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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just took off on our vacation. Passing through Illinois, Wisconsin, and Minnesota I'm really surprised at the unhelmeted majority. Not only that, how do people ride with no windshield, no helmet, and no glasses? They must have 2 glass eyes!

Mandatory seat belt laws but no mandatory helmet laws? :confused:
 

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perniculous said:
Not only that, how do people ride with no windshield, no helmet, and no glasses? They must have 2 glass eyes!

They were wearing glasses. You just couldn't see tham through your face shield

Mandatory seat belt laws but no mandatory helmet laws? :confused:
Yeah the politicians in this communist part of the country are dumba**es. They just make laws that create cashflow. I don't understand why we should live our lives to other peoples expectations..
P.S. Helmet laws suck...freedom of choice or they may outlaw your motorcycle completely because they are dangerous!
 

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Freedom of choice...good. Plain ole freedom...best. Google "motorcycle accidents" and check out the riders choices.
 

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Always amazes me when the old time 'ABATE' crowd shows up..............They all have stories about how their lives were saved by being able to hear and use their peripheral vision to save them selves....................Twice I've been asked by these missing links to donate to some one in the hospital with head injuries..............they are generally called 'Donors'....................... :(
 

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I always wear a helmet now. OK , there was the time we went to Myrtle Beach, 8 years or so ago, and rode the strip at 10 mph for about 1 mile... helmetless. I still feel the shame. :eek:

I don't know how they can ride w/ no windscreen/ fairing, helmet, and still see, especially once they get above 45 mph.

However, I don't care if there is a law to make helmets mandatory or not, and I try not to tell others that they must wear a helmet. If the riders of this forum are the "typical" BMW riders, most have been riding a very long time. If that's the case, remember when we started- there was no "safety gear" (or if there was, I was too young and poor to care), and I don't remember if there was a helmet law. I didn't care if there was and I rode with my long, pony-tailed hair getting tangled up in the wind (that was stupid... yanking hair out of my head every night trying to comb out tangles) as I wound out my Yami 100 on hiways, dirtways, or anyways I could get it. My safety gear consisted of blue jeans, whatever shoes I owned (didn't pay attention), and a t-shirt or button-up whatdya call it (cowboy-type, striped horizontally and vertically) shirt. I don't think I knew what gloves were, I lived in El Paso (don't believe they sell gloves there). All I cared about was scoring some pocket change to fill the gas tank up. I don't remember people lecturing me on the perils of riding without gear, and would have laughed at them (and maybe mugged them if my friends were with me... just kidding, sort of) pretty long and hard.

Nowadays, I do cringe a little when I see folks out without gear (thinkiing about how that flesh could react when it is introduced to a harder surface), esp. women for some reason... maybe it's my old age and the fact I now realize I'm not immortal.

Anywho, people have to make choices.
 

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2Wheelroadtrip said:
Yeah the politicians in this communist part of the country are dumba**es. They just make laws that create cashflow. I don't understand why we should live our lives to other peoples expectations..
P.S. Helmet laws suck...freedom of choice or they may outlaw your motorcycle completely because they are dangerous!
Anyone who thinks a serious head injury only affects them is an idiot. That is why we have to keep adding what should be unnecessary laws to protect the general public from the stupidity of others. Now we are having to have laws introduced to keep people from TEXTING while driving!
 

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Never ride without a helmet myself, but the last thing we need is more laws. Granted a head injury may affect (not harm) more than just the person involved but where does it stop? There are head injuries in auto accidents as well, should we make it mandatory for vehicle occupants to wear helmets, kevlar..... where does it stop? I just think we as a so called free society are more than regulated enough. If it is likely to harm someone else ie. texting while driving that is a little more understandable. Just my .02 cents.
 

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RonKMiller said:
...and the number one reason for wearing ONLY a one piece full face helmet:
Ron, what are the graphics supposed to represent? A study of damage to the left and right side of helmets based on the percentage of the total sample that incurred damage in those locations? Who did the study, what was the sample size, and most importantly, what was the relative severity in each area and why are modular or flip-ups excluded from your stamp of approval?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
In Michigan where I live, the unhelmeted would definitely affect others. We have what's called "Catastrophic Claims" premiums added to our motor vehicle insurance rates for big dollar ongoing medical care for vehicle accidents. About 10 years ago we got some money back, but now we pay more for it.

