of massive explosions have been reported to any degree that comes to the surface. Tread wear yes, blow outs no.

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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

The TPM is the worst thing ever invented because its misused AND at the same time its a great thing, it can detect a leak while you are zooming down the road.

As a desert rat , i can tell you to expect everything to get very hot. Don't worry about it. If its 115 outside and the pavement is 170 the tires, brakes, swing arm and anything connected to the rear end will be very very hot. Relax, you are not suppose to touch it or use a iffy digital tire gauge to check the pressure on a hot tire. Leave it alone and ride out of the heat to a higher elevation. Any tire in good condition will be a able to handle the heat of the road.

On a side note: I helps to start out with a very accurate gauge... I was on a quest to find an accurate tire gauge like Camel brand from days gone by. Those are long gone and if you find any they are made in China. I was explaining my quest to Lee Parks and he makes a gauge that he guarantees it to be accurate +/- 1 pound. He tests each unit several time for accuracy.

Stay very hydrated out there.
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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The TPM is the worst thing ever invented because its misused...
I contest this opinion, and I know many others share your opinion about this and that I'm in the minority. What I find ironic is that people trust a $30 pressure gauge, and trust their sometimes marginal understanding of what setting cold tire pressure calibrated to an ambient temp of 68F is, over a very sophisticated continuous internal pressure sensor with tire air temperature compensated output. After 65K miles on two bikes w/ TPM I've always found perfect correlation w/ the two different external gauges I own, so I follow BMW's guidance to trust the output from their system, which they clearly imply you should do when you read the manual. I use a high quality Flaig gauge to validate what TPM is displaying every once in a while but it's always been valid for me so I absolutely trust TPM always. What I've not understood is why the need for road-warming of the tire to get TPM to display correct values. Always, if I set my tire to X pressure around 68F ambient, TPM will display X minus 2psi until the tire is warmed, then it's spot on X. I wouldn't own a bike w/o TPM after my experience with it in my two BMW bikes.

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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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On a side note: I helps to start out with a very accurate gauge... I was on a quest to find an accurate tire gauge like Camel brand from days gone by. Those are long gone and if you find any they are made in China. I was explaining my quest to Lee Parks and he makes a gauge that he guarantees it to be accurate +/- 1 pound. He tests each unit several time for accuracy.
This is a wonderful gauge I bought 5y ago, made in Germany. You can get it with 90, 45 degree and straight chucks and is a breeze to use w/ almost no air loss when disconnecting. Whatever I set pressure to with this gauge is what displays in TPM now going on 65K miles:


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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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What are the dangerous parameter of tire temperature?...

What about the PSI/s What would be the high danger?...
Amazing how we manage to spend hours NOT addressing the original subject of these discussions??? I must confess I am as guilty as anyone. Initially, I was happy to see the question due to a selfish reason. My bike (2011 RT) didn't come with TPM. So, being the penny pincher, I purchased a cheap (compared to the BMW version) aftermarket TPM system. It consists of a couple of external valve stem caps and a little digital watch size receiver to mount somewhere on or around your bikes instrument panel.

The set up instructions leave a lot to be desired. I suspect the author's first native language is not English, and the translation is suspect. Installing the small caps (transmitters) on the valve stems was very easy. I'm still pondering how to mount the receiver? However, my "first read" of the instructions is that before this thing can be useful in any way...I must enter certain "Alarm Parameters." Like, LOW PSI...HIGH PSI...HIGH TEMP...

Being intellectually lazy...I was hoping this thread might supply some "rule of thumb" numbers. All manufacturers are constantly working, updating, and improving their products in close competition for our money. Surely...there are some "RULE of THUMB" parameters we can use that translate across brands that don't have to be so precise as to cause a heart attack???

Temperature for example...I don't want my TPM alarming just because the tire gained 10 degrees over ambient. I would like to have it alarm before the tire melts as I'm in the apex of a sharp turn. I also want to know in terms of pressure...high or low...what rate of change would/should cause an alarm...either in a specific number or percentage?

All bikes, makes of tires, pressure gauge tools, etc., will have their individual fine adjustments, but for the original questions/topic of this conversation...I'm not sure we have sufficiently answered them.

