[flienlow]

I'm not quite sure how to handle this. I buy a $21,000 motorcycle and after 11,000 miles it pisses brake fluid over the rear swing arm (and my finished garage floor.) I take my bike to a nameless BMW dealer in Seattle where they are happy to tell me that my 2010 is still under warranty until 2013 and they are going to fix the oil leak. They are wanting to up sell me on needed maintenance and I have no issue with that but respectfully decline the $300 worth of offered oil changes. After having my bike over a week & change (which is once again fine) they proceed to tell me that I owe a sum of $70.00 for removing my Wunderlich crash bars. I was not informed that the swing arm needed to be removed until a day after I dropped it off. I guess they needed to send it off for repainting.- Ok fine.
$70 is not going to make or break me, but it is enough to annoy the crap out me especially after my friends and I have paid a few wages down there.

Once again I pose the question:
Should I be pissed?

 

[05Train]

I'm not quite sure how to handle this. I buy a $21,000 motorcycle and after 11,000 miles it pisses brake fluid over the rear swing arm (and my finished garage floor.) I take my bike to a nameless BMW dealer in Seattle where they are happy to tell me that my 2010 is still under warranty until 2013 and they are going to fix the oil leak. They are wanting to up sell me on needed maintenance and I have no issue with that but respectfully decline the $300 worth of offered oil changes. After having my bike over a week & change (which is once again fine) they proceed to tell me that I owe a sum of $70.00 for removing my Wunderlich crash bars. I was not informed that the swing arm needed to be removed until a day after I dropped it off. I guess they needed to send it off for repainting.- Ok fine.
$70 is not going to make or break me, but it is enough to annoy the crap out me especially after my friends and I have paid a few wages down there.

Once again I pose the question:
Should I be pissed?

I would be. While the argument can and will be made that the crash bars are an aftermarket part, that's immaterial. The bars wouldn't have to have been removed had the bike not suffered a mechanical (and covered) failure. I'd make this point very clear to them, and if they insisted on the charge, I'd make it clear that I'd spent my last dollar in their dealership, but that I had plenty of time to tell the story on all the various BMW forums.

 

[GUNTER1100]

If the dealer wanted to do some good PR, they would have mentioned the $70 charge, & then would have told you they were going to forgive it as a good will gesture. Better to have a post about that, then the one you posted. I have had about $8K worth of parts & service there before I moved to Oregon. They always went out of their way to please both me & my wife.

 

[loboheritage]

If they had to R&R your aftermarket bars you deserve the charge....my opinion only, which has absolutely no credibility with anyone, including my wife....

 

[Trojan]

If they had to R&R your aftermarket bars you deserve the charge....my opinion only, which has absolutely no credibility with anyone, including my wife....

For my $0.02, I'm in with lobo, unless the dealer sold you the bars and put 'em on the bike - then I'd expect the dealer to take care of it all. Aftermarket buy & install, it's on you - however, they should tell you that cost up front. That it's a $21K machine doesn't make any difference - my Chevy cost a lot more than that. I expect to be treated fairly and reasonably both places. YVMV.

 

[jrhSeattle]

I would say they have a couple of problems. One, the labor was only needed because of a mechanical failure covered by the warranty and certainly not due to anything you did. I think your instinct is right. The resulting labor should be BMW's issue, whether it be the company or the dealership. Might be different if it was some unusual farkle, but I would say the majority of RT owners have something to protect the cylinder heads. And maybe you even bought the bars from them?

Second bigger problem for them is the surprise. I would just tell them flat out that the only kind of surprises you expect on service is when they tell you it didn't cost as much as they thought it would. Either someone forgot to tell you, or someone didn't know they were supposed to. Their problem in either case.

I bet they will make good on it if you are only mildly annoyed rather than foaming at the mouth when you bring it to their attention. They want more of your business. I have not experienced any game playing from them myself, so I don't think that is the issue.

 

[New2rt]

Should you be pissed, yes and no.
First off I worked flat rate for 20 years. Warranty work has a set time for repairs, time spent to remove a non factory accessory will cut into that time and will not be paid to the dealer - that's the no part.
The dealer should have let you know there would be a charge and should have given you the opportunity to remove them yourself. A good service writer could have found op codes to cover the additional time required to remove the bars - that's the yes part.

 

[Risky]

Ok, here goes...Am I missing some thing. What does your crash bars have to do with a break fluid leak at the back? and the swing arm being removed?
The extra cost of removing the crash bars should have estimated up front and you should be notified when the bike was dropped off. If the dealer wants your business, this is NOT the way to go about it. And that is my $0.02
Ps. Yeah. You should be pissed!

 

[flienlow]

"What does your crash bars have to do with a brake fluid leak at the back? and the swing arm being removed?"

