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Discussion Starter #1
Should smoking be banned in private business, stores, restaurants and bars, and parks?
I got into a heated debate (imagine that) with a friend of mine who is a city commissioner of a moderate sized city near here.
Even though I am a right wing conservative Christian, issues like this bring out the Libertarian in me. I say let the business decide!!! City buildings and property, well that’s up the the city, but private business, that’s just going to far.
I say “I know what places allow smoking, if I don’t want to be around smokers I don’t go there.”
Simple. Not really because then he pulls out the health issue. Well if that’s the case then be consistent and ban trans fats, booze, guns, and motorcycles. Also his city has been trying for years to outlaw a titty bar that has been there long before it was annexed into the city!
Also he is a “non smoker” except that he smokes cigars!
Watch out, we will be next! The nanny state is looking out for you!
 

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Hi,

I'm a smoker ( I've been trying unsuccessfully to give up for some time) about to have another bash.

I don't have a problem with banning smoking in public indoor places, in fact, since these rules came in in this country, I've actually reduced the number of ciggies I smoke when out quite a bit, and find the atmosphere in Pubs, Clubs etc much nicer for the lack of smoke.

If you want to light one up, go outside, and if it's pissing down with rain, you have a choice, smoke and get wet, or don't smoke. I don't have a problem going 7 or 8 hours when I sleep, or when on a long haul flight, so a couple of hours when I'm out for an evening has become less of an issue as time goes on.

On the other hand, as the Government is now loosing huge sums of Tax revenue because so mnay are giving up, or have reduced their intake of cancer giving smokes, they have to find additional ways of getting our money in the form of new taxes.
 

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Old Slow Guy in A Fast Car
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It's banned in ANY public building here in Austin for a few years now. At first most bars said it would run them out of business. We did loose a few clubs but we would have anyway for 1 reason or another. I know as a NON smoker I enjoy going out more not that I'm party animal
 

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Having had pneumonia 5 times and not being able to be in a smokie ba for 5 seconds without getting very short of breath, the ban here has been a godsend. I can finally go to the local pub and have a drink.
Smoking was banned in the workplace here years ago. I can't imagibe trying to work with someone puffing away next to me!!
 

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norriscooper said:
. . . be consistent and ban trans fats, booze, guns, and motorcycles.
They're working on it. Funny thing is, it's usually the right wing conservative christian folks who think they can dictate how everyone else lives. ;)

My wife gets physically ill around smokers. Even if they're not smoking at the moment, the smell permeates their hair, clothes, and everything they own. I don't have quite as strong a reaction in that I can put up with the smell, but why should I have to?

We were living in the UK when the smoking bans started really taking effect over there. Many restaurants had a small, non-smoking section that was separated from the smoking section by nothing more than some imaginary line, meaning there was pretty much no difference. After the ban, we found going out to restaurants and pubs much more enjoyable, as did quite a lot of folks. The pubs also screamed that it would force them out of business, but I think most of them actually got more traffic afterwards.

While I'm not for anyone telling me how to live, I am against someone invading my personal space with their nasty addictions.

Maybe they could set up a few specific smoking-only places? Sort of like the old opium dens. At least you would be recognizing the addiction in that case. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
meese said:
Funny thing is, it's usually the right wing conservative christian folks who think they can dictate how everyone else lives. ;)

While I'm not for anyone telling me how to live, I am against someone invading my personal space with their nasty addictions.

Maybe they could set up a few specific smoking-only places? Sort of like the old opium dens. At least you would be recognizing the addiction in that case. :)
First you shouldn't stereotype us. And secondly it's not your space, it belongs to the restaurant or pub.

They do have smoking sections in the restaurant around here that do allow smoking, they are placed when the vents suck the air away from the nonsmokers.
For the record I do not smoke, never have, never will, I don't even drink. Not for religious reasons, just my choice. I don't like to be around smokers either!

I'm just telling you it's the nose of the ah cough-cough, Camel !

Smoke, smoke, smoke that cigarette
Puff, puff, puff until you smoke yourself to death.
Tell St. Peter at the Golden Gate
That you hate to make him wait,
But you just gotta have another cigarette.
 