These little technical devices should be considered a blessing, made to provide great beneficial information! However, if we fail to understand them, and they become sources of anxiety (worry machines)...then I (we) will probably be better off not carrying the worry machine on my ride.
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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Now wait a minute wethead I am the King of Worry! One of my daughters calls me the 'Master of Caution'!

Very fortunately, there just isn't the real world evidence that it's a problem. So it's not just that I think hte tire manufacturers don't want to be liable for a disaster, it's that you don't hear of this being a problem. It's theoretically plausible, but mostly because we really have nothing to go on but the fact that you just don't see tires blowing up in these sorts of conditions. I think were I to find myself having to ride in 120F ambient in full sun I'd very likely start wondering about the tires because as you point out there very surely is a maximum pressure and temperature they can endure, we just don't know what that is.
We have a problem here Noel, and the only solution is to have our daughters get together and compare notes...in which case, I am confident my archive will out-do you in a "Master of Caution" competition. You can stand next to me at the podium with the silver, but don't count on getting the gold.
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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Amazing how we manage to spend hours NOT addressing the original subject of these discussions??? I must confess I am as guilty as anyone. Initially, I was happy to see the question due to a selfish reason. My bike (2011 RT) didn't come with TPM. So, being the penny pincher, I purchased a cheap (compared to the BMW version) aftermarket TPM system. It consists of a couple of external valve stem caps and a little digital watch size receiver to mount somewhere on or around your bikes instrument panel.

The set up instructions leave a lot to be desired. I suspect the author's first native language is not English, and the translation is suspect. Installing the small caps (transmitters) on the valve stems was very easy. I'm still pondering how to mount the receiver? However, my "first read" of the instructions is that before this thing can be useful in any way...I must enter certain "Alarm Parameters." Like, LOW PSI...HIGH PSI...HIGH TEMP...

Being intellectually lazy...I was hoping this thread might supply some "rule of thumb" numbers. All manufacturers are constantly working, updating, and improving their products in close competition for our money. Surely...there are some "RULE of THUMB" parameters we can use that translate across brands that don't have to be so precise as to cause a heart attack???

Temperature for example...I don't want my TPM alarming just because the tire gained 10 degrees over ambient. I would like to have it alarm before the tire melts as I'm in the apex of a sharp turn. I also want to know in terms of pressure...high or low...what rate of change would/should cause an alarm...either in a specific number or percentage?

All bikes, makes of tires, pressure gauge tools, etc., will have their individual fine adjustments, but for the original questions/topic of this conversation...I'm not sure we have sufficiently answered them.

These little technical devices should be considered a blessing, made to provide great beneficial information! However, if we fail to understand them, and they become sources of anxiety (worry machines)...then I (we) will probably be better off not carrying the worry machine on my ride.

I appreciated this post. I think when all is said and done, it appears no one really knows and some 'assume' or 'believe' in unproven and undocumented results.

It may be impossible to figure out who is right, but now that Noel has given my ailment a medical term (Master of Caution) I am going to err in the side of caution on my next desert crossings.

Actually, I dont stay on the bike too long in hot days and make frequent stops. One time in the South somewhere around NC I went into a convenient story, spread my arms out and put my back against the fridge to cool down cause I was getting a little scare that I might be getting hyperthermia...can I tell ya? I was hot as a witche's aaasss.

other times I have poured cold water on me head, soaked my shirt, hide in an a/c establishment for a while...and pray!

At these times, I don't understand what this Sun has against humanity. Last time I past Gila Bend in AZ it was 119. I headed for the Western and parked my bike in the hallway in the shade...flock that!
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post #39 of 53 Old Aug 7th, 2019, 4:30 pm
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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it appears no one really knows and some 'assume' or 'believe' in unproven and undocumented results.
Now come on you can't get any better documentation and proof than knowing there are millions of miles logged in very hot conditions annually, and we don't hear of tires blowing up or melting while traveling. In the info age you can't hide stuff like that, so yes you can consider the matter bench-tested by reality which you can't beat. This statement, of course, does not obviate that there is a maximum temp above which you're getting too close to the tire's failure point. It could very well be, and is probably the case, that rider intolerance of extreme heat is going to start threatening the rider's ability to function fully well before the tire blows anyway.

