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Where they messed up is making the phone not accessible if there is no headset. Since they created separate channels for phone, rider, and passenger they should be independent. The operator should be able to figure out if there is nothing in the helmet then look to see if there is an icon on the TFT. This might explain why it works fine after I turn the phone's Bluetooth off and back on as the last step.
 

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Where they messed up is making the phone not accessible if there is no headset. Since they created separate channels for phone, rider, and passenger they should be independent. The operator should be able to figure out if there is nothing in the helmet then look to see if there is an icon on the TFT. This might explain why it works fine after I turn the phone's Bluetooth off and back on as the last step.

Not sure I fully understand what you are saying - but, there is no point having a phone accessible if you have no headset as you can’t hear or speak. The icons on the TFT indicate that a helmet (and/or passenger helmet) and a phone are connected via Bluetooth. Whether they actually work as they should is down to BMW - and as all iPhone owners know, that will be a negative. But they are actually connected, as per the icons.
 

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Today added another 350+ km trip to the list with spotless functionality from the TFT. 80% of the route was guided the rest rolling map. No issues, no drop-outs. Again I don't use voice guidance so can't comment on that but everything else worked perfectly.

Another "fun fact" I discovered thanks to a fault with the radar, the TFT is VERY quick to reconnect the maps if the ignition was off for less than a minute or two. It would suggest the TFT doesn't power down instantly, some kind of shut-down process is happening even after the screen goes dark.
 

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Discussion Starter · #225 ·
@Rich_Blue21RTLE and @The_real_hati

For clarification, the phone is paired with the Sena as a media device, it happens to be my personal phone but I suppose it could be a MP3 player or iPod.

So, the media device is playing music to the Sena and is not connected in any way to the bike.

The Sena is paired to the bike as a headset on Phone 1,

So its this:

TFT<----------------->Sena<------------------->media device

Switching on the TFT breaks the link to the media device, sounds like the TFT expects to manage music and phone, so stuff anything else that is connected.

If this is the case (unless someone disproves it), you won't be able to play music e.g. MP3 player, iPod or in my case my personal phone to your headset unless you unpair your headset from the TFT.

All of this has come about because after the TFT got a firmware update and my bike phone got an upgrade to Android 11, from that point onwards I could no longer re-start music on the bike by pressing button 1, (after the bike had been stopped for a bit). I had to take the bike phone out of the pocket and manually restart it. I suspect, the TFT restarting has broken the music on/off button on the bike just the same as the experiment above.

More testing tonight, but this is bad, very bad. I hope BMW techies are hanging their head in shame.
 

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David, yes I understand your set up and to be fair, its how I understood it in the first place.

As you have said, your phone (which we can call a media device) is connected to your Sena as a media device. Because its connected as a media device it will likely be using the A2DP Bluetooth profile so that your Sena treats and controls it as a media player.

Your Sena is also connected to the TFT using phone 1 connection on the headset. This is the bit we don’t know 100%, but it is likely to be connected to the TFT with at least (I’ll explain in a sec) a Bluetooth Hands-Free Profile so that your Sena treats your TFT as a mobile phone. Your Sena will not understand that its connected to a TFT, it will think its connected to a mobile phone. So what we were suggesting is that you have both a mobile phone Hands-Free Profile and an A2DP music profile entering into your headset. If the mobile phone (ie your TFT) is sending any kind of signal, your Sena will prioritise this signal over a music signal (ie your media device). And as you are aware you can set up your Sena to either cut the music whilst the phone is active (ie the TFT is active) or with audio multi-tasking get it to lower the sound of the music whilst the phone (TFT) is active. This might be the interference you are experiencing.

I said at least a HFP earlier - normally if you connect your Sena to a mobile phone using phone 1 connection, your Sena will receive both HFP and A2DP profiles from your phone, so that it knows what’s music and it knows what is a phone call. This allows it to control and prioritise incoming signals. What we don’t know is whether the TFT connects on one or both of these profiles and whether it is capable of separating out a phone signal and a music signal (there is another Bluetooth profile especially for sat navs so you could in fact connect over three different profiles to control and prioritise incoming signals to your headset).

I don’t know if that makes any sense as its hard to describe in a message.
 

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Discussion Starter · #227 ·
@Rich_Blue21RTLE I had to read your post a couple of times but I got there, as I have said more experimentation (and BMW testing). I am pretty sure the TFT is using both protocols as music is muted when a phone call comes in. Anyway:

1. I am going back to the original dedicated phone scenario where its phone to bike and bike to headset to see if I can work out a sequence where the bike will re-connect properly and allow me to re-start music from the bike button.

2. Another, perhaps more promising scenario, is to pair the Sena to the TFT as a Sat Nav and connect it to my personal phone as phone 1 which should give me HFP and A2DP on my personal phone and simply use the bike phone for navigation.

