BMW Luxury Touring Community banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
253 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Attached are some pics of my transmission oil plug for the 24K mile service. Is it normal to have so much metal stuck to the transmission magnet?
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,886 Posts
The pictures seem out of focus, but it's early in the AM.

That is a lot more then I ever had after 50,000 miles. Most of what I found on mine was like graphite dust or just like a smudge.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,106 Posts
Way too much metal, me thinks you got a problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,746 Posts
Im not so sure there is a problem. The itty bitty pieces of metal "dust" can stand together on end and form whiskers. When you rub the fragments between thumb and forefinger are the individual particles really tiny? Im talking particles smaller than fine sand tiny or are they long sharp particles like splinters that would poke into your finger? :(

Im hoping for finer than fine sand particles!

Loren
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,525 Posts
That's quite a bit. BUT, There's a lot a metal slamming around inside that gearbox..

How many miles on that oil ? Is the transmission otherwise acting normally ?

Are you a good "shifter" or do you grind the gears a lot... If you're a "grinder" then it's probably ok...

Are you using Neutral ? Stop it !

Don't use neutral while the engine is running.... It's not for that.. If you're shifting into neutral at a stop light and then grinding your way into first when the light changes... There's your metal...

I think I'd change it and come back in a few thousand miles and look at it again...

The only time any of my bikes are running in neutral is when they're being tuned...
The only other time they're in neutral is if they're being pushed around the shop prior to being worked on.. Otherwise they stay in gear.....

I would never even think about pushing the start button unless the clutch is pulled in...
Even if I was working on it and I "Thought" it was in neutral... Sometimes that light will lie to you...I've trained myself to have that clutch pulled in...

Yes, Your riding style can greatly affect the amount of metal you see on the trans plug..

John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
253 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
It is like long metal lines. I do not believe the oil was changed for years. Its a 99 with 26k miles on to that I got last year. I put 6k miles on it. Gears in general are working fine. Sometimes I have a hestitation while shifting.

If I leave it in gear and use the clutch at signals wouldn't the clutch wear out? I use a lot of neutral.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
228 Posts
I myself never use neutral at a stop ...just something more to do when it's time to go.
Saying that I have found if you put a little pressure on the shifter to go to 1st then pull the clutch in it goes in real nice.
Sometimes I miss second though if I get lazy on the shift.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,525 Posts
LTFan said:
It is like long metal lines. I do not believe the oil was changed for years. Its a 99 with 26k miles on to that I got last year. I put 6k miles on it. Gears in general are working fine. Sometimes I have a hestitation while shifting.

If I leave it in gear and use the clutch at signals wouldn't the clutch wear out? I use a lot of neutral.
I think you're fine.. I think you need to adjust your riding style just the tiniest bit..

Clutch disk wear occurs during the engagement / disengement phase when the flywheel and the clutch are slipping while mating..... You can hold the clutch lever in all day long and the clutch since it's just spinning in space is not wearing... If you slip the clutch heavily and often then you'll wear it out...

I think you're ok.. Just stop using neutral.. The gears on the LT transmission are flat cut so they bang around enough as it is... Try to NEVER use neutral...

Starting off? The bike is in first gear always.. Start the engine with the clutch pulled in.. Let out the clutch and off you go.. Shutting down at the end of your ride ? Come to a stop with the bike in first gear... Put the side stand down to shut off the bike..
Hold the bike upright for 30 seconds to allow the oil to drain back into the crankcase so you won't get a "smoke start" .. Turn off the key and you're parked..

Coming to a stoplight ? Downshift your way to first while decelerating. Pull the clutch in and stop... Hold the clutch till the light changes... Ease out the clutch and off you go...

I think you're fine... Change that oil. Stop using neutral and the next time you look at it you'll see a lot different result...

Good Luck

John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
253 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Thanks for the info. I will try to avoid neutral and change oil in a month to know more. I plan on adding approx 3k miles this month. considering the condition of the old oil I removed i believe next change might still be pretty dirty.

What part or gears grind when we are in neutral?is it easy to change gears in the tranny ourselves?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,525 Posts
Here's what's going on.. Bike is neutral and engine is running... Clutch is disengaged so the input shaft and associated gears are spinning.. Pull in the clutch and step on the gearshift and the side edges of the gears grind as they're meshing...

If you wait long enough for the input shaft to stop spinning.. Then the gears are not likely going to be "syncd" together so now it won't go into first... Then you have to let out on the clutch just a little to get the input shaft to turn enough to let those gears mesh. Again with a little bit of grind.......

So leaving neutral out of your routine almost completely eliminates the bad kind of grinding that happens when everything is not moving at the same time...