And by the way your condition, our condition, is called Dominus Incaute Syndrome, DIS for short. People w/ DIS often live longer than those w/o the condition.

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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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Now come on you can't get any better documentation and proof than knowing there are millions of miles logged in very hot conditions annually, and we don't hear of tires blowing up or melting while traveling. In the info age you can't hide stuff like that, so yes you can consider the matter bench-tested by reality which you can't beat. This statement, of course, does not obviate that there is a maximum temp above which you're getting too close to the tire's failure point. It could very well be, and is probably the case, that rider intolerance of extreme heat is going to start threatening the rider's ability to function fully well before the tire blows anyway.

And by the way your condition, our condition, is called Dominus Incaute Syndrome, DIS for short. People w/ DIS often live longer than those w/o the condition.
In spite of being together in the brotherhood of DIS, we have differing perspectives on 'documentation' and 'proof'.

Documentation to me, means an empirical study in a controlled environment where data is collected correlating several of the relevant factors pertaining to our conversations: heat/psi/speed/load etc. Then, a conclusive and statistically reliable result will attest consistent and reliable results that can be published on data sheets for consumers to see.

I doubt you would accept the treatment method of a physician based on proof he claims was obtained by participation in several medical forums where he never heard of his prognosis gone wrong.

Proof is the provision of objective, unbias empirical research.

I would guess there is no money for spending on motorcycle tire temperature tolerances. Thus, I am even willing to accept tire manufacturer recommendations on the issue...even that is not available.

I am willing to possibly be wasting my time in concerning myself with the potential dangers of a motto tire blowing up in desert heat.

But my inquiry cannot be dismissed based on the propensity of comments in motorcycle forums one way or another. Certainly, based on those premises, one cannot assert the issue has been 'documented' or 'proven'.

I 'll keep researching elsewhere. If I find anything worthy of mention...I won't keep it to myself cause I love you guys
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post #41 of 53 Old Aug 7th, 2019, 11:19 pm
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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Being intellectually lazy...I was hoping this thread might supply some "rule of thumb" numbers. All manufacturers are constantly working, updating, and improving their products in close competition for our money. Surely...there are some "RULE of THUMB" parameters we can use that translate across brands that don't have to be so precise as to cause a heart attack???

Temperature for example...I don't want my TPM alarming just because the tire gained 10 degrees over ambient. I would like to have it alarm before the tire melts as I'm in the apex of a sharp turn. I also want to know in terms of pressure...high or low...what rate of change would/should cause an alarm...either in a specific number or percentage?
Since my ancient Harley did not come with a fancy temperature compensated TPM, I bought a similar device to you on Amazon. To set it's high and low I first set the tire air pressure using a known good gauge, then rode the bike for an hour on a normal day where the temp was in the high 80's and noted the rise in temperature and pressure. I added 10% to this and programmed the device accordingly. For the low I just subtracted 10% from the known good cold PSI and called it good.

I only use mine when rolling out in the morning, and at fuel stops, as I can't see it while riding and the little beeps and vibration would go unnoticed at speed.
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post #42 of 53 Old Aug 8th, 2019, 6:32 am
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

So every 18 wheeler is airing up and airing down when he runs the western states?

Come on guys this is just nuts.

I was always taught to watch PSI rise on TPM. If I see more then a 3-4 PSI rise in the rear I need to look at it and check it. 2-3 or more on the front and need to look at it. I am sure that PSI rise would need adapted to environment(such as dessert riding) but PSI rise is an indication of a underinflated tire.

The tires are made to handle the heat at proper inflation. The secret is what is the proper inflation for your environment? I am pretty sure if I knew I would be running in 100 degree plus heat 40/42 is not going to be what I start out with. I probably would try stock PSI and go from there.

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post #43 of 53 Old Aug 8th, 2019, 8:01 am
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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Proof is the provision of objective, unbias empirical research:
I wonder if we're talking about two different things. You're wanting unbiased empirical research seeking to learn at what point the tire integrity is impacted by heat/pressure? If so, sure I'd like to find out that as well mostly out of curiosity, not because I'm concerned about my tire blowing up or melting.