They needed to remove the crash bars in order to remove the swing arm that was damaged by brake fluid.
It was my understanding that when I dropped the bike off that they would find the source of the leak, fix, & refill fluid and away I go. They told me that they needed part and then had to remove the swing arm. The never said shit about a charge for removal of the crash bars that I (for a quite handsome sum of money) am entited to have on my motorcycle.

Here are my personal expectations when I go to buy a BMW motorcycle:
1. I will be purchasing (IMHO) one of the finest motorcycles made for its class.
2. I will be paying HANDSOMELY for said Motorcycle.
3. I will be paying HANDSOMELY for any extras,gear,farkels, parts...ect.
4. I should experience exampliarly customer service.
5. If my friggin' swing arm needs to be removed, kindly take off my carsh bars and simply handle it for me!

 

[lkchris]

I would say they have a couple of problems. One, the labor was only needed because of a mechanical failure covered by the warranty ...

They?

The "they" that provides the warranty is BMW, not the dealer.

So, does BMW cover the charge for r&r (remove/replace) of aftermarket parts?

Yes, sometimes BMW creates a situation that makes you mad at the dealer, i.e. the dealer's in the middle.

And, warranties aren't much fun but the fact remains they're a contract between the purchaser and BMW and the terms should be clear and in writing. You purchased and were not given this warranty and it's, again, in writing what you've purchased. The fact you do not have an option as regards purchasing a new bike warranty does not mean you didn't pay for it.

In dealing with a dealer in most cases, I think it's "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours." If you're a DIY guy that only shows up for dealer service when you think it will be free ... well, you're not the dealer's favorite customer and are less likely to receive "favors" such as the dealer eating the cost of aftermarket parts removal when BMW doesn't reimburse for it. And, I don't think buying accessories makes up for this--that's a different "department" and the service manager mostly cares how good a service customer you are. You may get a nice discount on your next accessory purchase.

The above is meant to be generic and not personal and while I think the behaviours suggested are likely and typical, I'm only speculating on the particular procedure, i.e. covering cost of r&r of aftermarket parts ... but it's clear somewhere. And for sure "they" is BMW and not the dealer.

And, probably no question they should have informed you ahead of time. But, if you think about it this isn't always normal. Nobody reminds you ahead of time, for example, you'll be getting a "shop supplies" amount added to your bill, etc. I don't particularly like that, but it seldom surprises me. It's in the "culture" I'd say ... your learning is to advise them ahead of time next time that you want to be informed of additional charges. Of course it takes them time to do this, so you could be charged for that time. See how it works?

 

[Atomicman]

I deal with the nameless BMW dealer in Seattle all the time. And have to be honest with you, they are normally very fair, upfront and do a great job. Are personable, responsible and customer service oriented!

The dealer and manufacturer cannot and should not be responsible to R&R every conceivable farkle someone has installed on their bike to get to a repair.

Now if the malfunction somehow ruined your crash bars that's one thing, but to access the problem over and above OEM specs is your responsibiity.

Should they have informed you at the time they were going to R& R the bars that it was going to cost $70.00, Yep!!!! And I surprised they didn't, since normally they are very upfront. But in the overall realm of repairs the $70.00 is a pitance and not worth ruining your relationship with the dealer over.

Chill, $70 seems totally fair!

 

[steveaikens]

Hmm. Interesting reading your posts. If your choice of language here, where you're simply asking for opinions of whether your complaint is valid or not, is any indication of the attitude and language you used when communicating with the dealership, I'd suggest you're not exactly a candidate for "favored customer status" with them.

First, you should understand that farkles added to the motorcycle by the owner can consume a good deal of unexpected time to R&R for the service tech. That time isn't covered by the warranty. Frankly, it should be common sense to expect to pay for that time.

The next thing you have to think about is just how long is it going to take to R&R that farkle? In this case, it looks to me like that dealer is charging you a fair charge. My guess is he charged you for half an hour. That's actually fair for the Wunderlich bars. Remember, it's not just 'take the bars off'. They have to be re-fitted each time they're are replaced and that does add a bit of time. Granted, it isn't much time but the charge appears reasonable to me.

Lastly, should the dealer have mentioned the added charge? Absolutely. However, the problem here comes that we don't know the circumstances at the time you were dropping the bike off. If it was a hectic day and the service writer was pressed, he may have forgotten to mention it, he may have just presumed your realized "work" on your non-BMW part wasn't covered by BMW - any number of factors are involved each time you visit your service center.

Should you be upset at the added charge. No, I don't think in a case like this you should. What you should do though is, next time you take your bike in for service, tell them that you would like to be informed of any out of pocket expenses before they are charged.

Lastly, be less aggressive in your choice of language when you post here and certainly when you talk to your dealer. You can vent here pretty well passively and folks will be more willing to respond to a well composed post than one that is aggressive.