Servicing the transmission is not something for the faint of heart....So I'd say no with the exception of just a few guys that hang here....And other than seals, It's rare to have an issue with the transmission.. They're built for the long haul unless you really abuse them...

I wouldn't even call what you'e doing to it resulting in all that metal abuse... But I guarantee you that's where all that metal came from...You must learn the BMW way grashopper......You can't learn everything overnight...

But you can do better...:)

John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
338 Posts
Everything John said, is the best advise you can get.

On top of that, staying in first gear at a stop, is the safe way to ride. You should always leave enough room ahead of you-just in case you see in your mirror--that someone is not stopping, also looking out for an escape route...that way you have time to get out of the way and you are IN GEAR.
Every rider course will teach you this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
191 Posts
LTFAN
That is what mine looked like when I bought it a few years ago. I pulled the tranny down and found TWO bearings going out. There was no play to feel in the bearings so I put indicators on the different bearings and found the culprit. The tranny is straight up simple and easy to work on. You just need a couple special tools. These are easy to make as I did my own. I replaced all six bearings and did the detent spring upgrade while I was in there. Not to mention clutch and all seals. I also reshimmed all length wise clearances on my gears to give a more positive and definite shift, smooth as silk now.
These trannies have room for improvement as with any factory production item would have. Don't be afraid of this gearbox, it is one of the simplest motorcycle trannies I have worked on (next to a Hodaka), Lokk in the Clymer book and do what it suggests and you should be good. Good Luck
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,651 Posts
JPSpen said:
That's quite a bit. BUT, There's a lot a metal slamming around inside that gearbox..

How many miles on that oil ? Is the transmission otherwise acting normally ?

Are you a good "shifter" or do you grind the gears a lot... If you're a "grinder" then it's probably ok...

Are you using Neutral ? Stop it !

Don't use neutral while the engine is running.... It's not for that.. If you're shifting into neutral at a stop light and then grinding your way into first when the light changes... There's your metal...

I think I'd change it and come back in a few thousand miles and look at it again...

The only time any of my bikes are running in neutral is when they're being tuned...
The only other time they're in neutral is if they're being pushed around the shop prior to being worked on.. Otherwise they stay in gear.....

I would never even think about pushing the start button unless the clutch is pulled in...
Even if I was working on it and I "Thought" it was in neutral... Sometimes that light will lie to you...I've trained myself to have that clutch pulled in...

Yes, Your riding style can greatly affect the amount of metal you see on the trans plug..

John
I agree with most of what you write, but there is no harm to a transmission leaving it it neutral when stopped with the engine idling.

The weakest link of almost every standard shift vehicle I have owned is the throw-out bearing, also called the release bearing and a few other names. Running the engine for long periods of time with the clutch disengaged can put a lot of stress on the throw-out bearing. I never run long periods with the clutch pulled in, I shift into neutral.

There are safety considerations if you are stopped at a light that may warrant staying in gear, but from a purely mechanical perspective there is simply no reason to do so. If you are losing a lot of metal shifting into 1st gear, then you either have a clutch problem that needs to be repaired or a poor technique that needs to be corrected.

As to the OPs pictures, it is hard to tell from the pictures, but it does appear to be a lot of metal, although if this is the first time the oil has been changed, maybe it isn't so bad. The bigger question is whether the metal is very fine or large flakes. The magetic field can align a fine metal powder such that it looks like long flakes of metal so you need to rub the metal between your fingers to see what its composition is.

If it has large flakes in it, then you likely have a problem. If this is just a magetically aligned paste of fine metal, then I wouldn't worry too much.
 

·
Wrencher Extraordinaire
2005 K1200LT
Joined
·
14,411 Posts
As long as it is grey fuzz when spread out on a paper towel you are fine. Any big silvery bits is not good. I am not going to comment on the neutral deal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,525 Posts
I am not going to comment on the neutral deal.

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

I know exactly what you mean John...

There's the whole throw out bearing side of the argument too... I understand...

Anyone reading this do as you damn well please.. I'm not the BMW engineer here...This is just the way I do things....

I think BMW's mention of start the engine and ride away is because if you start the engine and are getting old like me and forget.. You might have a dead bike when you finally remember....Especially if you're riding an air-oil cooled bike..

I don't think I've ever seen just the grey sludge on a transmission magnet.. There's always a little shiny stuff... On mine anyway.. I mean really you can't be slamming those gears around and not knock off a little metal every now and then..

John....
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,651 Posts
jzeiler said:
As long as it is grey fuzz when spread out on a paper towel you are fine. Any big silvery bits is not good. I am not going to comment on the neutral deal.
John, where is your sense of adventure? :)
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top