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Well, I was riding down my driveway a short time ago and the LT started to lose power. It would restart and then slowly die. After a couple of starts, it wouldn't even fire.

Based on all of shared experience here, I suspected the fuel lines. Removed the cap (tank was just filled) and turned on the key and the gas nearly swirled out of the tank. I guess 7 years is all these hoses can take with our 10% ethanol poisoned fuel.

The interesting part is that I had just returned from a 4,730 mile trip to Newfoundland. This was the first ride after returning and I got less than 1/4 mile. It is good to have God watching out for you! :)

I am curious to see if the problem is a hose or the Beemer Boneyard clamps I used when I replaced the fuel filter 3 years and 19,000 miles ago. I almost bought the Oetikers and installation tool, but decided to give the BBY clamps a try since they came with the maintenance kit.

Now to drain out 6 gallons of fuel. Not sure I have an empty can that size...
 

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Very lucky indeed! Mine is 10 years old but I am carrying a spare "U" hose just incase. Last time I had the filter out the hose looked fine. Just never know. I have used fuel almost exclusively from Shell when I could and most pumps said may contain 10% crap. Maybe the Shell crap is better!?!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Very lucky indeed! Mine is 10 years old but I am carrying a spare "U" hose just incase. Last time I had the filter out the hose looked fine. Just never know. I have used fuel almost exclusively from Shell when I could and most pumps said may contain 10% crap. Maybe the Shell crap is better!?!
Could be! I have only one station in my area that carries real gas and it is 20+ miles away. I fill up there when it is convenient. I was happy that most parts of Canada appeared to have real gas ... or maybe they just aren't required to label their pumps.

I won't blame the hoses just yet as it could also be a clamp. Won't know until I go buy a hose to use to siphon out the full tank of gas that I had bought the night I returned from my trip.
 

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All gas in Canada is now 10 percent alcohol, my understanding is all fuel hose on German cars has been OK with alcohol since the 80s. I would think that if the curved hose is the one that normally fails it has more to do with the stress from forming the curve. The hoses in my 2K are original, should probably pick up a spare from the dealer.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
All gas in Canada is now 10 percent alcohol, my understanding is all fuel hose on German cars has been OK with alcohol since the 80s. I would think that if the curved hose is the one that normally fails it has more to do with the stress from forming the curve. The hoses in my 2K are original, should probably pick up a spare from the dealer.
That is unfortunate. I was hoping Canada might be smarter than the US in this regard. :)

Maybe the fuel line is ethanol tolerant, but it seems that the LT has a pretty high failure rate of fuel lines. In contrast, I just sold a 20 year old Chevy truck that still had its original fuel lines! And I replaced the front brake hoses when they were 15 years old just because I thought I should. They were still in good shape. And I have other vehicles that are 10 years old with all original rubber hoses. So why do LT fuel and brake hoses last only 7-10 years? Inquiring minds want to know. :)
 

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So why do LT fuel and brake hoses last only 7-10 years? Inquiring minds want to know. :)

For the fuel lines it could be because they're immersed in fuel instead of just having fuel flowing through them. Fuel's working on them from both sides.
Don't have a good guess on the brake lines.

I replaced my brake lines abt 2 yrs ago on my 2002 but my fuel lines are original. They looked & felt good when I changed the last filter abt 2 yrs ago.
(brake lines seemed fine when replaced too)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
For the fuel lines it could be because they're immersed in fuel instead of just having fuel flowing through them. Fuel's working on them from both sides.
Don't have a good guess on the brake lines.

I replaced my brake lines abt 2 yrs ago on my 2002 but my fuel lines are original. They looked & felt good when I changed the last filter abt 2 yrs ago.
(brake lines seemed fine when replaced too)
My Chevy truck also had its fuel pump immersed in the tank and it had one piece of rubber hose, but I believe it was a straight section. It lasted 20 years so I suspect something else is a factor with the LT system. Maybe the hose bending process as someone mentioned previously.
 

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My Chevy truck also had its fuel pump immersed in the tank and it had one piece of rubber hose, but I believe it was a straight section. It lasted 20 years so I suspect something else is a factor with the LT system. Maybe the hose bending process as someone mentioned previously.
Yeah, I guess most (if not all) cars & trucks have the pump in the tank since fuel injection became the norm. I've only replaced one inside the tank pump on a car many years back, but I don't think it had any rubber hoses inside the tank. On a somewhat related note. I never replaced the brake fluid on any of my trucks or cars & never had any hydraulic problems with any of them until more like 20yrs. Yeah, I got no clue? You can bet I replace my bikes brake fluid at least every other year though.
 