Now if the question is do we need new empirical proof that tires DON'T blow up or melt in real world hot conditions, then no we don't need any we already have millions of miles logged annually thru scorching heat with no tires blowing up or melting which is 100% empirical, not theoretical. Perhaps you heard of at least a few anecdotes to give you cause for concern or is it just hard to fathom that tires in good condition can handle that? How close was I at 112.9F, and of course the others on the same route of which there were several as there are regularly throughout the SW? I agree it would be good to know where one should start avoiding getting that close to.

As I say by the time temperatures get to the crazy hot zone best not to be riding anyway. It would be great to know WHEN tires in good condition are at risk for a heat/pressure related blowout but my sense is it's probably going to be above the point at which we will be stupid enough to ride in!

Here's something I found from none other than Dunlop R&D:

"However, it's one thing to still have three functioning wheels (or more for trucks) and another if a motorcyclist experiences a blown tire while cruising down the road at 70 mph. Tires naturally heat up when in motion and since asphalt temperature can exceed 40 degrees (and even as high as 60 degrees) warmer than the air temperature, you might question the safety of riding your motorcycle in temperatures hot enough to fry an egg on the road.

Yes, heat does affect tires. But, how concerned should motorcycle riders be when it comes to riding in hot weather and ruining the integrity of the tires over the long term, or worse, facing the prospect of a blown out tire?

To help answer the question, we enlisted the help of Tom Grolemund and Shawn Bell from the Research and Development team at Dunlop Motorcycle Tires.

The short answer is this: For a properly inflated tire, under normal operating conditions based on application, heat should not be a concern.

Grolemund and Bell offered these additional points when it comes to the effect of heat on motorcycle tires:

The most common failures due to heat result from under inflation. Under inflation stresses the carcass of the tire and generates heat due to excessive flex in the carcass. On a properly inflated tire, there is no such thing as overheating (with the possible exception of some extreme race applications). Compounds are designed to work within a wide range of temperatures. However, at the extremes (extremely hot or extremely cold asphalt) you'll be operating outside of the ideal range. This can lead to reduced performance."

Unfortunately they ducked the meaning of, "extremely hot", but did not say the tire was in jeopardy of blowing out, they kept the concern to "reduced performance".

And really, moreover, when it comes to making safety-related statements corporate spokespeople are going to er on the conservative side for obvious reasons. They certainly had the opportunity to in these comments above, but they didn't they said "there is no such thing as overheating".

And of 2 other articles about this absolutely the recommendation is: whatever you do...don't deflate the tire when it's hot!
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post #44 of 53 Old Aug 8th, 2019, 2:29 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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Originally Posted by wichitagreg View Post
Since my ancient Harley did not come with a fancy temperature compensated TPM, I bought a similar device to you on Amazon. To set it's high and low I first set the tire air pressure using a known good gauge, then rode the bike for an hour on a normal day where the temp was in the high 80's and noted the rise in temperature and pressure. I added 10% to this and programmed the device accordingly. For the low I just subtracted 10% from the known good cold PSI and called it good.

I only use mine when rolling out in the morning, and at fuel stops, as I can't see it while riding and the little beeps and vibration would go unnoticed at speed.
GREG,
Could you pass on to me the exact numbers you used for max/min entries on your TPM...just for reference. Thank bro



Quote:
Originally Posted by LAF View Post
So every 18 wheeler is airing up and airing down when he runs the western states?

Come on guys this is just nuts.

I was always taught to watch PSI rise on TPM. If I see more then a 3-4 PSI rise in the rear I need to look at it and check it. 2-3 or more on the front and need to look at it. I am sure that PSI rise would need adapted to environment(such as dessert riding) but PSI rise is an indication of a underinflated tire.

The tires are made to handle the heat at proper inflation. The secret is what is the proper inflation for your environment? I am pretty sure if I knew I would be running in 100 degree plus heat 40/42 is not going to be what I start out with. I probably would try stock PSI and go from there.
18 wheeler? really! you are gonna use an 18 wheel vehicle to compare overheating parameter zones with a motorcycle?

