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I'd be on my way home.

Fill in the slit trench, roll up my sleeping bad, strike my tent, get in formation and head towards the house.

Heard in the news where they said it wasn't translated properly or he was mis-quoted.

Hate it, all those lives lost to help that country. Seems that life has a different meaning or value to those folks than it has to us.
 

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Ok, I'm going to throw a fly into the ointment!

Have you forgotten 9/11???????

Some have!
 

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pkpr1998 said:
Ok, I'm going to throw a fly into the ointment!

Have you forgotten 9/11???????

Some have!
No matter how much the evidence refutes it, there are those who will believe forever that Iraq had something to do with 9/11. People believe what they want to believe.
 

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I do believe that if we had focused our efforts on Afghanistan, which was where Bin Laden and his terrorist network was training and operating, that Al-Queda would not be even stronger now.

We got distracted from our mission...terrorists and now will probably have a bigger, longer fight on our hands.

Just my thoughts.

Keith
 

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It's hard to believe in most of our lifetimes, we're witness to TWO Vietnams.
You're not going to win a theocratic war, doesn't matter what period of History you look at, never happened, never will.
 

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Duh! We're not out of Iraq because Pres. Georgie is still looking for Bin Laden who was in Afganistan but is now in the backwoods of Pakistan! Get it Now?:confused:

That, and according to that "Commie" Michael Moore, Pres. Georgie and his friend Little Dickie are still lining their pockets with sweet gov't non competitive contracts to rebuild Iraq.

Seriously, has anyone caught the new HBO special on Iraq titled Ghosts of Abu Ghraib? It deals with a bunch of shady deals private corporate contactors have done in the name of national security. This includes hiring interpreters who work with our troops to translate with the Iraq citizens. These translators have no background checks and barely speak either Farsi, English and whatever other language they speak in the desert. All the while these companies (I think one was called Titian) bill our government for BILLIONS.

That "Commie" might have been on to something in that Fahrenheit 9/11. Yes it was one sided but where there is smoke, there's fire. That's good enough for President Georgie to order an ill planned, ill equipped invasion of Iraq in the first place!

As someone who lost friends and neighbors in 9/11, I was in favor of invading Afganistan to get Al Quida. I was even in favor of going after Saddam for having WMDs.

Folks, we were lied to by Georgie! He and his cronies are making billions while our troops (and some of my former students) are coming home in missing limbs and psych. damaged or not coming home at all.

If Iraq states that they can do it on their own, then BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW!
 

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gunny said:
I forgot, what did Iraq have to do with 9/11?
Nothing at all. Brett, put the pot and the stirrer down and back away slowly . . .

RVB1019 said:
Folks, we were lied to by Georgie! He and his cronies are making billions while our troops (and some of my former students) are coming home in missing limbs and psych. damaged or not coming home at all.
Many of us figured that out well before the last elections. Apparently, not quite enough though. 2008 will sure be different.

BTW, exactly what branch of the government is Cheney in again? I forget, but apparently so does he.
 

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Bobnoxous said:
No matter how much the evidence refutes it, there are those who will believe forever that Iraq had something to do with 9/11. People believe what they want to believe.
And no matter how many times this thing is explained, folks continue to assume this is a nation state based conflict.

Pick a country, any country - name it. That name has no meaning in any of this. It's a conflict of ideaology, maybe even cultures. Kind of like two ant species in a small yard. They do not co-habitate. One obliterates or subjugates the other, takes their young and makes them their own.

Messy, ain't it.

Now, where do you wanna wallow in that mess. Cuz, eventually, you'll have not choice but to wallow in - somewhere. It sure isn't going away on it's own.
 

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Zotter said:
And no matter how many times this thing is explained, folks continue to assume this is a nation state based conflict.

Pick a country, any country - name it. That name has no meaning in any of this. It's a conflict of ideaology, maybe even cultures. Kind of like two ant species in a small yard. They do not co-habitate. One obliterates or subjugates the other, takes their young and makes them their own.
This is both a battle of nation states and a battle of ideologies. Our foreign policy has been oppressive to many in the middle east, and other countries. Of course we're despised for that. We support an abusive regime in Saudi Arabia. We gave Hussein his military, which he used against competing factions in Iraq when the Iran/Iraq war ended. We've supported a lot of killing and abuse. What a shock some people hate us.

Ron Paul is the only candidate that acknowledges that 9/11 was blowback for our continued interference in the middle east. We have no business trying to manipulate other people's affairs. We can barely manage our own. When we do, we make some friends, and we make some enemies.

Once the shooting starts, its justified with religion. Gasp! Haven't seen that one before. I think God was on our side on WWII. Of course, he was on the German's side too. How about the crusades? God picked 2 sides in those battles too. Wars just seem to be entertainment to God.

Clearly, people use religion to their own ends. People claim "this time it's different", as always, but it's just more of the same. A war starts, religion is used as a selling point, some people buy into it. History is full of these examples.