Unless an unhelmeted rider buys the farm, we're all stuck paying for the almost organ donor.

That said, the BUGS IN FACE would bother me more!

---

furthermore there shouldn't be seat belt laws in states that choose not to have helmet laws.
 

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perniculous said:
Just took off on our vacation. Passing through Illinois, Wisconsin, and Minnesota I'm really surprised at the unhelmeted majority. Not only that, how do people ride with no windshield, no helmet, and no glasses? They must have 2 glass eyes!

Mandatory seat belt laws but no mandatory helmet laws? :confused:

Until you have road 10 to 15 years without a helmet and road weeks with your brothers bar hopping halfway across the us and back you ain't lived!!!!!

Lots of of people are scared of their bikes without full armor from king Arthur's day,,

Riding on the very edge of of eternity when your young is better than drugs... try one time set the throttle at 100 MPH on a fairly straight 2 lane highway, Put the front tire on the white stripes and stay on the line for 15 miles,,, Pure Nirvana,, till you do you will never know what life is all about being between 2 cars going in opposite directions and you in the middle,,,makes me want my chopper back.........Pete
 

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When I Google "motorcycle accidents", I always learn something from at least one accident. The latest accident in the Houston area resulted in one death (38 year old female) and critically injured a retired LEO (56 year old male).

"Investigators suspect freshly poured, uneven and unmarked pavement may have caused the tragic accident. An old friend of Gilchrist who happened to witness the crash without knowing it was Gilchrist at the time, was so disturbed that he investigated the situation after the scene was cleared and said the nearest signs warning of "uneven pavement" were 1.5 miles from the crash site. The height difference between the new pavement and the adjoining pavement measures almost 3 inches, he said."

Lesson here: Construction zones are killers and expect very poor road conditions.

Here's the video:
http://www.familybadge.org/(S(zgmt1...ry=News+1-2&newsletterid=13267&menugroup=Home
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
petepeterson said:
Until you have road 10 to 15 years without a helmet and road weeks with your brothers bar hopping halfway across the us and back you ain't lived!!!!!

Lots of of people are scared of their bikes without full armor from king Arthur's day,,

Riding on the very edge of of eternity when your young is better than drugs... try one time set the throttle at 100 MPH on a fairly straight 2 lane highway, Put the front tire on the white stripes and stay on the line for 15 miles,,, Pure Nirvana,, till you do you will never know what life is all about being between 2 cars going in opposite directions and you in the middle,,,makes me want my chopper back.........Pete

Ok, just did that in a jockstrap and fire helmet. What's next? :D
 

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perniculous said:
In Michigan ... We have what's called "Catastrophic Claims" premiums added to our motor vehicle insurance rates for big dollar ongoing medical care for vehicle accidents.
Unless an unhelmeted rider buys the farm, we're all stuck paying for the almost organ donor.
My latest insurance bill shows I'm paying $105.00 per vehicle per year into the MCCA fund. Multiply that times 4 vehicles.

Also, I have my old helmet for 'show and tell' resembling the one in the link posted above by Michael that seems to convince anyone I show it to that full face is the way to go. I had a closed-head injury because of the severity from the crash but still have my chin!
 

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When I see people riding without helmet and other gear I refer to the as JMA, Junior Motorcyclists of America. I do that because I don't think they are serious bikers. I don't think anyone who rides seriously would dress that way. But it's their choice and I am all for freedom of choice. Don't believe in helmet laws, seat belt laws, drug laws. Don't think the government has any business telling us what we should wear or not wear, smoke or not smoke, etc. It's simply not their business and we would all be better off if they would stop trying to govern our daily activities and stuck to trying to run a decent postal service and helping the world be a safer more congenial place...and maybe creating some better trade agreements.
I don't use drugs, I do wear ATGATT, but I don't need the government to tell me to do that. If others make other choices re drugs and gear, that's their business, not mine and certainly not the business of the state, local, or federal government.
 

