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Discussion Starter #1
I went to the show today and was really disappointed that they did not have a GT there. They only had the GTL. They said that there are only one bike each in the country and the other one was in L.V. due to an issue with logistics.

The GTL was comfortable. Great positioning for my back, arms, and wrists. It had the low seat though which was too low for me.

I really wanted to see the GT as that is the bike I wanted. I had the Pre-order form filled out with my drivers license at my dealer waiting there for once I sit on an actual bike. I guess I will still order the GT but will make a final decision after I test ride one once they come in as you are not forced to take the bike.

They bike really looked big to me, and I wonder how it handles compared to my RT. I think I'm probably north of 50/50 that I will keep my RT.

I spoke with someone from BMW NA and he said the absolute earliest the pre-orders will arrive the dealerships would be May. The same goes for the demo bikes.

Here are a couple of pics. I didn't have the time to wait for the people to get off the bikes to take them.






Ken
 

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If you are going from a RT to a GTL I guess it would seem big. Going from a HD Ultra to a RT, the RT seems small. I doubt the GTL will seem big to me. One of my traveling friends rides a 1200 RT and I have ridden it several times. How did the foot position feel and whats your inseam?
 

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Whew... At the last minute (a couple of days ago), I backed out on plans to burn some frequent flyer travel vouchers and attend the show. I wouldn't have been happy with the absence of the GT. :( Thanks for the report!

BTW: I guess it's no coincidence that all of the folks around the bike are old guys like me... :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
1. The arms are lower and more bent at the elbows. I am really picky and I can tell you that no one will feel uncomfortable with their back, arms, wrists. They put the low seat on the bike so that anyone would fit. It was too low for me. The guy in the first picture was very short by the way.

I know the GT positioning isn't as relaxed as the GTL but the site that lets you see ergonomics of most bikes showed that the GT is a little more relaxed than the RT and the RT is fine for me.

2. I have a 32" inseam.

3. Maybe the top case made it seem so big. Actually I have owned an Ultra Classic and an LT previously. I guess it just seemed long.

4. The foot position was OK but due to the low seat my knees were bent more than what I would have wanted.

5. Actually I was going to make the old man comment once looked at the pictures. But then again, I am 56. (I look extremely young though since I use Grecian Formula) :D
Ken
 

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Thanks Ken for the feedback. I think I'm comfortable now going with the high seat on the GTL.


cbdane said:
BTW: I guess it's no coincidence that all of the folks around the bike are old guys like me... :rolleyes:
There aren't a lot of young guys out there with the kind of money needed to buy this bike.. maturity has its perks! :D
 

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Gee & I thought I lived in a backwater town...but we had both the GT & GT/L up here in Edmonton Alberta :p.
 

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Looking at all the young guys swarming the GTL, it must be BMW's worse nightmare.
 

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ken6217 said:
1. The arms are lower and more bent at the elbows. I am really picky and I can tell you that no one will feel uncomfortable with their back, arms, wrists. They put the low seat on the bike so that anyone would fit. It was too low for me. The guy in the first picture was very short by the way.

I know the GT positioning isn't as relaxed as the GTL but the site that lets you see ergonomics of most bikes showed that the GT is a little more relaxed than the RT and the RT is fine for me.

2. I have a 32" inseam.

3. Maybe the top case made it seem so big. Actually I have owned an Ultra Classic and an LT previously. I guess it just seemed long.

4. The foot position was OK but due to the low seat my knees were bent more than what I would have wanted.

5. Actually I was going to make the old man comment once looked at the pictures. But then again, I am 56. (I look extremely young though since I use Grecian Formula) :D
Ken
Ken,
I'm coming off an Ultra Classic myself, did this actually feel bigger than an Ultra? Looks like they had the rear wheel fixed, so I'm guessing you couldn't pick it up off the side stand and get a feel for the weight. I'm particularly interested in hearing how it feels weight-wise compared to an Ultra.

Since I have the GT on order I'd have been PO'd to make the trip to NY only to discover that they didn't have the bike!

Thanks for the write-up.

Ray
 

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Went to the NY show today. Based on the crowds around the bike, there certainly is a lot of interest.

Every woman that got the back of the bike complained about the hard plastic spacer between the rear seat and the top case. There's just too much of a gap between the passenger and the topcase, causing the passenger to want to scoot back so they are sitting on the hard plastic. That's a real problem that should be fixed. I hardly ever ride two up so it's not really an issue for me.

The topcase seems really big without the integrated plastics on the GoldWing. It's just not as well executed as the LT. I like that it's removable without too much trouble. The connector harness hopefully will be routed better on the production bike. It sort of just hangs there underneath the topcase. There doesn't appear to be any way to adjust the topcase forward, although some enterprising person will come up with an aftermarket way to do it.