We're not innocent in all of this. If you think 9/11 just happened out of the blue, you need to stop relying on what's essentially government media for your news.

What can we do about it now? We've already made lots of enemies. Fixing our foreign policy will not right all wrongs. That is a complicated question without a simple answer. But to ignore the real reasons why we're in this endless war will not help anything.

As long as people want to attack us, there will be successful attacks. No police state is so tight to prevent everything. 9/12 is coming, unless we can find a way to get people to stop wanting to kill us. Stopping our own killing and getting out of other nation's business is a step in the right direction, not to mention that it would save us a ton of taxpayer money. Let's actually defend our country, instead of trying to create a new one.
 

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Couldn't have said it any better Bob!
 

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Don't forget there are other aspects here too. If the Government can keep us focused on the boogey man, all the easier to pass more restrictive laws, take away more privacy, and allocate more tax money to pet projects. Not to mention the ability to keep people from worrying about real threats, like the impending financial meltdown of this country, quality of life here, healthcare, natural resources, air quality or any of a hundred other things that are not being addressed.

BOO! :eek:
 

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KMC1 said:
Don't forget there are other aspects here too. If the Government can keep us focused on the boogey man, all the easier to pass more restrictive laws, take away more privacy, and allocate more tax money to pet projects. Not to mention the ability to keep people from worrying about real threats, like the impending financial meltdown of this country, quality of life here, healthcare, natural resources, air quality or any of a hundred other things that are not being addressed.

BOO! :eek:
Here, here. There are terrorist cells everywhere, and illegal aliens, and people who just don't love the flag enough. It's their fault, not ours. Ignore the man behind the curtain.

If the knee-jerk, "sign anything put in front of me" reaction of congress to 9/11 was bad, wait until the next one. Will the government say
"well, I guess we did a bad job and those billions we spent and all that spying wasn't effective",​
or will they say
"look, we need more money, and more spying, and road stops throughout the country (which won't catch any terrorists, but will do a good job of catching people with pot, weapons and, in Chicago, smuggling trans fats), etc., etc.".​

Capitalize on every opportunity to invoke fear and control the people. Fear is the most useful of emotions.
 

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Zotter said:
Now, where do you wanna wallow in that mess. Cuz, eventually, you'll have not choice but to wallow in - somewhere. It sure isn't going away on it's own.
In that case, why didn't we just invade Mexico and "fight 'em there, so's we don't gotta fight 'em here" ? It'd be a lot cheaper and we could train the Mexican peasants to be security forces. I guarantee insurgents and guerillas would show up for the party no matter what turd-world dust midden we marched into.

Speaking seriously though, Iraq has been the biggest foreign policy blunder of the last half century. Bigger than 'Nam, in my opinion. Meanwhile the real enemy regroups for the past five years in Pakistan and probably doesn't give two shits what goes on in Iraq, as long as it keeps the USA busy and we leave them alone to rehearse their next production of Masterpiece Terrorist Theater. The current administration and its power-addict enablers in congress (on both sides of the aisle) should be sent off to Gitmo with nothing but a towel, a trowel and an English translation copy of the Koran. Hmmmm, I did start this paragraph with "speaking seriously", didn't I. :D
 

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Bob, that's the rational I don't buy. I'm almost to the point of thinking there are two separate issues here. And many are using one to erroneously explain the other. There may be connections - but I don't think there're causes.

What is the national guilt that assumes the US is the bad guy? It's still amazing to me that folks are ashamed of US being successful. And under the guise of 'compassion'. That somehow the US is inherently evil - simply by existing. Wait now - who is it that thinks that?

Part of the task of any government is to protect the security of it's people. Not make the world a better place for everyone else. Too bad, so sad - we've the resources, you don't. That does NOT obligate us to give them away just cuz it's a 'nice' thing to do. Supporting Hussein, militarizing other countries - that wasn't done to make things 'better' for them. It was done to make things better for us. Simple as that. Unless and until the grand unified world government comes to power and can make everyone play nice - that's the way it is. Putting the US in the role of the great den mother is just as dangerous as putting your head in the sand and pretending there's no one else out there.

I honestly don't think this conflict is a 'Get the US for pissing on us' deal. Regardless of the religious justifications. It IS a conflict motivated by Religion. The extremists honestly feel it's their obligation and duty to destroy what's different. Anything that's 'Them' in their viewpoint - should not be allowed to exist. It's to their own glory to destroy 'Them'.

Civilized countries and people use things called government and economy to influence others towards their own goals. Success is variable and if you don't get your way, you go on and either work harder within the systems to change it or you get over it. Part of a government's duty is to protect itself and it's people from those who don't play by the rules.

Sending folks with bombs strapped to their backs into public places simply to kill 'them' is not the action of a disgruntled national. That's not the behavior of a hero. It is the behavior of absolute intolerance. A senseless act of violence justified by a belief in personal gain.
 
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