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Discussion Starter #1
If you were pulled over for a moving violation, which would've cost you about $173 to $300, and the officer offered you a $10 "didn't have your registration", ticket would you take it?? No points vs. 3 to 6 points.

Fact is that you did have your registration, but the officer was trying to cut you a break, during this hard times. Would you file a complaint, because you had it, but you never stated it to the officer at the time. Nor did the officer see the registration, but he did ask for it.

Yup I got burned bad a few months ago. Trying to get a guy a break, and he complained. Lost a weeks pay for $10 ticket, so if the officer doesn't cut you a break, he may have gotten burnt.
 

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Some people just cant be satisfied. Think I would of took the $10 ticket and would of had the upmost respect for you. Sorry that it came back to bite you.
 

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First let me say that no good deed goes unpunished. Now...let me play devil's advocate here...

Was it a chicken shit pull? Be honest, Did you give the guy a break because he looked like he really needed it, or because the pull was borderline at best?

You say A moving violation.....$173 to $300...3 to 6 points...you're waffling. Which was it? Or, are you talking multiple tickets driving up the $$ and points? Trumping up a careless charge on top of simple speeding doesn't endear you to your new roadside friend...you realize that, right? If he was TRULY doing something that warrants $300 and six points, you weren't doing the rest of us any favors by letting him slide and solidifying in his mind what ge was doing wasn't so bad.

From his perspective, maybe getting pulled for something he felt was wrong to begin with only gets MORE chicken shit if you decide to give him an "inconvenience" ticket rather than just letting him off altogether. He can see your knocking it down as an acknowledgement that the "reason" you pulled him over to begin with was bogus. If he was speeding, write him for speeding or let him go with a warning.

Think about it as separate offences rather than a single stop. Honestly, whether it is technically an ticketable offence or not, I'd be pissed too if you wrote me for no reg if the plate came back in my name and I had a matching ID.



And...I doubt the write says you lost a weeks pay for a $10 ticket, but that's between you and whoever slapped you.
 

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I had that happen to me, in a company car, at least 10 years ago on my way from Orlando to Daytona. Got pulled over for speeding (yes I was over the speed limit) and as I pulled over, I removed my seatbelt to get out my license. Florida had recently raised the cost of a ticket and there were a lot of complaints about the fact that the cost of a ticket was more than the average working person made in a week.

The officer noted that I did not have on my seatbelt and said that he was going to write me up for that, implying instead of a speeding ticket and to slow down. I was not going to argue that the reason I didn't have on a seat belt was to get out my license and I was in no way going to complain to anyone. He did his job, got me to slow down and I was grateful.

John, the person in question was simply an A#@ and making it hard for the rest of us..
 

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DanDiver said:
John, the person in question was simply an A#@ and making it hard for the rest of us..
I'm not going that far without his side of the story.
 

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hoog62 said:
I'm not going that far without his side of the story.
Knowing John from this forum and what officers must put up with on a daily basis, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. I can't imagine having to daily spend time with the people that they have to have contact with. Not the cream of society.

I think that most officers are good people trying to do the right thing (even giving people a break now and then) and the few that aren't are like the few civilian who are jerks and make it difficult for the rest of us, just trying to exist peacefully.

In this situation, I really feel that the civilian was taking what should have been a break and turning it into a cheap shot against the officer. Of course there are always two sides to any situation and even with video and interviews, you sometimes reach a point where you must pick a side and I'll pick John's.....Just My Opinion.....
 

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Wow Dave. Are you channeling your inner messenger13? :D

John, any LEO that offers me a non-moving violation ... I'm TAKING IT!!!
 

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messenger13_ver2 said:
Wow Dave. Are you channeling your inner messenger13? :D

John, any LEO that offers me a non-moving violation ... I'm TAKING IT!!!
LOL

I'm accountable for my actions. I've never gotten a speeding ticket that wasn't earned, and I've been let off of a few that I deserved. Notice I didn't say "got out of", there's a distinct difference. LEO wants to talk, I'll talk. LEO wants to write, I'll sign. Just don't expect me to automatically admit to doing something of which I'm not guilty.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
hoog62 said:
First let me say that no good deed goes unpunished. Now...let me play devil's advocate here...

Was it a chicken shit pull? Be honest, Did you give the guy a break because he looked like he really needed it, or because the pull was borderline at best?