If you look closely at the second and third pictures above, there is a huge "chrome" bulge just below the blue painted fairing. It just looks bad in its execution, IMO. If you look closely at the fourth picture, notice how the fairing bulges on each side above the crash bars. It's not an optical illusion, the fairing is asymmetrical, bulging out more on the rider's left side than the right. Can't say why that bugs me; the S1000RR has those ugly asymmetrical headlights and that didn't stop me from buying one of those.

There are two pockets in the fairing, one on each side. IMO, they appear to be positioned way too low. Only riding it and trying to access them will tell if they are serviceable. The GPS integration into the fairing was well done. Kudos to BMW on that.

Asking about the bluetooth integration, I was told that Schuthbert will get the nod from BMW as the recommended helmet to use. Headed over to their booth and spoke with them at length about it. Their helmet will be fully integrated with the BMW system. That doesn't work for me as I use in-ear monitors and would like to plug them in to the helmet, rather than chopping up the speaker wires, which was suggested to me by the Schuthbert rep. Instead, I spoke with the Nolan folks and they plan on integrating as much as they can or BMW will allow. Their helmet has the built in 3.5mm jacks for audio in and out, so I can utilize bluetooth and the in-ear monitors. Liked it so much I bought one at the show.

After seeing the K1600GTL in the flesh so to speak, I'm leaning towards waiting to find out what Honda might release in 2012-13. The R1200GSA is interesting enough for now. The K1600GTL just doesn't scream "buy me". Now that might change once I get to ride one. That was the case with the GSA.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Ray,
The rear wheel is fixed so it didn't move. The bike really looked huge to me. Probably due to the top case.

I would prefer the GT to the GTL but I have no idea the positioning of the arms and wrists. I would assume that there will be a significant difference between the two bikes or otherwise they would be the same bike with the exception of the UGLY fake chrome pieces that they put on the GTL.

I will decide by Monday which one to order. I am still loving my RT though.
Ken
 

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Thanks for the update.. good to know that Schuberth's communicator will be fully compatible with the GT/GTL.

The chrome bulge you speak of hides the cooling return hose from the rad.... some things there's no way to hide or even them out on both sides.
 

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I also enjoyed the show today, I felt that the GTL was smaller than I thought it would be. I will of course need a ride before I actually buy one. My RT is farkled to the point of perfection for me and it would take something very, very special to replace it.

If the Schuberth SRC system is integrated I would think it should only take a software download (if even that were needed) for the Scala G4 to also be integrated as they are essentially the same devices.
 

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stepheg said:
I also enjoyed the show today, I felt that the GTL was smaller than I thought it would be. I will of course need a ride before I actually buy one. My RT is farkled to the point of perfection for me and it would take something very, very special to replace it.

If the Schuberth SRC system is integrated I would think it should only take a software download (if even that were needed) for the Scala G4 to also be integrated as they are essentially the same devices.
With regards to the Scala, I doubt it. I don't speak bluetooth, but I've owned a software business for a long time. There's an API (application programming interface) or similar set of functions that are programmed into the BMW on-board system. Unless BMW releases this information, then the Scala's, J&M's, Nolan's, etc. are going to be feeling around in the dark to figure out how to interface with the control wheel on the handlebar.

I'm sure Schuberth is paying for the privilege of being the "official" US supplier of integrated helmets, and BMW reduces its workload since they only have to deal with one company. So, at least for the first six months to a year, I wouldn't expect any useful information to get to any of the other companies.

I went over to the Schuberth booth at the NY show and discussed their system and helmets. They don't know much about the integration, as it's all being done in Deutschland. Nice enough helmet but overpriced compared to other units. A comparable Nolan with the bluetooth system installed was almost $400 less than the Schuberth. That's not pocket change. Also, I use in ear monitors and there's no way to plug them into the Schuberth helmet (the Nolan has a 3.5mm jack).
 

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sfoster said:
With regards to the Scala, I doubt it. I don't speak bluetooth, but I've owned a software business for a long time. There's an API (application programming interface) or similar set of functions that are programmed into the BMW on-board system. Unless BMW releases this information, then the Scala's, J&M's, Nolan's, etc. are going to be feeling around in the dark to figure out how to interface with the control wheel on the handlebar.

I'm sure Schuberth is paying for the privilege of being the "official" US supplier of integrated helmets, and BMW reduces its workload since they only have to deal with one company. So, at least for the first six months to a year, I wouldn't expect any useful information to get to any of the other companies.

I went over to the Schuberth booth at the NY show and discussed their system and helmets. They don't know much about the integration, as it's all being done in Deutschland. Nice enough helmet but overpriced compared to other units. A comparable Nolan with the bluetooth system installed was almost $400 less than the Schuberth. That's not pocket change. Also, I use in ear monitors and there's no way to plug them into the Schuberth helmet (the Nolan has a 3.5mm jack).

