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Discussion Starter #1
I've noticed that the LT smokes a lot when i let it sit for a week between rides. Other motorcycles had a gas cutoff switch. I gather that this bike doesn't? Is there an easy method to avoid this problem?

VernRuth
 

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What Stand are you Using

If you are using the sidestand this is not unusual because on the sidestand the head is lower than the crank and sump and there is usually some residual oil pooled against the back of the pistons. As it sits some oozes into the chamber and is burned off when you start it. Recommended fix is to keep it upright for at least 30 seconds after you turn it off before setting it on the sidestand to allow the oil to drain into the sump.

If you are using the centerstand and smoking then there may be another problem that someone more knowledgeable than me can address.

For what its worth I try to always use the center stand when I park unless I'm getting gas. I just never feel comfortable on the sidestand.

Bruce
 

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The smoke after sitting is normal. As for the fuel shut-off, the bike is fuel injected so it doesn't have one.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I do use the center stand and will try your suggestion. Tried putting the beast on the center stand. It's easier to park an elephant in size seven shoe.

VernRuth
 

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Smokes off centre stand aswell

Mine smokes like crazy for about 2 minutes... Just come to ride it after a 12 day lay up on centre stand and still billows white smoke, is this normal?
 

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Could be you have too much oil in the bike... mine does that if "over" half of the sight glass.

Make sure engine has been off for about 2 minutes before checking.... so all the oil is in the "sump".
 

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RiderRay said:
The smoke after sitting is normal. As for the fuel shut-off, the bike is fuel injected so it doesn't have one.
Not to hijack this thread, but I've recently had 2 other fuel injected bikes that did have fuel shutoff valves on them, so I don't think that the fact that the K12LT is a FI bike is the only reason for having no fuel petcock

And as far as I know, the manuals for those other FI bikes don’t specify that the valves need to be turned to the ‘off’ position when the bikes are in winter or other long term storage

Another thing I've noticed is that there isn't any 'startup' lever like a choke or 'high-idle' lever on the K12LT – something that’s common to just about every other bike that I've owned, ridden or seen

Even my '06 Hayabusa (fuel injected, water cooled and very computerized) has both a fuel shutoff petcock valve, and a 'choke' type lever - I don't think that the choke lever does anything to the mixture like a regular choke cable does, but it does set the idle to around 2300RPM when on all the way, and can be set from normal idle to about 2300RPM), which helps it warm up faster ... and even if it's really cold out or if the GSX1300R hasn't been started for a while, there isn't any requirement to use this 'fast idle' switch and it can be ridden seconds after it's started just like the K12LT - but it's a nice thing to have

This 'fast idle' (and a fuel shutoff petcock valve) would have been a nice thing to include on the K12LT … not that they would be needed, but it’s always nice to have the option in case you wanted to use either of them

Remember, a lot of K12LT and GW riders are midlife crisis guys that may not have much experience with riding or bikes in general, and they will be more appealing if there’s less to learn - this is obvious just by looking at the LT or GW in the way that they’ve gone to great lengths to cover up mechanical parts with cosmetically appealing body work … nothing at all wrong with this, but it is more evidence for the probable reasons for not including things like the fuel shutoff valve

From the time that I've spend looking over the whole of the BMW bike line, I think that they are wanting to differentiate their bikes by making them operate more like a car every way that they can ... if they can make bikes that you just get on, turn the key, start them and immediately start riding, that makes it somehow seem more reliable and easy than having to worry about some weird little valve for shutting off the fuel or a lever that you have to set to fast idle when you first start up your new high-tech bike

In fact, I expect BMW to make a switch in their starting system in the next few years (decade at the most) to where the bike starts by turning the key like most 4-wheel vehicles do - I haven't seen any bikes that start this way instead of using a starter button yet, but I fully expect BMW to be on the front of that 'advancement'

For what it’s worth, if I ever end up taking my Tupperware off and I don’t find a fuel shutoff valve buried in there somewhere, I'm going to install one … there’s no reason that we can't have one on these bikes, and it may come in handy some time

And for what it's worth ... I've never ever noticed any smoke coming out of mine, and I have never used the center stand yet, although I agree with the people who use the center stand all the time - just something I need to get used to for next spring ... my 2000 LTC has 102k miles on it and I've had it parked for more than a week at a time without any smoke on startup - it hasn't been low on oil at all, and hasn't shown any other signs of the piston rings going bad

Have you checked to see if your sparkplugs are oil saturated or fouled more often than normal? ... That would be a telltale piston ring leak scenario

From what people here have posted about the oil pooling on the backs of the pistons from being on the side stand, that makes perfect sense to me - unless you are having to top up the oil all the time, I wouldn't worry about it ... if you're really concerned that it's a lot of oil, get a compression test done

The idea of turning it off and then keeping it upright, or even tipping it slightly to the right side for a second or two before leaving it on the side stand to get the oil to drain back into the sump seems like a smart way to control this smoking thing if that's where it's coming from
 

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Couple things come to me here and the biggest is WTF would you need a choke on a FI bike? My Road Glide never needed nor had a choke, neither have any of my fuel injected cars. As the computer is sensing temp and they go into a algorithms that is set in the computer until the O2 sensor get warm and then a certain temp is reached. I have a pretty good understanding as I used a Dayton Twin Tech FI module and ECU on my Road Glide and logged every second of operation. With high lift cams it was a challenge to tune starting and cold idle through TPS adjustment, but I was working on duel 50MM throttle blades also. That is the reason we had to run a ECU from DTT to overcome the stock ECU algorithms.

And why would you need or want a fuel cut off? I am not sure where you would put it as the bike has no petcock. It gets no fuel until you turn the ignition on to start it, which starts the fuel pump, so what is the sense?