BTW, have ever seen pieces of tire carcass roaming around a hwy? Can you spell O V E R H E A T I N G under load? Common man! is right.

Look, I was a truck driver. I know some companies use re-carcass tires to save money and thus they probably fall apart sooner than those with OEM carcass. But, how do you know which of those tire debri you see on the road are from one or the other. And the load/psi factors of trucks and motorcycle do not even compare the dynamics of the physics...let alone the danger factors




Quote:
Originally Posted by NoelCP View Post
I wonder if we're talking about two different things. You're wanting unbiased empirical research seeking to learn at what point the tire integrity is impacted by heat/pressure? If so, sure I'd like to find out that as well mostly out of curiosity, not because I'm concerned about my tire blowing up or melting.

Now if the question is do we need new empirical proof that tires DON'T blow up or melt in real world hot conditions, then no we don't need any we already have millions of miles logged annually thru scorching heat with no tires blowing up or melting which is 100% empirical, not theoretical. Perhaps you heard of at least a few anecdotes to give you cause for concern or is it just hard to fathom that tires in good condition can handle that? How close was I at 112.9F, and of course the others on the same route of which there were several as there are regularly throughout the SW? I agree it would be good to know where one should start avoiding getting that close to.

As I say by the time temperatures get to the crazy hot zone best not to be riding anyway. It would be great to know WHEN tires in good condition are at risk for a heat/pressure related blowout but my sense is it's probably going to be above the point at which we will be stupid enough to ride in!

Here's something I found from none other than Dunlop R&D:

"However, it's one thing to still have three functioning wheels (or more for trucks) and another if a motorcyclist experiences a blown tire while cruising down the road at 70 mph. Tires naturally heat up when in motion and since asphalt temperature can exceed 40 degrees (and even as high as 60 degrees) warmer than the air temperature, you might question the safety of riding your motorcycle in temperatures hot enough to fry an egg on the road.

Yes, heat does affect tires. But, how concerned should motorcycle riders be when it comes to riding in hot weather and ruining the integrity of the tires over the long term, or worse, facing the prospect of a blown out tire?

To help answer the question, we enlisted the help of Tom Grolemund and Shawn Bell from the Research and Development team at Dunlop Motorcycle Tires.

The short answer is this: For a properly inflated tire, under normal operating conditions based on application, heat should not be a concern.

Grolemund and Bell offered these additional points when it comes to the effect of heat on motorcycle tires:

The most common failures due to heat result from under inflation. Under inflation stresses the carcass of the tire and generates heat due to excessive flex in the carcass. On a properly inflated tire, there is no such thing as overheating (with the possible exception of some extreme race applications). Compounds are designed to work within a wide range of temperatures. However, at the extremes (extremely hot or extremely cold asphalt) you'll be operating outside of the ideal range. This can lead to reduced performance."

Unfortunately they ducked the meaning of, "extremely hot", but did not say the tire was in jeopardy of blowing out, they kept the concern to "reduced performance".

And really, moreover, when it comes to making safety-related statements corporate spokespeople are going to er on the conservative side for obvious reasons. They certainly had the opportunity to in these comments above, but they didn't they said "there is no such thing as overheating".

And of 2 other articles about this absolutely the recommendation is: whatever you do...don't deflate the tire when it's hot!

We are back to the same flawed logic to beat an argument to death.
The "recommended psi for normal driving condition" is a typical bail out PR boolcrap from a Corp-clown statement on a potentially dangerous issue from their product.

Underinflating a hot tire would definitely assimilate more heat--assuming you go right back to driving under the same conditions.
At the same time, an over inflated and overheated tire must have a breakdown point. You might stipulate that: that point will never be reached because you never heard of it happening to anyone. But that does not prove that there isn't such flashpoint, nor that your 112 degree tire wasn't close to it, nor my 56psi GT. We both could have been just one degree or one psi from disaster.

I don't see why should we should shun wanting to know such important tolerance on our tires.

And this 'Faith' that some riders have on their motorcycle brand, equipment and worse yet, on the Corp who manufacture their tires is inconceivable to me given the destructive consequences of recent sloppy manufacturing products.