Which Nolan are you discussing / purchase? Is it a flip helmet? I had the 102, loved it, but after 4 years it started to delaminate. The company replaced it, + a little $$ with the new 103, but the sizing had changed and it was quite a bit noisier than the 102.

I ended up selling it and now use the Scorpion 9000. I'm not totally pleased with it either.
 

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sfoster said:
With regards to the Scala, I doubt it. I don't speak bluetooth, but I've owned a software business for a long time. There's an API (application programming interface) or similar set of functions that are programmed into the BMW on-board system. Unless BMW releases this information, then the Scala's, J&M's, Nolan's, etc. are going to be feeling around in the dark to figure out how to interface with the control wheel on the handlebar.

I'm sure Schuberth is paying for the privilege of being the "official" US supplier of integrated helmets, and BMW reduces its workload since they only have to deal with one company. So, at least for the first six months to a year, I wouldn't expect any useful information to get to any of the other companies.

I went over to the Schuberth booth at the NY show and discussed their system and helmets. They don't know much about the integration, as it's all being done in Deutschland. Nice enough helmet but overpriced compared to other units. A comparable Nolan with the bluetooth system installed was almost $400 less than the Schuberth. That's not pocket change. Also, I use in ear monitors and there's no way to plug them into the Schuberth helmet (the Nolan has a 3.5mm jack).
I like the in the ear monitors as well. I use the IMC Motocom BTS300 and S-plugs. IMC makes a harness with the plug for the earbuds and they have a soft corded microphone for the closed face helmet. I use the Zumo 665 as my point of integration for the Iphone, navigation and satellite radio. I works pretty well and I love the protection from wind noise. It sounds a little gadgety but I like getting the weather updates and alerts especially in the spring with radar. It has proven very helpful. I think the BMW integration will give you traffic but I am not sure weather updates are a part of the service they will offer. Does anyone know?
 

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Cardo makes the Schuberth and System 6 communicators. They are essentially the same as the Cardo G4 without the external antenna. I have a Schuberth and love it, I will wait to see if Cardo will make the firmware update available for the G4 too, but somehow I doubt it.. on the other hand, it's not out of the realm of the impossible for bmw to agree to it and make buyers happy by not having to purchase a new helmet just to get the communicator to be fully compatible with the b/t on the bike.

Does the Nolan have a pinlock visor? Every helmet from here on out should have one. No fogging up on cold morning..

also, I've read these complaints about the Nolan:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=349660


sfoster said:
With regards to the Scala, I doubt it. I don't speak bluetooth, but I've owned a software business for a long time. There's an API (application programming interface) or similar set of functions that are programmed into the BMW on-board system. Unless BMW releases this information, then the Scala's, J&M's, Nolan's, etc. are going to be feeling around in the dark to figure out how to interface with the control wheel on the handlebar.

I'm sure Schuberth is paying for the privilege of being the "official" US supplier of integrated helmets, and BMW reduces its workload since they only have to deal with one company. So, at least for the first six months to a year, I wouldn't expect any useful information to get to any of the other companies.

I went over to the Schuberth booth at the NY show and discussed their system and helmets. They don't know much about the integration, as it's all being done in Deutschland. Nice enough helmet but overpriced compared to other units. A comparable Nolan with the bluetooth system installed was almost $400 less than the Schuberth. That's not pocket change. Also, I use in ear monitors and there's no way to plug them into the Schuberth helmet (the Nolan has a 3.5mm jack).
 

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I purchased the 103. Got to try it on at the show and it fit pretty nicely. With my head shape only Shoei's have been comfortable. The Nolan didn't give me the pressure point on the forehead that I get from practically all other brands (my weird head shape, not their fault).

Nolan does have the pinlock installed. That was one of my first questions. I will not use another helmet without pinlock.

Thanks for posting the thread about the Nolan experiences. Seems to me there are a number of folks who like them and dislike the Schuberth. All this stuff is subjective anyway. I wear Ultimate Ears 11 custom fit monitors , so sound issues between helmets are somewhat minimized.

 

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Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like almost everyone who has seen one and sat on one at the show is a little disappointed. I'm thinking that a lot of the "pre-order" bikes will be available for sale as people back out of them.

As I intend to replace my Goldwing and it would be my two-up bike, I'm very concerned about all the comments about the passenger riding position. Nobody seems to like it. BMW needs to address that very quickly if they expect the GW converts.
 

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I've noticed the disgruntled comments coming from current LT owners.

I was pleasantly surprised.. I was expecting a bike that's goldwing in size.. and was very pleased that it wasn't..
 
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