 

[Knife]

Just my opinion, but I don't work for free and I don't expect others to either.

 

[Plasterman]

It would have been nice of them to tell you up front that there would be an extra charge to remove the bars and give you the option of removing them yourself.

$70 to remove and put back on..... sounds like an hourly rate and I'm sure it didnt take a hour.

I too have had a bad warranty experince with a dealer. Took my bike in telling them it was starting hard when hot. They checked the battery, couldn't find anything wrong, then charged me $54 dollars for checking the battery. They told me since they didn't find anything wrong, they had to charge me. I have heard that " We can't work for free" crap before. I have never had this problem with any of my BMW cars or other vehicles. I guess they would rather have you stranded on the side road so the can confirm there really is a problem,

BMW NA states dealers are independant agents and basically do anything they want.

 

[05Train]

Just my opinion, but I don't work for free and I don't expect others to either.

No one's asking anyone to work for free, the mechanic is still getting paid. The guy bought a bike with a warranty. There was a warrantable defect on the bike. That's not the purchaser's problem. What is a problem for him is that he's now got to take time out of his schedule to take his defective bike to a dealer and have it fixed. So basically the purchaser of the bike is working for free to get his defective bike fixed.

The dealer, as a purveyor of a premium brand motorcycle, should have bent over backwards to fix the thing. Hitting the owner with a $70 charge to remove his crash bars is flat-out stupid, and could easily be the most expensive $70 they'll ever bill. If the dealer can't bill that 30 minutes to BMW, they damn well ought to eat it in the name of customer service.

The owner of the bike did nothing wrong, his bike had a mechanical failure which was covered under warranty. In exchange for his inconvenience, either the dealer or BMW ought to happily cover the additional few minutes involved in R&Ring the crash bars.

 

[SPXDR]

To defend the dealership a little bit, I don't think that they're in the wrong for charging you to remove the crash bars. Dealers (or any professional, in any field) should be compensated for their time. If a warranty repair requires removing aftermarket parts, then I believe that the owner should have the responsibility of either removing the parts themselves, or paying for the parts to be removed. With that being said, the dealership does have the responsibility of notifying the owner before the work begins that there will be a charge to remove the aftermarket parts.

The reality is, dealers aren't making as much money as people may think. The profits are still pretty thin, and to give away 30 minutes of labor does hit the bottom line. As a matter of fact, giving away that 30 minutes of labor possibly would have turned this warranty repair from profitable to unprofitable. I don't think that any dealer should lose money doing warranty repairs... else one day, they won't be there when we need them the most!

 

[05Train]

To defend the dealership a little bit, I don't think that they're in the wrong for charging you to remove the crash bars. Dealers (or any professional, in any field) should be compensated for their time. If a warranty repair requires removing aftermarket parts, then I believe that the owner should have the responsibility of either removing the parts themselves, or paying for the parts to be removed. With that being said, the dealership does have the responsibility of notifying the owner before the work begins that there will be a charge to remove the aftermarket parts.

The reality is, dealers aren't making as much money as people may think. The profits are still pretty thin, and to give away 30 minutes of labor does hit the bottom line. As a matter of fact, giving away that 30 minutes of labor possibly would have turned this warranty repair from profitable to unprofitable. I don't think that any dealer should lose money doing warranty repairs... else one day, they won't be there when we need them the most!

If "giving away" 30 minutes of labor is going to break the dealership, they've got piss-poor management and deserve to go out of business.

I work in sales, and I give away an astounding amount of stuff. I do it when the customer's wrong, and I do it when the customer's right. My boss whines about it, but the fact of the matter is that's how you build a loyal customer base.

All that needed to be said by this dealer was, "hey man, we didn't charge you for R&Ring the crash bars, sorry about the inconvenience." The customer would have been happy, and would have had a positive experience with the dealer.

 

[beech]

That dealer's rate is about $100 per hour. so you got hit for 3/4 of an hour. Yes, the service writer let you down by not telling you about the removal work. Probably discovered by the tech the next day. They should have called you. Your equipment in the way of their work. You remove it, or pay. I too use that dealer. In general they do good work. Of course sometimes I hear otherwise. Same most any shop. I like the part about getting paint work. That could have easily been passed on. Spring is coming .......

 

[Moot]

An advance warning from the dealer would have been ideal---however, I think it is pretty common knowledge that if one takes a bike in for any service that requires them to remove owner installed after market parts, he should expect to pay the cost of that removal and replacement. Owners who do not wish to do so have the option to remove the parts themselves prior to service.

 

[SPXDR]

If "giving away" 30 minutes of labor is going to break the dealership, they've got piss-poor management and deserve to go out of business.

I never said that giving away 30 minutes of labor would "break" the dealership. I said that giving away that 30 minutes may move that job from profitable to unprofitable.