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meese said:
My wife gets physically ill around smokers. Even if they're not smoking at the moment, the smell permeates their hair, clothes, and everything they own. I don't have quite as strong a reaction in that I can put up with the smell, but why should I have to?
And I get nauseated around people that don't use deodarant (or bathe), don't brush their teeth and have horrible breath and the people that use heavy amounts of perfume/colgone.
I shouldn't have to put up with them and their "nasty habits". Not to mention the people with their cigars, and the ones with chew/dip with their tobacco flecked teeth and sour breath and the ever present "spit cup".
Now, are there any other "offensive" habits or behaviors we want the government to ban, so every little drone will be happy? What about people with gas? Smelly feet?, Dirty fingernails? Greasy hair? Chew with their mouths open? Talk with mouths full of food? Chomping on gum in public? Maybe people that hum to themselves? Line em all up and mow em down, they bother me!
Seems thast people are always complaining about the government getting "too involved" in what they do when it is sayyyy wearing a helmet, seatbelts, etc. BUT! when it is something that they happen to agree with they have NO problem with big brother meddeling in other people's lives/affairs.
 

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meese said:
They're working on it. Funny thing is, it's usually the right wing conservative christian folks who think they can dictate how everyone else lives. ;)
Yeah, but it has been my experience that the self-righteous liberals who resort to tactics that restrict freedom of expression and lawsuits to press their agenda more often then the self-righteous conservative christian folks. Both are equally wrong, but it has been my experience that the liberals resort to dictating restriction or forced acceptance of how people should live their lives.
 

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norriscooper said:
Well if that’s the case then be consistent and ban trans fats, booze, guns, and motorcycles. [...]Also he is a “non smoker” except that he smokes cigars!
Watch out, we will be next! The nanny state is looking out for you!
This is an attempt at applying a logical fallacy to stir the emotions of the uninformed. You gotta try harder, as this one has been around for a long time :dance: .
The real issue is our theocratic government trying to force their values down the peoples throats that is the most scary :mad: .
 

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Just to clear up a little misconception of the term "public property". Public property is owned by GovCo. City, County, Federal office buildings, parks, etc. Bars, restaurants, businesses in general that don't stick a gun to your head and MAKE you give them your hard earned money are private property that the public is welcome to visit. If you walk in and don't like the health rating, the smells, whatever, you're free to vote with your feet, not spending a dime if you don't want to. GovCo on the other hand, will always be ready to separate you from your money.

Clear as mud?
 

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I don't smoke and am allergic to tobacco, I can acquire a sinus infection if I am around it for too long. I personally appreciate the non smoking places. It is going too far, in Louisiana they are trying to ban smoking in your car if you have a minor in the car. Next it will be in your house, bathroom, and outhouse! I think it is going too far. It goes with making choices, I should have the right to choose. When a bar gets smokey I have the choice to leave. I also have the choice to stop you from smoking in my car, house, or office, but not yours!
 

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YEA...SMOKING BANS!!!

The more restrictive the better!

In fact take it further.
Don't provide health insurance to smokers.
Make the cost of a pack of smokes the same it currently cost to buy a carton...with the extra going to quit smoking programs.
Six weekends of community service, picking up butts, for throwing a cigarette out of your car or snuffing a butt on the ground and leaving it there.

I think, on average, smokers are a pretty selfish and inconsiderate bunch. Most think nothing of blowing smoke into your next breath of air. Most think
nothing of littering the world with their butts. Nothing pisses me off more than people smoking around me. The argument that restraunts and bars are
private is crap...they are public establishments!

...and Meese, lay off the conservative/liberal bullshit you're so quick to sling. This is not a political issue...it's a quality of life issue. And as you've said
many times before... both sides pull the same shit, just on different sides of the issues and with different tactics.
 

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Tbird said:
YEA...SMOKING BANS!!!

The more restrictive the better!

In fact take it further.
Don't provide health insurance to smokers.
Make the cost of a pack of smokes the same it currently cost to buy a carton...with the extra going to quit smoking programs.
Six weekends of community service, picking up butts, for throwing a cigarette out of your car or snuffing a butt on the ground and leaving it there.