You say A moving violation.....$173 to $300...3 to 6 points...you're waffling. Which was it? Or, are you talking multiple tickets driving up the $$ and points? Trumping up a careless charge on top of simple speeding doesn't endear you to your new roadside friend...you realize that, right? If he was TRULY doing something that warrants $300 and six points, you weren't doing the rest of us any favors by letting him slide and solidifying in his mind what ge was doing wasn't so bad.

From his perspective, maybe getting pulled for something he felt was wrong to begin with only gets MORE chicken shit if you decide to give him an "inconvenience" ticket rather than just letting him off altogether. He can see your knocking it down as an acknowledgement that the "reason" you pulled him over to begin with was bogus. If he was speeding, write him for speeding or let him go with a warning.

Think about it as separate offences rather than a single stop. Honestly, whether it is technically an ticketable offence or not, I'd be pissed too if you wrote me for no reg if the plate came back in my name and I had a matching ID.



And...I doubt the write says you lost a weeks pay for a $10 ticket, but that's between you and whoever slapped you.
Dan,
I was trying to keep my post short however, to state that I was not waffling, I will start from the beginning.

I was in the right lane of a three lane road. I watched the subject in the left lane move to the middle lane, speed up, then cut the car off that he passed, almost clipping the car that was in the middle lane. Both times he made this pass he failed to us his turn signal. Sure I could stretch the improper passing, but I definitely had one\more no signal stop, which I stopped him for.

Once stopped, and this were I totally agree with you Dan, he stated that he signaled. So not to get in a pissing contest, or fear of a complaint, plus while talking to this person, he seemed mentally slow. I felt sorry for this chap, plus he had a cane next to him in the passenger seat.

The gentleman even shook my hand and then thanked me after I issued him the registration citation. In the Internal Affairs investigation the gentleman stated the reason he did not speak up when I wrote him the registration ticket and in fact he did, he stated he was "scared".

I lost 40 hours of work. 10 for falsifying an official document and 30 for not being trueful/not giving information in a IA investigation.

This is all public record so anyone can ask for a copy of the investigation.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
DanDiver said:
I had that happen to me, in a company car, at least 10 years ago on my way from Orlando to Daytona. Got pulled over for speeding (yes I was over the speed limit) and as I pulled over, I removed my seatbelt to get out my license. Florida had recently raised the cost of a ticket and there were a lot of complaints about the fact that the cost of a ticket was more than the average working person made in a week.

The officer noted that I did not have on my seatbelt and said that he was going to write me up for that, implying instead of a speeding ticket and to slow down. I was not going to argue that the reason I didn't have on a seat belt was to get out my license and I was in no way going to complain to anyone. He did his job, got me to slow down and I was grateful.

John, the person in question was simply an A#@ and making it hard for the rest of us..
This was my argument during the investigation. Officer's do this all the time. They lower the speed on citations or judges even change the offense to a plea. IE first time DUI to reckeless, where the person was found asleep behind the wheel.
 

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Before I jump you, couple'a questions.
You said you got 10 for falsifying a document. That, I assume, is the citation? How did you falsify? It implies that you knowingly wrote incorrect information. What did I miss here? Or, did you KNOW that he had his registration, but wrote him for NOT having it? If so, that was the wrong thing to do.
You also say you got 30 for being untruthful in an IA investigation. If you did in fact lie to investigators, you should have been fired. I don't see that as any different that purgery.
I say this as a retired LEO. Intentionally lying, under any circumstance, is just flat wrong.
Have I cut people breaks? Oh hell yes - but not by lying. I've written speeding tickets for way less than I've caught people for. The way I'd do this is to ask them (hypothetical details here), if you were going 100 mph in a 55 zone, do you agree that, while you were stopping for me, that you passed from 100 to, say, 65?. They'd agree, and I'd write them for 65. Never had a complaint.
I could go on with numerous examples, but the bottom line, if you're a police office, lying has no place in your work.
I hope I've misunderstood something here.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
fpmlt said:
Before I jump you, couple'a questions.
You said you got 10 for falsifying a document. That, I assume, is the citation? How did you falsify? It implies that you knowingly wrote incorrect information. What did I miss here? Or, did you KNOW that he had his registration, but wrote him for NOT having it? If so, that was the wrong thing to do.
You also say you got 30 for being untruthful in an IA investigation. If you did in fact lie to investigators, you should have been fired. I don't see that as any different that purgery.
I say this as a retired LEO. Intentionally lying, under any circumstance, is just flat wrong.
Have I cut people breaks? Oh hell yes - but not by lying. I've written speeding tickets for way less than I've caught people for. The way I'd do this is to ask them (hypothetical details here), if you were going 100 mph in a 55 zone, do you agree that, while you were stopping for me, that you passed from 100 to, say, 65?. They'd agree, and I'd write them for 65. Never had a complaint.
I could go on with numerous examples, but the bottom line, if you're a police office, lying has no place in your work.
I hope I've misunderstood something here.
I NEVER saw his registration......... In my interview I was asked if he "displayed" his registration and I stated yes. I never added a qualification statement to nor was a follow up questions asked. I was asked in interview if the driver game me his license, registration, and insurance. I answered with, I know I got his license and not sure about the registration or insurance, because I never looked at it.