Everytime someone says to me: "well the 'company' knows how the product should work", the large amount of hairs I have in the places I shouldn't have, along with the few hair I have left on the places I should have a lot of, stand at attention as if a National Anthem is being played.
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post #45 of 53 Old Aug 8th, 2019, 3:26 pm
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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Originally Posted by wethead View Post
I don't see why should we should shun wanting to know such important tolerance on our tires.

And this 'Faith' that some riders have on their motorcycle brand, equipment and worse yet, on the Corp who manufacture their tires is inconceivable to me given the destructive consequences of recent sloppy manufacturing products.

Everytime someone says to me: "well the 'company' knows how the product should work", the large amount of hairs I have in the places I shouldn't have, along with the few hair I have left on the places I should have a lot of, stand at attention as if a National Anthem is being played.

I agree I'd like to know, but it's more to satisfy curiosity as I won't be found riding in temps like I did that day. And if I do I can always ride a little slower, like 60 instead of 75mph uphill in 112.9F! I head for cover with anything over about 92F nowadays.

And yet especially for something like tires isn't there typically a history of providing recommendations that lean much more towards the conservative for liability reasons? So for the cited Dunlop R&D people to state a very unambiguous "On a properly inflated tire, there is no such thing as overheating (with the possible exception of some extreme race applications). Compounds are designed to work within a wide range of temperatures....". Talk about hanging yourself out on a limb big time with this statement in writing. This combined w/ little to no anecdotes, yes, I think it's a moot point especially for those not inclined to ride thru the desert at high noon.

But, sure, I'm curious what they can withstand before they blow apart which they certainly could at some temp even though that may be at 130F ambient doing 80mph. You make a valid point about my 112.9F ordeal who knows how close I was, except we saw several of those uber heavy HD's zooming along as well and no motorcycle tire carcass alligators to be seen anywhere. I bet the standard of manufacturing is so good nowadays that it's still a moot point at any kind of road temps we will find ourselves in.

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post #46 of 53 Old Aug 8th, 2019, 6:05 pm
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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In spite of being together in the brotherhood of DIS, we have differing perspectives on 'documentation' and 'proof'.

Documentation to me, means an empirical study in a controlled environment where data is collected correlating several of the relevant factors pertaining to our conversations: heat/psi/speed/load etc. Then, a conclusive and statistically reliable result will attest consistent and reliable results that can be published on data sheets for consumers to see.

I doubt you would accept the treatment method of a physician based on proof he claims was obtained by participation in several medical forums where he never heard of his prognosis gone wrong.

Proof is the provision of objective, unbias empirical research.

I would guess there is no money for spending on motorcycle tire temperature tolerances. Thus, I am even willing to accept tire manufacturer recommendations on the issue...even that is not available.

I am willing to possibly be wasting my time in concerning myself with the potential dangers of a motto tire blowing up in desert heat.

But my inquiry cannot be dismissed based on the propensity of comments in motorcycle forums one way or another. Certainly, based on those premises, one cannot assert the issue has been 'documented' or 'proven'.

I 'll keep researching elsewhere. If I find anything worthy of mention...I won't keep it to myself cause I love you guys


If you guys would just read the sidewall of the tire, it says what the maximum pressure should be. This is not maximum cold pressure. It's maximum pressure. If the tires are reading higher than this maximum, air should be let out of the tire, at least down to maximum. Then when you get to the nice, cool mountains, check again and fill as needed. If the tire is warm, fill it a few lbs higher than recommended.

This idea that tire wear is lower at high pressures is a little true, but it's misleading. Yes, you get less wear, but the wear is all in the center and the center wears faster with high pressures because all the weight and friction is concentrated on a smaller contact patch. As a result, you get those square rear tires that don't want the bike to turn corners. Also, if you run into gravel in a turn, over-inflated tires are a real hand-ful.

Racers like 30 psi in heavier bikes and less in low displacement bikes....just for reference.

You guys sound like you're going to do whatever you want anyway, just pointing out a few things I know from lots of touring bikes, a few track-day experiences with racers and lots of track tire experiments on sports cars...where we only go by hot pressures, not cold.