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While I'm now an ATGATT person I wasn't always one. However I still believe in freedom of choice and free enterprise. I became ATGATT in stages. Losing a cousin to a motorcycle accident due to head trauma when no other serious injuries were present, convinced me to make the choice of a full face helmet. A friend who got road rash (arm shoulder & back) got me wearing a jacket and gloves (in those days it was leather or denim and there was no body armor). Having another cousin (little brother of the one who died) spend hours picking gravel out of his posterior and legs got me wearing only long heavy pants and boots (again only leather or heavy cloth were available). About 10 - 15 years ago I started wearing full clothing with body armor.

On the side of free enterprise, don't need Nanny State laws ( I oppose mandatory seat belt laws although I always wear one when caging). The insurance companies could easily make the choice crystal clear and reduce their exposure. If you don't wear a helmet, your insurance doesn't cover head trauma, if you don't wear protective clothing, your insurance doesn't cover body injuries, if your caging and crash, all occupants not wearing seat belts are not covered for personal injuries. That would allow freedom of choice and make free enterprise the beneficiary. Reward due diligence, and let folks be responsible for the consequences of their own actions.

I believe that freedom of choice demands personal responsibility, not bleeding hearts crying "somebody should have made me do the right thing."
 

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Moot said:
Ron, what are the graphics supposed to represent? A study of damage to the left and right side of helmets based on the percentage of the total sample that incurred damage in those locations? Who did the study, what was the sample size, and most importantly, what was the relative severity in each area and why are modular or flip-ups excluded from your stamp of approval?
"The diagrams (below) show the impact areas on crash-involved motorcycle helmets. (Source: Dietmar Otte, Hannover Medical University, Dept. of Traffic Accident Research, Germany.) Note that 35% of all crashes showed major impact on the chin-bar area. This means that if you ride with an open-face helmet, you are accepting only 65% of the protection that could be available to your head.

If you ride with a shorty or half helmet, you are accepting only 39% of the protection you could obtain. You are literally throwing away 61% of the protection you would have had had you chosen a full-face helmet."


I hit a deer when I was 19 on my H1 500 and landed on my face at 55mph. It knocked me out but I survived with a minor concussion and some road rash. I literally could not walk for a couple of days - it felt like someone beat me with a hose filled with lead shot. I was wearing a leather jacket, jeans, steel toe leather work boots, leather work gloves and a Bell Star full face helmet - the very FIRST one on the market. I bought it solely for the "cool" factor since it was featured in a Kawasaki "tri star" ad. My helmet looked exactly like the one Jeff has on his web site and pictured below. If I had that same accident today at 55 it would probably kill me - helmet or not.

I've never seen a study regarding the effectiveness of flip up helmets versus solid one piece, but my gut feeling is that they are not even in the ballpark regarding strength. Many of the latching mechanisms are a joke. I think we'll probably see really stout flip ups in the future with reinforcing carbon fiber rods, plates, etc. but then the penalty is always weight and complexity...






 

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BennyBob said:
The insurance companies could easily make the choice crystal clear and reduce their exposure. If you don't wear a helmet, your insurance doesn't cover head trauma, if you don't wear protective clothing, your insurance doesn't cover body injuries, if your caging and crash, all occupants not wearing seat belts are not covered for personal injuries. That would allow freedom of choice and make free enterprise the beneficiary. Reward due diligence, and let folks be responsible for the consequences of their own actions.

I believe that freedom of choice demands personal responsibility, not bleeding hearts crying "somebody should have made me do the right thing."
Excellent ideas.
 

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perniculous said:
....Mandatory seat belt laws but no mandatory helmet laws? :confused:
Yes, perniculous, you just swerved into something, here. You need proper eye protection to see. What good does a helmet do if you're blind? I think we need mandatory windshields and eye protection laws, also! Well, in their defense, the Marxists HAVE been a little busy lately! :D
 
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