My rebuttal letter I wrote, because it was not asked that he displayed his registration, but I never saw it. I just slapped it on the car seat. Chicken $hit, yup, but I was cutting the guy a $10 break, more than what the Trooper did to me in Nebraska.

And the best part of it had I lied from the beginning ie, never saw or touched his registration, IA had the registration dusted for prints, mine were not on his registration, I would never been suspended or writing this posted. lol


And asking someone if the were going 55 at one time is like me not "seeing" your registration. Also on the citation I sure it states that the person was issued this citation for being stopped or clocked for a certain speed, however you falsified the document, but giving/cutting them a break. We all do it and not saying you are right or I am wrong. Judges cut deals all the time.
 

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I won't argue with you, as I do understand where you're coming from. LE is a game, and often times a game of words. For example: "I NEVER saw his registration......... In my interview I was asked if he "displayed" his registration and I stated yes". Were I the investigator, I would want to understand how something could be "displayed", but not seen. If one did not see something, how would one know it was displayed?
And in my case, let's say I bag a violator for 100 mph on radar, turn and stop him. Did I not "see", therefore "know" that he/she was travelling at 99, 98, 97 etc as I followed him to a stop? Had I not witnessed the violation, I'd not have taken action on it. I would only write what I observed, or could prove.
Here's another example, and one I'm damned proud of. I had stopped a fella three times for a specific violation, warning him twice. The third time I stopped him, over a months time frame, he climbed up my ass telling me that I wouldn't make a pimple on a real cops ass (perhaps true, but harsh none the less). I didn't get mad, just asked for his registration, insurance etc. I observed that he had signed his registration form in pencil, not in ink as required by law. I warned him for the violation that I had stopped him for on three occasions, but wrote a ticket for failing to sign his registration in ink. Admittedly I did it to piss him off, which I accomplished, but it was an observed violation, therefore legitimate.
I will reiterate two things:
1) I do understand your intent, and it is commendable
2) there is absolutely no room in LE for lying, in any fashion.
My last comment on this is: if you wanted to cut the guy a break, warn him and let him go as I did the first two times I stopped my favorite violator. If you felt compelled to write a ticket, I would ask if you were playing a numbers game, which I don't particularly agree with.
In my career I was extremely fortunate to have worked fatal crash and crime scene reconstruction, and only patrolled when things got slow. I never played with numbers. I wrote what was there, and if that meant patrolling for 10 hours without writing a ticket, so be it.
I truly am sorry that you suffered for trying to do what you thought was right. Learn and move on. Take care of you, and your family first.
Best to you in your career.
Frank
 

