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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
After main seal and tranny seal replacements I have what I believe all the parts back on that will allow me a test of the clutch and tranny before putting all the drive shaft etc. back together. I just dont want to put it ALL back and find out I missed something and have to pull it all off again. Got the tranny back on, stand assembly back on and switches mounted, fuel rail, airbox and gas tank on, and battery connected as well as to the starter and alternator. Reverse knob is straight up (or fully counter clockwise). I turn the key where the instrument panel looks normal, kill switch centered, center stand down, side stand up, tranny in neutral (validated by display on inst. panel and the trans output shaft rotates freely), press the button and HID headlights dim and no starter sound.

The battery has been fine all season as I start the bike about every two weeks and let it run for 15 minutes if I cant ride it at the time. I do not suspect the battery. I DO suspect that I may not have the starter/alternator wired up correctly but thats pretty slim because the wires would have only connected one way due to length limitations of the wires. Just in case, the long black wire to the deepest connection on the starter, brown wire on the frame ground on the starter, the black wire bundle with the blue wire off of it is on the alternator.

I am going to see if I can test the side stand switch and reverse switch for continuity.

The bike ran great prior to the tear down and clutch replacement. I think my frustration level is clouding my ability to determine where to go from here. I'm open to any steps from this point.

Picture shows starter wires and alternator at the bottom.
 

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After main seal and tranny seal replacements I have what I believe all the parts back on that will allow me a test of the clutch and tranny before putting all the drive shaft etc. back together. I just dont want to put it ALL back and find out I missed something and have to pull it all off again. Got the tranny back on, stand assembly back on and switches mounted, fuel rail, airbox and gas tank on, and battery connected as well as to the starter and alternator. Reverse knob is straight up (or fully counter clockwise). I turn the key where the instrument panel looks normal, kill switch centered, center stand down, side stand up, tranny in neutral (validated by display on inst. panel and the trans output shaft rotates freely), press the button and HID headlights dim and no starter sound.

The battery has been fine all season as I start the bike about every two weeks and let it run for 15 minutes if I cant ride it at the time. I do not suspect the battery. I DO suspect that I may not have the starter/alternator wired up correctly but thats pretty slim because the wires would have only connected one way due to length limitations of the wires. Just in case, the long black wire to the deepest connection on the starter, brown wire on the frame ground on the starter, the black wire bundle with the blue wire off of it is on the alternator.

I am going to see if I can test the side stand switch and reverse switch for continuity.

The bike ran great prior to the tear down and clutch replacement. I think my frustration level is clouding my ability to determine where to go from here. I'm open to any steps from this point.

Picture shows starter wires and alternator at the bottom.
STOP!!!


This sounds very familiar to a recent thread. DO NOT under any circumstances hold down the start button or you may melt your wiring harness.

First, verify your wiring according to the attached drawing. If you have one connected wrong, all you may be doing by pressing the start button is shorting the battery.

Second, once you are sure you have the wires correct, what year is it as 02 and newer probably have the upgraded starter relay and a low battery will be prevented from starting the bike to keep the relay from engaging.

If you can. attach pictures of what wires you have connected to the two tie points behind the battery. It is not difficult to get one wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I jumped the battery and got the same result. I did notice that my aux lighting goes out for a bit then comes back on after letting up on the start button. Possibly that relay is causing a short? I'll pull the relay and see if things change. Then I'll follow your diagram.
 

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I jumped the battery and got the same result. I did notice that my aux lighting goes out for a bit then comes back on after letting up on the start button. Possibly that relay is causing a short? I'll pull the relay and see if things change. Then I'll follow your diagram.
Follow the diagram first. The last one who crossed a wire after the clutch repair fried his harness.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The aux relay is fine. I traced the wires on the diagram that Gordon provided and all looks good. Since things are acting like a short when I press the start button, I think I need to remove the shift linkage and reverse linkage and trace back the wires on those 2 switches to see if they are pinched by any grounded metal since those two switches come into play with the starting process. I'll let you know how that turns out.

Any other ideas are more than welcomed. Thanks.
 

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That starter wire (black) you show in the picture, where does the other end go? It should be on the starter tie point behind the battery on the shifter side. Some think it is a ground wire because it is black it is actually the hot to the starter.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I took off the reverse switch and the sidestand switch, all wires looked good. Once, for a split second when pressing the start button I got a short starter whirr so my thinking was that maybe the battery just didnt have enough kick in it. I had the battery tested and its stronger than rated. It's less than 2 years old and lives on a Battery Tender when its not out riding.