Anyone know how to send our bills for testing to BMW?
 

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On my Cardo, the TFT was announced as a GPS device, despite connecting it to the mobile phone "slot" on the headset. Just to complicate things further :D

I think having only one phone is the way to go, too easy to get the setup wrong given the lack of information how the TFT connects and what protocols it uses.
 

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@Rich_Blue21RTLE

I am pretty sure the TFT is using both protocols as music is muted when a phone call comes in.
I did consider that it uses both and that of course, would be the correct way to do things (which is what makes me doubt that it is done this way !!) It is still possible that the TFT receives HFP and A2DP from your connected phone, deals with them, controls them, prioritises them and sends it out to your headset within one HFP profile. Could explain that the wonder wheel volume control controls all volume levels together in one (appreciate it doesn’t work with our headsets) and why there is a separate volume control within the app for spoken instructions.

I‘m fairly confident that the music and spoken instructions are combined under one profile which is then managed by the connected ride app - I’m thinking this because after the last update to the iPhone app, the music is now lowered into the background when spoken instruction is given, and the only thing that has changed for me is the update to the app.

We could do with knowing what protocols the TFT uses and how its all connected - would help to iron out connectivity issues and competing demands.
 

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What works for me is the following configuration. Ik connect my iPhone 7 as a bike phone to my TFT. This phone has been stripped as much as possible, has no SIM card and only uses the BMW Connected App, the My Route App and Apple Music. The Wifi of my bike is the only one selected for automatic connection. This phone is not connected to my Cardo Packtalk Black. Only my TFT is connected to my Cardo. My personal phone, an iPhone 11 Max Pro, is connected to the second channel of my Cardo. I can use this phone for making calls (which I don't while driving). Once Apple Music has started, I can also hear navigation instructions. With te radio on, I can't. That's a bug which needs to be solved by BMW. I must say this configuration works for me and seems to be quite stable so far. I'm using the latest version of both IOS and the BMW Connected App.

Rob
 

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It is still possible that the TFT receives HFP and A2DP from your connected phone, deals with them, controls them, prioritises them and sends it out to your headset within one HFP profile.
I don’t believe this to be the case. Because if music coming to your headset from the TFT was using the HFP profile, it wouldn’t be in stereo. A2DP gives you the stereo music. The HFP profile doesn’t have enough bandwidth to send stereo music.
 

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Must admit that I haven’t listened that closely to decide whether the music is in fact in stereo. But you have got to be right. So back to the drawing board with what’s going wrong. It would be good to know what profiles are in use and how things are connected via the TFT. People who want dedicated bike phones could connect to the TFT in the right way and still be able to use their personal phones with the right connection to their headsets.
 

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And talking about the wonder wheel not working with non BMW headsets - I did discover by accident the other day that if you turn the wheel all the way down, the volume goes to mute - which does actually work with any headset. So if you get nothing through your non BMW headset, check that the wonder wheel is not on mute.
 

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And talking about the wonder wheel not working with non BMW headsets - I did discover by accident the other day that if you turn the wheel all the way down, the volume goes to mute - which does actually work with any headset. So if you get nothing through your non BMW headset, check that the wonder wheel is not on mute.
You also get the symbol on the TFT for mute.
 
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Today added another 350+ km trip to the list with spotless functionality from the TFT. 80% of the route was guided the rest rolling map. No issues, no drop-outs. Again I don't use voice guidance so can't comment on that but everything else worked perfectly.
I’d really be interested to hear how voice guidance works for you.
 

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I’d really be interested to hear how voice guidance works for you.
I could try it but I'm almost certain it will just piss me off and prompt me to uncheck itf again. The main reason I don't use it is because the GPS I used (Zumo XT) had a bad case of warning noise that you could not turn off until they fixed it with an update and used to disconnect the intercom conversations so I just learnt to follow the visual guidance without voice and now I don't miss it.

I will try to remember to test it next time I go out for a ride and let you know what happens. Before these updates I had it on for the first ride or two before I had a chance to get into the settings and turn it off. From memory it worked once and then it stopped. The phone was working though even when the voice guidance was off. It'll be the weekend though before I get a chance to ride the bike again.
 

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And talking about the wonder wheel not working with non BMW headsets - I did discover by accident the other day that if you turn the wheel all the way down, the volume goes to mute - which does actually work with any headset. So if you get nothing through your non BMW headset, check that the wonder wheel is not on mute.
As well as the usual connection issues mentioned throughout this thread, I can also advise that even with a BMW headset, turning the wheel, doesn't change the volume, it only mutes it when it goes down to zero bars in the volume display.

Anyone know of good point of contact within BMW to send a complaint to regarding the issues with connectivity with the TFT?
 
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