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Discussion Starter #1
I didn't see any threads trying to discredit the belief in Santa Claus. :confused: Why is that?!?! And I'm guessing that there will be the same lack during Easter. Not one, single thread slamming the Easter Bunny. :confused: What gives???

But EVERY year you can't bet your bottom dollar that the "atheists" will be trying to wave their colors ... shouting from the rooftops of how there's no God and their right to believe that way. FWIW, I do believe that they have that right. Whole-heartedly.

What confounds me is the "atheists" that feel the need to bash on my beliefs. I believe in Jesus. Period. And I have that right ... last time I checked. The confounding part is, if atheists truly believe that there is no God, than why does Jesus seem to concern them so much? :confused: One would think they'd dismiss the whole notion the way I dismiss the whole Santa thing. Heck! I didn't even tell my deceived little girl there was NO Santa. :eek: I let her live out her beliefs until she decided for herself what was "true", and what was not.

The only thing I can figure is that these "atheists" really do believe in God, they just refuse to submit to Him. And, they're trying to drag us along for their ride as well. Well...I don't think so! BTDT. Wasn't too impressed.

O come! All ye faithful! :)
 

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. . . because nobody's taking Miracle on 34th Street as the one true gospel that should be defended regardless of logic or reason. They realize it's just a story, meant to entertain and maybe teach us to be kind to others, nothing more.

Santa doesn't come knocking on my door telling me I'm damned if I don't believe in him, or that I should kill those who don't submit to him. :)

The biggest problem with religion is the absolute condescension of the true believers and the need to force it down everyone else's throat at all costs.

But if you need to believe in some made-up idol the way children do, then you go right ahead. Please just leave me out of it.

And my apologies to the rest of the crowd. We actually had a reasonable discussion going in the other thread, with most folks remaining impassioned but respectful even while disagreeing.

Maybe it's just PMS (Parked Motorcycle Syndrome) kicking in, in which case I'm going for a nice, long ride rather than continue this useless diatribe.

Enjoy your holidays, everyone. :)
 

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meese said:
Santa doesn't come knocking on my door telling me I'm damned if I don't believe in him, or that I should kill those who don't submit to him. :)
And again...this statement just puts an exclamation point on my point. Why does it matter to you if you don't believe in Jesus? I don't get it. Why not just simply shrug your shoulders, grin, and be about your business?

Seems to me y'all feel the need to preach your beliefs (or lack thereof) almost more than us Christians do. Odd.
 

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messenger13 said:
And again...this statement just puts an exclamation point on my point. Why does it matter to you if you don't believe in Jesus? I don't get it. Why not just simply shrug your shoulders, grin, and be about your business?

Seems to me y'all feel the need to preach your beliefs (or lack thereof) almost more than us Christians do. Odd.

That will get the pagans going...
 

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messenger13 said:
Seems to me y'all feel the need to preach your beliefs (or lack thereof) almost more than us Christians do. Odd.
Yeah, like it was an athiest who started his own thread to profess his beliefs. I was just wondering what took you so long...
 

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messenger13 said:
Seems to me y'all feel the need to preach your beliefs (or lack thereof) almost more than us Christians do. Odd.
Hmmmmmm, who is it that goes door to door trying to get people to come to their church? Who keeps coming around at any and all "religious" holidays asking for money or other such donations? Is it the atheists???? Don't think so. Get down off your pulpet, put your bible back under your pillow and let the rest of us believe or not what we want without browbeaing us with your beliefs.
 

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Morley said:
Hmmmmmm, who is it that goes door to door trying to get people to come to their church? Who keeps coming around at any and all "religious" holidays asking for money or other such donations? Is it the atheists???? Don't think so. Get down off your pulpet, put your bible back under your pillow and let the rest of us believe or not what we want without browbeaing us with your beliefs.
Just what is a "pulpet" is it the Altar where goats and such are sacrificed???
wait that would be pagan.
Mike
 

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meese said:
.The biggest problem with religion is the absolute condescension of the true believers and the need to force it down everyone else's throat at all costs.
I can't believe I'm getting sucked into another religious debate

but I feel obligated to point out that in the other thread
an unprovoked attack was launched from the atheist's "corner"
and with "absolute condescension" they forced their beliefs down our throats"

or was that just Bullshit?
 

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messenger13 said:
And again...this statement just puts an exclamation point on my point.
No, actually, it doesn't. Atheists/Agnostics don't go door to door telling people they're wrong. They don't go into our schools trying to force a silly bedtime story about how the world was created into the curriculum. They don't build huge shrines and put on hocus-pocus shows designed solely to suck all the money out of poor, misguided souls. They don't start illegal and unjustifiable wars that kill thousands of trusting young soldiers merely to promote their own interests. Then they don't go to those soldier's funerals claiming that god has abandoned America and that all will perish.

I don't really care what you believe or not, until you start forcing it on me in a million different ways. Then I will stand up and refute all the nonsense thrown at me "for my own good."

And you're the one who compared Jesus with Santa and the Easter Bunny. Just another fictional character with a cute story to calm and control the children of the world. On second thought, maybe you know more than you realize. :)
 

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meese said:
... Atheists/Agnostics don't go door to door telling people they're wrong. They don't go into our schools trying to force a silly bedtime story about how the world was created into the curriculum...
Ken, responding to just the above portion of your post:

It's called the Great Commission. Christians were commanded to spread the gospel to the whole world. Other ways of spreading the gospel could include radio, TV, inviting you to church, etc.; you get the idea.