Cfell I am wondering on your half full site glass comment. I have 3.7 quarts in and on the center stand, 10 minuets after running to hot, it just is to the top of the sight glass. I am just asking as on a Harley we purposely ran it a 1/4-1/2 quart down on the stick to keep it from spitting oil out of the breathers. Could this be the solution to smoking on start up off the side stand? Maybe not a half but maybe a 1/4 off would do it? Please explain your half on the site glass if you would. I KNOW how much oil is in my bike because I measured the last .7. Is there a difference in the 07's as to where it reads on the site glass.
 

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Btw

By The Way...didn't the guy who started this thread sell his bike many moons ago because he didn't like it?

I think he wanted a Honda or something..
 

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UKTzero said:

Another thing I've noticed is that there isn't any 'startup' lever like a choke or 'high-idle' lever on the K12LT – something that’s common to just about every other bike that I've owned, ridden or seen


The term "Tits on a bull" comes to mind here.

The engine is managed by the ECU. It has sensors for water / ambient temperature etc. Therefore cold starting is automatically set correctly, both for best performance and least emissions. Is is a very modern design that frankly needs none of the manual overrides fitted to older designs.

There is also as much need of a petrol tap as there is on any car, i.e. none at all.
 

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OK ... I just looked in the manual for my Hayabusa (fuel injected) and it does actually call the lever the "choke lever" and says that it's there to assist in cold weather starting, and that you can optionally use it to help warm up the bike

I've started it dead cold with and without the choke lever on and it always starts and runs perfectly just as you would expect from a fuel injected engine management system ... but with that choke lever, I can raise the idle while I'm waiting for the bike to warm up and it saves time ... if there was a lever like that on my LT, I would be using it for sure when it's cold out, just to help it warm up faster

'tits on a bull' seems like a good way to put it, but I don't think this would be a completely unused control - I bet people would use it once in a while

there are so many other 'tits on a bull' things on the LT already and I don't have a problem with any of them ... I'd much rather have them to use as an option than not have them at all

I don't think you guys are getting exactly what these do ... these aren't messing with the fuel ratio or anything like that - they are just for setting it to idle higher to help with warm up ... of course the EFI computer takes care of the cold starting fuel mixture and all that - this isn't something that you have to use every time

When I got my first Hayabusa, I was surprised to see the choke lever there too, I was expecting that it was just a 'start it and forget it' system, which as it turns out, it is - but I was happy to see that they still included the lever for the owners to use if they want to





And as far as having a fuel cutoff valve, why not have one? ... maybe we think about things like this differently, but I like to be prepared to anything, and having the ability to manually shut off the fuel supply could really come in handy, if for nothing else, safety

Having a valve is a 100% sure way to shut off the engine's ability to run, and it would help if you ever had to remove the fuel tank or do any work on the fuel injection system
 

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UKTzero said:
but with that choke lever, I can raise the idle while I'm waiting for the bike to warm up and it saves time ... if there was a lever like that on my LT, I would be using it for sure when it's cold out, just to help it warm up faster
But you start it up, get on it and ride it away. What's to warm up?
 

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because I wouldn't ever do that ... not letting a bike (or any vehicle) warm up before riding/driving it isn't good for it
 

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UKTzero said:
because I wouldn't ever do that ... not letting a bike (or any vehicle) warm up before riding/driving it isn't good for it

You need to read your BMW owner's manual. If you were driving an oilhead, you'd be dealing with melted plastic, and quick. I figger if the crazy German engineers that made the thing say start and ride away, I'm in no position to argue with them. I mount my LT/RT, don my helmet, start the bike, pull on my gloves, and ride away. Granted, I ride easier until the temp gauge comes up about halfway to the normal point, then ride in my usual manner. (Three performance awards this year. ARRRRRGGHHH!)


Addendum: Yes, Vern (OP) is selling the LT anyway because of its far too many complexities and deep anguish ownership causes.
 

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UKTzero said:
because I wouldn't ever do that ... not letting a bike (or any vehicle) warm up before riding/driving it isn't good for it
Whatever gives you that idea? Idling an engine on rich mixture is bad for it because the lubrication film can be washed away by the fuel. So stop fretting about imagined problems, get on your bike and just enjoy it.

IF you have a problem, THEN worry about it.
 

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Welcome to the world of BMW, I say this because reading some of these post's it's apparent that some y'all haven't owned a BMW before. That's allright, your life's about to get better :)

The K engine has been in production since 1985 (K75, K100, K1100 and now K12LT)
I've owned one of each and they all smoke if you leave them on the sidestand too long,
come to think of it even the old Airheads (with a few miles like over 100.000) would do this,
there's nothing wrong with the design of the bike, K motors are almost "bulletproof"
they are designed to be parked on the centerstand, why not learn to use it?

The first couple of years the K motor came with an "enrichner" or choke lever,
probably because that's what everybody was used to,
the engineers figured out the bike doesn't need it, so it was removed (makes sense to me)

Also this same motor has been working almost flawlessly for 22-23 years without a fuel shutoff valve (petcock) because...yup you guessed it, it doesn't need it.

I'm amazed at some of the concerns some of you have,
just because it's not what you're used, to doesn't make it wrong.

I'll tell y'all the same thing I tell all the HD guys I used to ride with:
wear out a tire on these bikes and you'll have a different perspective
and I'd be willing to bet you wouldn't want to ride anything else.

If you haven't worn out at least one tire, quit whining,
you don't know enough about the bike to criticize it.

Regarding the oil level, with the "cold" bike on the sidestand the oil level should be visible in the bottom of the sightglass, that will put it right about in the middle of the sightglass with the bike on the centerstand.
It doesn't matter if it's a little over.
 
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