Here's a factoid for summer high performance car tires, when most of them get to 40 or 42 hot pressure, they get greasy and don't stick well. Let some air out and they start working again. We let air out all day as the track and weather warm up.

Extreme weather is going to be hard on any tire. I've probably ridden in 100+ weather out west. We set our cold pressures to factory spec before we left Chicago and didn't check them until we got back. All good.

Also, we used to over-inflate...42 front, 45 rear on RT's. We got very square tires in back and weird lumpy centers and not round profiles. Handling became terrible after a few thousand miles...but we kept riding on them until over 10,000. We were terrified of gravel on turns and rode "scared" all the time. This is no way to enjoy your ride.

So, put me in the camp of allowing BMW to tell us how much air goes in the tires...at least with newer RTs. I think pressures are about right at 36/42 cold. If it gets to 112F, I'm stopping for beer.


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post #47 of 53 Old Aug 8th, 2019, 9:11 pm
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

Yes those highway alligators I would bet are recaps 90% of the time if not more.

Max PSI is the MAX cold inflated pressure a tire can be inflated to. It relies on nothing but that fact, Max inflatable pressure.

Now from there weight, ambient temp, road surface and speed come into play.

If your tire is weight rated for your vehicle, and is speed rated for your vehicle, then what ever condition that tire is intended for it has been tested to hold up at the max cold inflated pressure.

A tire generates heat in just driving, add cornering, braking and accelerating hard into and out of corners, and sitting stop and go and you get some heat working. But rolling down a highway at 70 MPH a tire inflated to the withing the max pressure stated would have no issues other then maybe more wear.

I mean again they been making tires for just a couple of years and I am not sure any one here knows better then them how or what a tire will withstand.

I just dont read about a guy a day on his motorcycle dying because his tire got too hot and blew out crossing the desert. And no cars or trucks for that matter.

I think way too much thought over something that gets baked at 300 degrees to get made.

Damn I am trying to figure out how I got across large parts of The Great Basin with no TPS knowing what the PSI or Temp was while I enjoying the hell out of the scenery?

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post #48 of 53 Old Aug 10th, 2019, 7:01 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

I found this in another crotchrocket forum: Some guy claims that Dunlop answer his inquiry after filling out a form...this is what came back:

From Dunlop:
Measured with a probe. ideal temp range for Q3s would be
Front tire: 120-180F
Rear tire: 140-190F

Regards,
Consumer Affairs, Motorcycle
Goodyear Dunlop Tires North America, Ltd.200 Innovation Way, Akron, OH 44316



He said these were ideal temperatures for a Q3....whatever that is!
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post #49 of 53 Old Aug 10th, 2019, 7:27 pm
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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Originally Posted by wethead View Post
I found this in another crotchrocket forum: Some guy claims that Dunlop answer his inquiry after filling out a form...this is what came back:

From Dunlop:
Measured with a probe. ideal temp range for Q3s would be
Front tire: 120-180F
Rear tire: 140-190F

Regards,
Consumer Affairs, Motorcycle
Goodyear Dunlop Tires North America, Ltd.200 Innovation Way, Akron, OH 44316



He said these were ideal temperatures for a Q3....whatever that is!
The Dunlop Q3 is a sport / track day tire. I think it's an obsolete model now superseded by the Q3+ and Q4.

Not sure about the context of Dunlop's message. It could be just general advice or it could be advice for a track day where one adjusts air pressure to optimize temperature.

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post #50 of 53 Old Aug 14th, 2019, 10:47 am
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Re: Tire Temperatures: I need to know

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Originally Posted by rtwiz View Post
If you guys would just read the sidewall of the tire, it says what the maximum pressure should be. This is not maximum cold pressure. It's maximum pressure. If the tires are reading higher than this maximum, air should be let out of the tire, at least down to maximum. Then when you get to the nice, cool mountains, check again and fill as needed. If the tire is warm, fill it a few lbs higher than recommended.
This is flat-out wrong. And the recommendation to reduce the pressure of a hot tire is flat-out dangerous.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiret...jsp?techid=196
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