At the very least, you have to give them credit: those who come to your door are doing what all Christians are supposed to do. If you politely say "no, thanks" and close the door that should be the end of it, and that doesn't qualify as cramming it down your throat. Now, if they persist, are rude, etc. -- shame on them.

The rest of your post... I can't argue with. Wars, etc...

Like Hans, I can't believe I'm getting involved in this again. But also like Hans, I have an obligation.
 

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meese said:
Atheists/Agnostics don't go door to door telling people they're wrong. They don't go into our schools trying to force a silly bedtime story about how the world was created into the curriculum.

No...they just go to the SUPREME COURT to tell others they are wrong when we had been praying in schools and teaching creation since before the founding of this nation. For you to say, "..they don't go into schools trying to force" their ideas is very ludicrous and indefensible as an argument when that is EXACTLY what they did.

They don't build huge shrines and put on hocus-pocus shows designed solely to suck all the money out of poor, misguided souls.

Uh...you need to check the out the "financial integrity" of America's most famous Atheist Madeline Murray O'hare, her organization "American Athiests" and how her own son killed her for $$$$ :eek:
And of course Mao never did this... :histerica Certainly, neither did Lenin or Stalin :rotf: You couldn't find a picture or image of them ANYWHERE in their respective nations....no huge shrines to their own names or anything like that....no, no no a thousand times no! Oh, wait a minute, actually they did all of that and more...they expected the people to serve and worship THEM or die by the untold millions :(


They don't start illegal and unjustifiable wars that kill thousands of trusting young soldiers merely to promote their own interests.

Doh...I forgot about Stalin, Mao, Kim Jong II, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. (i.e. - see above :p

Most of you are making WAY too many GENERAL comments. Just thought I'd correct a few of your WRONG apriority assumptions :D
 

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hschisler said:
It's called the Great Commission. Christians were commanded to spread the gospel to the whole world.
I know, it's an integral part of most religious doctrines. But some folks take it way too far. And if you don't buy into whatever dogma they're preaching, then it quickly gets tiresome.

hschisler said:
Like Hans, I can't believe I'm getting involved in this again. But also like Hans, I have an obligation.
And that's fine, for you and yours. But please leave me out of it. :)
 

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Actually Pastor, the country was founded on freedom of religion, and separation of church and state. And I believe the reason that the Pilgrims left their homeland was to avoid persecution by a state-run religion.

Seems to me like that's what was being upheld by the Supreme Court. No one said that you can't pray, just that you can't institutionalize it in a secular setting. I don't go into church or Sunday School and tell you you're doing it wrong, so I'd simply appreciate the same consideration in the outside world.

And religion surely isn't the only source of corruption and killing; they've just had the most practice. :)

cccpastorjack said:
Most of you are making WAY too many GENERAL comments.
Agreed, on both sides. But then again, I didn't start this thread either. :)
 

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I'm not to sure about schools and religion. There's an Elementary school, Hoffman Elementary, right down FM306 that a church meets in on Sunday.

Out of curiosity, I called the school district headquarters, asked how much rent the church was paying (hey, I pay for that school, too), did they pay for utilities, could any church rent it, or for that matter, any religion (Wiccan?). I have, to this day, never gotten an answer.



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Hey Grif,

As per North Carolina (and I'm sure it's probably the same there) any civic group can rent the buildings when not in use by the school. You are correct, they are owned by the public and that is exactly why the public can rent them for gatherings. Not sure what the limitations are.
 

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meese said:
Actually Pastor, the country was founded on freedom of religion, and separation of church and state. And I believe the reason that the Pilgrims left their homeland was to avoid persecution by a state-run religion.

Actually, you are incorrect again. The framers of the constituion never used the phrase "separation of Church and State" and knew nothing of it.

They said, and I qoute -- "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." The restrictions of the First Amendment were placed squarely on the Government, not the church. I challenge you or anyone else to produce the phrase "separation of Church and State" from any framer of the constitution. It was developed eroneously by later persons.

The pilgrims definately were Christians (not athiests) who were denied the right to worship as they pleased in Europe, so they sailed here and developed a constitution that would prevent the government from infringing upon the church or "establishing" one church as a "state church" (which is exactly what had happened in Europe).

The First Ammendment said nothing about keeping God out of government...just keeping the Congress of the United States from "making any law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free excercise thereof..." The First Amendment basically says, (paraphrased) "The Government shall not establish any one church as a state church and shall not tell the church what to do or not do."

There is NOTHING in that ammendment that places any burden on the church to stay out of government...period. Read it thoroughly...
 

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The phrase "separation of church and state" is derived from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson in 1802 to a group identifying themselves as the Danbury Baptists. In that letter, referencing the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, Jefferson writes:

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State." [8]







 

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Again...I submit that this wall of separation was to protect the church from the state, not visa-versa. I do stand corrected that Jefferson did make the statement (as per wikipedia). Good research!
 

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cccpastorjack said:
Again...I submit that this wall of separation was to protect the church from the state, not visa-versa. I do stand corrected that Jefferson did make the statement (as per wikipedia). Good research!
I would say it was to protect the people from the church. Look at Europe and other places where the church runs/ran the govt., the people were told whatto believe on pain of death. Since the church was the govt. they had the power to enforce it.
 
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