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Discussion Starter #16
fpmlt said:
I won't argue with you, as I do understand where you're coming from. LE is a game, and often times a game of words. For example: "I NEVER saw his registration......... In my interview I was asked if he "displayed" his registration and I stated yes". Were I the investigator, I would want to understand how something could be "displayed", but not seen. If one did not see something, how would one know it was displayed?
And in my case, let's say I bag a violator for 100 mph on radar, turn and stop him. Did I not "see", therefore "know" that he/she was travelling at 99, 98, 97 etc as I followed him to a stop? Had I not witnessed the violation, I'd not have taken action on it. I would only write what I observed, or could prove.
Here's another example, and one I'm damned proud of. I had stopped a fella three times for a specific violation, warning him twice. The third time I stopped him, over a months time frame, he climbed up my ass telling me that I wouldn't make a pimple on a real cops ass (perhaps true, but harsh none the less). I didn't get mad, just asked for his registration, insurance etc. I observed that he had signed his registration form in pencil, not in ink as required by law. I warned him for the violation that I had stopped him for on three occasions, but wrote a ticket for failing to sign his registration in ink. Admittedly I did it to piss him off, which I accomplished, but it was an observed violation, therefore legitimate.
I will reiterate two things:
1) I do understand your intent, and it is commendable
2) there is absolutely no room in LE for lying, in any fashion.
My last comment on this is: if you wanted to cut the guy a break, warn him and let him go as I did the first two times I stopped my favorite violator. If you felt compelled to write a ticket, I would ask if you were playing a numbers game, which I don't particularly agree with.
In my career I was extremely fortunate to have worked fatal crash and crime scene reconstruction, and only patrolled when things got slow. I never played with numbers. I wrote what was there, and if that meant patrolling for 10 hours without writing a ticket, so be it.
I truly am sorry that you suffered for trying to do what you thought was right. Learn and move on. Take care of you, and your family first.
Best to you in your career.
Frank
Frank,
I have never lied and never will. Yes, a word game. I do not understand what you mean playing a numbers game?? I wanted to turn in a ticket. I enjoy traffic enforcement was on the traffic squad for 16 years, felt sorry for the guy and $173 thought and think is pretty high fine.
 

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Ding Ding....Everybody back in their corners. Issue sufficiently beat into submission.

From the article you linked us to, it says they exonerated you. Does that mean they
gave you back your week's worth of pay?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
jbrown said:
Ding Ding....Everybody back in their corners. Issue sufficiently beat into submission.

From the article you linked us to, it says they exonerated you. Does that mean they
gave you back your week's worth of pay?

What that means in the article is that FDLE (Florida Department of Law Enforcement) did not want and did not see anything to punish my LEO certificate as I was already punished by my agency.

I had a hearing scheduled in October of 2010 where I could have been disciplined, and or fired. It was a very stressful time in my life and very bad mark in my career. Any way FDLE thought this was ridiculous and there was never a hearing.

I had bought FDLE findings to my union rep. in hopes that it would be overturn, but never heard back. I am just this is over.

There reason for this posting was to get a outside, no LEO opinion. I thank all the response and see that I was normal. lol

I can a sure you that I do not take it out on the person/s I pull over. I now just let the person go with no citation issued and do not worry about ticket numbers. If I want to give that person a break.
 

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motorman587 said:
If you were pulled over for a moving violation, which would've cost you about $173 to $300, and the officer offered you a $10 "didn't have your registration", ticket would you take it?? No points vs. 3 to 6 points.

Fact is that you did have your registration, but the officer was trying to cut you a break, during this hard times. Would you file a complaint, because you had it, but you never stated it to the officer at the time. Nor did the officer see the registration, but he did ask for it.

Yup I got burned bad a few months ago. Trying to get a guy a break, and he complained. Lost a weeks pay for $10 ticket, so if the officer doesn't cut you a break, he may have gotten burnt.
John,

I currently work in our IA Unit. Guess what? There are more people than you will ever believe who call wanting to complain about the same thing. "I was stopped for speeding and the officer said he was dropping the speed a bit because what he caught me at required a court appearance with a judge. He said if he lowered it just a bit I had a month to mail the fine or pay by credit card AND saved a point on my license." Can you believe it? We get them just like yours too. They get stopped for a moving violation and don't have there VALID license with them. The officer uses their discretion and writes the citation for only the license which is a much lower fine and NO points. Again, they complain! As a result I personally tell officers who ask, "Write 'em for whatever you stop 'em for and whatever else you let them know you noticed."

I just find it amazing that an officer will show somebody some compassion, they know it and still want to complain about it.

Chris
 

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fpmlt said:
I will reiterate two things:
1) I do understand your intent, and it is commendable
2) there is absolutely no room in LE for lying, in any fashion.

Frank
I can tell you Frank is 100% correct about number 2. We can do a lot of seemingly crazy things in law enforcement. Be honest about it, take your lumps and move on. But get caught in a lie about ANYTHING no matter how seemingly minor, you're out the door quicker than you can imagine.
 
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