My next thought is that maybe I need to pull the transmission off, remove the starter and bench test it.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
John, that black starter wire DOES go back to the starter tie point. I used Gordons diagram to validate all of that.
 

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OK. How many miles on the bike? I figured it was OK since you said the lights went out when you pressed the button, if the starter was not hooked up right that would not happen. Can you measure the battery voltage? If so put the meter on it and get a reading then press the starter button and see what it does.

If no meter then you can test the starter directly. Just remove the black wire from the starter tie point and hold it onto the battery + terminal. If the starter is OK it will spin even if the battery were weak.
 

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It could be the starter. Here is one thing you can try. With the key off and on the CS, put it in reverse and turn the rear wheel with your foot. It will take some effort but that will rotate the starter. Then take it out of reverse and see if it will crank. If it does, you may have a large amount of debris floating inside the starter. I did a clutch and starter for a friend with an LT and his starter had so much debris in it, it would not start the bike. A starter that is not turning is close to a dead short.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
60k miles. battery reads 12.75 with key off, 12.50 with key on and starter button pressed
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Gordon, if the rear wheel, final drive, drive shaft, were on I could do that. right now the powertrain stops at the transmission output shaft. But yeah, on cars I've had starters that would act like this. Its just a strange coincidence that it happened with the clutch, and seals, project.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Great idea on the starter test John. I'm going to go remove the black wire from the starter tie point right now and tap it to the battery to see what kind of results I get.
 

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Gordon, if the rear wheel, final drive, drive shaft, were on I could do that. right now the powertrain stops at the transmission output shaft. But yeah, on cars I've had starters that would act like this. Its just a strange coincidence that it happened with the clutch, and seals, project.
OK, pop the drive shaft on and stick a screw driver through the U joint to turn it, then pop it back off :) You may be able to do it without locking the retention spring clip. You will hear the starter spin some. Forgot you didn't have the back end assembled yet.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
removed the black wire from the starter tie point and touched it to the battery positive and got no reaction - key on or off. Testing continuity on the black wire to ground and got 0 ohms.

Soooo, bad starter?
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
You guys are such great resources. Testing the starter that way and using the screwdriver to turn the engine... I never would have considered those.

With the starter test of black wire to battery + being open to ground tells me its the starter. I would have expected a certain amount of resistance otherwise.
 

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Just because you are reading zero ohms does not mean the starter is toast. There are three brushes in there and if any one of them is not making good contact you can prevent it from spinning.

Worst case is you pull the transmission back off and open up the starter. Better to do it now that it is at the point of minimal removal of stuff. Then maybe a cleaning will restore function. You can check the starter off bike with a set of jumper cables easily to confirm it is working after the cleaning. There are new and refurbished units available from Euro Moto Electrics.
 

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removed the black wire from the starter tie point and touched it to the battery positive and got no reaction - key on or off. Testing continuity on the black wire to ground and got 0 ohms.

Soooo, bad starter?
Something isn't right here. Zero Ohms is a dead short. If that is the case, you should get a huge spark when you touch the black wire directly to the positive battery terminal.
 

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You guys are such great resources. Testing the starter that way and using the screwdriver to turn the engine... I never would have considered those.

With the starter test of black wire to battery + being open to ground tells me its the starter. I would have expected a certain amount of resistance otherwise.
Black wire to positive post would measure open as the only connection at that point would be through the brushes to ground so you need to measure black wire to negative post to measure continuity through the starter. It should measure very low ohms and if you meter isn't really good, it may not be able to measure that low with any accuracy but it will measure something close to a short circuit. You should be able to measure voltage black to positive post indicating a connection of at least some type.

Turning the engine is not what I had in mind. Placing the trans selector in reverse ( trans in neutral) will not turn the engine but will turn the starter which is what I wanted in hopes to clear any crap that might have found its way under the brushes when flipping it around off the bike when doing seals. I left mine connected the whole time. Wish I had pulled it apart and examined it.

Not quite sure where you are and as Voyager mentioned, 0 ohms is not an open circuit but a short and you also mention an open circuit Not sure of your terminology pertaining to what measurements you made.
 

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Something isn't right here. Zero Ohms is a dead short. If that is the case, you should get a huge spark when you touch the black wire directly to the positive battery terminal.
Depends on what scale you are measuring it at. 200K ohm scale on the meter will show zero ohms for a 20 ohm load.
 
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