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I didn't check the hose in the tank.But one of my gas lines outside was gummy so I replaced it with gates barricade FI line which is formulated to stand up to the different additives in gas these days... (not submersible)
 

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Yeah, I guess most (if not all) cars & trucks have the pump in the tank since fuel injection became the norm. I've only replaced one inside the tank pump on a car many years back, but I don't think it had any rubber hoses inside the tank. On a somewhat related note. I never replaced the brake fluid on any of my trucks or cars & never had any hydraulic problems with any of them until more like 20yrs. Yeah, I got no clue? You can bet I replace my bikes brake fluid at least every other year though.
the power brake pump motors inside the module probably use the brake fluid for lubrication same as the fuel pump in the gas tank uses the gas for lubrication, surprised me a bit first pump I removed from one of my VW's with fuel injection, pump in tank. Probably wise to change the brake fluid every year

the early fuel injected VW's (1970's) had a lift pump on floating pick-up in tank and a high pressure pump outside the tank.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Hypothesis confirmed. I removed the fuel pump and filter assembly and there is a hole in the U-hose at the top of the assembly. I will replace both hoses though as if one went the other may not be far behind. Since this failed on the outside of the bend just past the fitting, at what is probably the point of highest tensile stress, I suspect this is another design defect from BMW. It is just not smart to have a hose that is under fairly high pressure have such a tight radius and be submerged in gasoline. They should have made a bent metal tube for this location and just had a short straight hose section to connect it to the filter more like the slightly bent hose at the other end of the filter.

I am curious to know from others who have had these hoses fail, was your failure always the U-shaped hose or has the shorter and straighter hose failed also? Was your failure on the outside of the bend? Or have failures occurred on the inside as well?

I will attempt to attach two pictures:
1. A picture that confirms you can remove the fuel pump assembly with the tank on the bike. I know there was a raucous discussion about this some time ago so I decided to try that route first. Worked great. Removed the right side panel and the lower fairing and the crash bar. The hardest part was getting all of the tie wraps cut for the wiring and hoses so I could swing the crash bar out of the way without having to remove the one connecter that is attached to the bar.
2. A picture showing the location of the breech in the hose.

It took me less than an hour and that including siphoning out a full tank of gas. The siphon was pretty effective as I lost only a small amount of gas when I unscrewed the pump.

I will also note that the screw type hose clamps provided by Beemer Boneyard worked well. They have been on the bike for 3 years and about 19,000 miles and are still well in place as you may be able to see in the pictures. So, I have no concern using these type of clamps even though I know others have had problems in the past. I personally suspect the problems are due to either using improper hoses or improper tightening. Most people over-tighten all fasteners, including hose clamps. I have used the general rule of thumb that the OD of the clamp once tightened should be about the same as the OD of the hose itself. So you are really only clamping down about the thickness of the clamp itself. I have installed hose clamps this way for nearly 40 years with good results. I see many hose clamps so tight that the hose is bulging where it exits the clamp. This is generally not a good thing. Any more than the bulge above my belt is a good thing... :)

Now off to order parts...
 

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Thanks for the update.
Looks like a good time to bleed your clutch too.;)

later..Randy
 

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my first thought when I was changing the filter was - get rid of that short curved hose and use a piece about a foot long to get a big curve - not something they would want to do in production since it would add a bit of time feeding the loose hose into the tank.

agree with you re clamps, part of the reason I changed hoses outside tank last winter was because I had a tiny leak one hose on metal connection exiting tank and had to temp over tighten hose clamp to stop it and get to end of season, drip on start at overnight cold temps in fall, - hoses were losing flexibility with age (like me :))
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thanks for the update.
Looks like a good time to bleed your clutch too.;)

later..Randy
The clutch is slipping and needs to be replaced. Fluid flush will occur then. :)

You can see the oil seepage at the case seams so I am pretty sure the problem is oil contamination. I hope to get through the summer before having to tear into the clutch. That is a much better winter job.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Still can't believe the price of these hoses. Now that I see how easy it is to get the pump out, I may risk some experimentation here. It seems to me that the u-hose could be replaced with a u-shape metal line with short straight hoses to connect to the filter and existing metal line. Wonder where I can find a short piece of tubing with the flared ends needed to hold the hoses on...
 

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Discussion Starter #18

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The clutch is slipping and needs to be replaced. Fluid flush will occur then. :)

You can see the oil seepage at the case seams so I am pretty sure the problem is oil contamination. I hope to get through the summer before having to tear into the clutch. That is a much better winter job.
I was looking at the sight glass and it is empty!

On another note this pump removal process was defined to be done on the side stand to pull residual fuel away from the pump. Looks like that may not be necessary if you do a good siphon. Also I have seen a few of these hoses with a split right in the middle of the bend on the side. But in every case they were along the length of the hose and not across it.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I was looking at the sight glass and it is empty!

On another note this pump removal process was defined to be done on the side stand to pull residual fuel away from the pump. Looks like that may not be necessary if you do a good siphon. Also I have seen a few of these hoses with a split right in the middle of the bend on the side. But in every case they were along the length of the hose and not across it.
Yes, the oil level is right at the bottom of the sight glass. I just returned from a 4700 mile trip and had 500+ miles on the oil before I left. My LT will use about this much oil during each change interval. When the oil is at the bottom of the sight glass, it is usually due for a change. It has used this much oil pretty much since day one.

I prefer working on the center stand, particularly if I have to strip both sides of the bike. Since I wasn't sure if the tank on bike process would work, I was prepared to remove the tank if necessary. I used a siphon pump designed for filling a kerosene heater and it worked great. I wasn't sure the tube was getting to the tank bottom, but I removed close to six gallons and very little came out with the pump. So, I'd say the side stand won't hurt, but is bot required.
 
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