I think, on average, smokers are a pretty selfish and inconsiderate bunch. Most think nothing of blowing smoke into your next breath of air. Most think
nothing of littering the world with their butts. Nothing pisses me off more than people smoking around me. The argument that restraunts and bars are
private is crap...they are public establishments!

...and Meese, lay off the conservative/liberal bullshit you're so quick to sling. This is not a political issue...it's a quality of life issue. And as you've said
many times before... both sides pull the same shit, just on different sides of the issues and with different tactics.
Why fuck around? Ban tobacco altogether.
 

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Tbird said:
YEA...SMOKING BANS!!!

The more restrictive the better!

In fact take it further.
Don't provide health insurance to smokers.
Make the cost of a pack of smokes the same it currently cost to buy a carton.
Weeee. This is fun! Lets remove any kind of health care for people that don't wear halmets or seatbelts! After all they are risking thier lives! Now, if you get caught without either of those on, your vehicle insurance will increase by a factor of 10 and the government will get that money too!
And if you drink...sorry no health care for you either..its bad for you. Get caught DUI? Automatic 10 year prision term, no parole! AND no license when you get out..ever!
Lets see, what other controls should we let the government put on our lives? Mandatory blood pressure checks, EKG's, and cholesterol checks! If you fail any of them you are fined and your health care is revoked until you pass!
Ready to draw the line yet? Or just when it affects YOU?

Yeah! Lets just be completely asinine about this whole thing!
On a whole I think people that want to dictate how others should live, have a pole up their collective asses and should shut up and get on with living their OWN lives. When YOU are perfect, THEN and ONLY then do you have ANY room to criticize others and their habits or lack there of.

All of these self-serving, self-righteous dingleberries need to be flogged.
 

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Yeah, but I'm serious. Instead of all this bullshit fucking around with smoking bans and other stupid ideas, why don't we just ban tobacco altogether? If it's this evil substance, capable of killing so many, why the fuck is it still legal?
 

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eljeffe said:
If it's this evil substance, capable of killing so many, why the fuck is it still legal?
The same could/has been said about alcohol. Tobacco isn't a "mind altering" drug so it is doubtful it will ever be banned, unless some "mommy" types get in the position to have it banned. Of course, the tobacco industry would frown on that and the people responsible for the ban would probably wake up dead one morning. After all, its annual income of billions of $$ would be gone...not to mention the tens of millions the govt collects in taxes each year.
 

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I don't see alcohol killing nearly as many people as tobacco. And the money saved by not having people needing treatment from tobacco related illnesses should easily cover any tax revenue generated by the taxes.

I was a smoker for nearly 20 years. I gave it up 3 years ago, and even when I want one, I can't break down and have another one. I don't give a shit whether someone smokes around me, but if we're going to pussyfoot around with bans here and there, we better just shit or get off the pot and ban it completely. It's stupid to claim we're solving some problem with a bandaid fix here or there. Just ban the shit and get it over with.
 

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eljeffe said:
I don't see alcohol killing nearly as many people as tobacco.
100,000/year from alcohol vs 400,000 from tobacco...Now, once we ban tobacco, how long before they ban alcohol? Then how long before the ban on, say, fatty foods? Where does it stop? I can tell you..it won't stop. Give an inch and they'll take a mile. Give up one freedom and the next one won't seem so much, and the next one even less.....
 

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eljeffe said:
I don't see alcohol killing nearly as many people as tobacco. And the money saved by not having people needing treatment from tobacco related illnesses should easily cover any tax revenue generated by the taxes.

I was a smoker for nearly 20 years. I gave it up 3 years ago, and even when I want one, I can't break down and have another one. I don't give a shit whether someone smokes around me, but if we're going to pussyfoot around with bans here and there, we better just shit or get off the pot and ban it completely. It's stupid to claim we're solving some problem with a bandaid fix here or there. Just ban the shit and get it over with.

I agree and oddly enough have never thought about that as a solution. Norris, those things you mention...trans fats, booze, guns and motorcycles don't affect others when they are being used like smoking does and for you to use that as a basis for the action is ridiculous.
 
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