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Watch Your Six

 

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Re: Watch Your Six

Wow. It may be his/her day to play the lottery!

This shows another great reason for helmet cams: proof. A quick look around documents the traffic and weather conditions, the at-fault driver, etc. To her credit, the driver didn't say "I didn't even see you"! :)

Glad to see this person wasn't hurt, at least as far as we can tell from the video. There may be some pain tomorrow.
 

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Re: Watch Your Six

Yes, the cager driver is an idiot. But I would never have been behind a stopped car at a light if the left and right lanes are available for me. Perhaps one of those lanes was a turning lane, but I doubt if both were. Just sayin'...
 

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Re: Watch Your Six

messenger13_ver2 said:
Yes, the cager driver is an idiot. But I would never have been behind a stopped car at a light if the left and right lanes are available for me. Perhaps one of those lanes was a turning lane, but I doubt if both were. Just sayin'...
I don't see a light. The car to the right of the van continued on and a car went by on the left. After the hit, we can see a car slanted to the right in front of the van. The van seems to have hit the brakes pretty hard in an unexpected place. Tough call for the rider. I think he might feel that tomorrow.

Dale White
 

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Re: Watch Your Six

Interesting. Note the lack of a right brake lamp and third brake lamp on the van. When the impact occurs, the force absorbed by the van jostles the vehicle enough that the right brake lamp starts to function.

Casual observation: speed too fast and following too close by the motorcycle. While he got it shut down, the vehicle behind him obviously didn't. A bigger gap would have allowed him to slow much more gradually and perhaps saved his underwear. Was he at fault? No. Did he contribute to the accident by not driving defensively? Yes he did.
 

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Re: Watch Your Six

deanwoolsey said:
Interesting. Note the lack of a right brake lamp and third brake lamp on the van. When the impact occurs, the force absorbed by the van jostles the vehicle enough that the right brake lamp starts to function.

Casual observation: speed too fast and following too close by the motorcycle. While he got it shut down, the vehicle behind him obviously didn't. A bigger gap would have allowed him to slow much more gradually and perhaps saved his underwear. Was he at fault? No. Did he contribute to the accident by not driving defensively? Yes he did.
:yeah:

Also of note, but not necessarily part of the accident scenario:

1. The car that rear end the biker appears to be a Scion xB - one of the most heavily ticketed cars out there. One could assume that the driver is - ahem - less than competent to begin with.

2. Middle aged female - I'm sure to get bitch slapped for that observation - but in my daily routine and personal observation find that they are absolutely among the worst drivers on the road. Very distracted and not skilled to begin with.

3. Japanese sport bike driver (wearing jeans). One could infer that he was indeed young, driving too fast and following too closely. Probably the NUMBER ONE worst driver on the road. Invincible attitude leads to lots of accidents...

4. No doubt the absence of 2 out of 3 tail lights on the stopped vehicle was a causal factor.

Just sayin...

I didn't see any stoplight. No matter what the reason the car stopped in front, if he was farther back he would have been driving more prudently - and as Dean pointed out - given the driver behind him MUCH more time to respond. His stop was really fast and by my count he was most definitely tailgating. If he was farther back he would have plenty of opportunity to go around or avoid such an aggressive stop due to HIS inattention. He got caught not thinking of alternatives.

Defensive driving and maintaining a large envelope around you is how to avoid accidents - even then ones that sneak up on your six.

My take? A total cluster****.

1. Driver in front at fault for not having properly working tail lights.

2. Motorcycle driver tailgating and not focused on the vehicle - poor situational awareness.

3. Driver that hit motorcycle probably tailgating and not aware as well. Also guilty of driving a really stoopid looking car which should also get her a ticket from the fashion police.

Welcome to California! :D
 

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Re: Watch Your Six

OK ... I've had the chance to watch the video several times, a little more closely, and I totally disagree with anyone thinking that the motorcyclist was following too closely. Pause the vieo when you first see the SUV's brake lights come on ... at about 4 seconds. There is a LOT of distance between that vehicle and the bike. All I'm saying is, at that point, I would've viewed my right mirror and switched lanes. Even still, he chose not to and then got slammed in the rearend by some lady. I also disagree with "middle-aged". That woman looks and sounds (to me) to be at least 60. That's not "middle-aged" to me. Then again ... I'm not as old as Ron. :D
 

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Re: Watch Your Six

It looks like the bike was 2 seconds behind at one point. Also it looks like when the bike was pushed into an hit the SUV it fixed the right brake light? It could have been worse, but the rider looked shaken at the least. Bending over holding the knees? The bike wasn't the only thing that got pushed into something. :eek:
 

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Re: Watch Your Six

Following too close is relative to speed. Play the video and note how long it takes the cycle to cross the intersection which appears to be at least six lanes wide. Note also that he and the van are passing vehicles in both of the other lanes. Looks to me like he's probably at 50 or 60 MPH at one point. I would really love to see about 30 seconds more on the front of that video. Note the distance covered in the 8 seconds prior to impact which includes braking time.
 

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Re: Watch Your Six

messenger13_ver2 said:
OK ... I've had the chance to watch the video several times, a little more closely, and I totally disagree with anyone thinking that the motorcyclist was following too closely. Pause the vieo when you first see the SUV's brake lights come on ... at about 4 seconds. There is a LOT of distance between that vehicle and the bike. All I'm saying is, at that point, I would've viewed my right mirror and switched lanes. Even still, he chose not to and then got slammed in the rearend by some lady. I also disagree with "middle-aged". That woman looks and sounds (to me) to be at least 60. That's not "middle-aged" to me. Then again ... I'm not as old as Ron. :D
I'll bet I can beat you in a 100 yard dash Joe...

Anyway, if you count the time from when the van in front crosses the white line of the crosswalk - and the time the motorcyclist crosses it you'll count 1 second. Let's assume they're both doing the speed limit which is probably 35 in that area. It looks like they are going much faster but it's difficult to tell.

When I took driver's ed back in the stone age (you know - before electricity and indoor plumbing) the common wisdom taught was to keep 1 second of distance for every 10 miles per hour of speed. I don't think the laws of physics have changed since then.

If he wasn't tailgating you should have been able to count to 3.5 seconds.

One second isn't nearly enough time to do a head turn to clear the lane before swerving. If he was paying attention - and not following too close - he would have already known in advance which lane to use to completely avoid the situation - he would not have had to even think about it since he would have had a large bubble to work with. Viewing only your mirrors is always a recipe for disaster, that's really sloppy driving technique.

I guess you must have been snoozing during driver's ed Joe... :p
 

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Re: Watch Your Six

messenger13_ver2 said:
OK ... . I also disagree with "middle-aged". That woman looks and sounds (to me) to be at least 60. That's not "middle-aged" to me. Then again ... I'm not as old as Ron. :D
That sure is too "middle age!" and I'm planning to make it to 120.....
 

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Re: Watch Your Six

Not sure why some are blaming the rider for "tailgating"... He was able to stop on time. Not quite the same story for the aging chick behind him. She was obviously tailgating based on her reaction time. He just got sandwiched.
By no mean am I saying he was doing all the right moves, but he did not rear-end anyone without "help"! I hope he is OK!
 

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Re: Watch Your Six

deanwoolsey said:
... Casual observation: speed too fast and following too close by the motorcycle. While he got it shut down, the vehicle behind him obviously didn't. A bigger gap would have allowed him to slow much more gradually and perhaps saved his underwear. Was he at fault? No. Did he contribute to the accident by not driving defensively? Yes he did.
Agree 100%.

While it may be true that the rider would not be cited since he didn't rear-end the minivan, he still paid a price. This could have been avoided by having a larger margin of safety or changing lanes, if it could have been done safely. OTOH, we've all seen last-second lane changes result in avoidable crashes.

I don't see anything in front of the minivan. Why did it stop?
 

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Re: Watch Your Six

zippy_gg said:
Not sure why some are blaming the rider for "tailgating"... He was able to stop on time. Not quite the same story for the aging chick behind him. She was obviously tailgating based on her reaction time. He just got sandwiched.
By no mean am I saying he was doing all the right moves, but he did not rear-end anyone without "help"! I hope he is OK!
He got "trapped" by having extremely little time to react - with no other option but to brake hard and straight ahead.

He literally boxed himself into a panic situation with no alternative - and that is the mark of an amateur rider.

Whether or not he was "tailgating" (not exactly sure what the definition of that is) is just about impossible to determine from the video. They were probably BOTH tailgating - I mean, that could NEVER happen in California traffic - right? ;)

It is clearly evident that he had ONE SECOND to make a decision. What's truly unfortunate is that he could only make one decision with that amount of time. Avoidance at that closure rate was not an option, and that's the only serious advantage motorcyclists have in city traffic. He decided in advance to abandon that option by his aggressive pace.

He fucked up big time, and I'm sorry his bike got totaled, but he played a huge part in his own demise. Nobody wants to take responsibility anymore for their own bad judgment.

I am, however, amazed at his gymnastic ability! :D

(and aside from some serious butt puckering and certain body parts receding into areas they have not been since before birth I think he's OK.) :clapping:
 

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Re: Watch Your Six

zippy_gg said:
Not sure why some are blaming the rider for "tailgating"... He was able to stop on time.
He did stop in time, but left himself no place to go. I agree that he should have switched lanes earlier, and this accident wouldn't have involved him. Instead, the lady who hit him would have plowed into the car.

Everyone has missed some important clues, however. The motorcyclist has a pretty blue bike, with matching jacket and gloves. Just sayin'. Given the recent celebration of MLK Day, he was probably distracted, thinking that the "I Have a Dream" speech didn't go far enough.
 

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Re: Watch Your Six

Ted said:
Given the recent celebration of MLK Day, he was probably distracted, thinking that the "I Have a Dream" speech didn't go far enough.
Just let it go, Ted . . . :rolleyes:
 

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Re: Watch Your Six

meese said:
Just let it go, Ted . . . :rolleyes:
I'll smack him next time I see him. :D
 

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Re: Watch Your Six

messenger13_ver2 said:
I'll smack him next time I see him. :D
Or just give him a big, sloppy kiss. :rotf:
 

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Re: Watch Your Six

meese said:
Or just give him a big, sloppy kiss. :rotf:
:corn:
 
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