BMW Luxury Touring Community banner

41 - 52 of 52 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
BMW put it on there for a reason. I would NOT take it off. I think they know better then us
I second that.

It's interesting to hear largely US comments on this, I think. It doesn't seem to be an issue in the UK from what I can make out.

Another aspect that would seriously weigh on my mind is insurance implications. Our insurance industry are as hot as nails for finding ways not to pay out on a claim.

Most insurers will have asked you to state that the bike is in standard condition and not modified. If you tell them what you've done you'd be fine, although they may hike the premium or even decline to quote. On the other hand if you haven't owned up and you are involved in a serious moving vehicle incident, whether your fault or not, the assessors would be over the bike with a fine tooth comb and you could find yourself up sh#t creak without a paddle!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Discussion Starter #43 (Edited)
Well I paid a bit more then 300 bucks for the Hyper Pro damper on my 07 LT. The other 1900 went to the shocks. To be honest I have no clue if it really was better or not. The shocks so far overshadowed everything that I would and did not notice the Damper.

I set sag, and after that the shocks and the damper were pre set for me from EPM. It was a group buy from here I believe for the LT right when EPM came onto the scene.

Roger with your methodology I am surprised EPM did not offer you one to play with. Since the have such a large rang of adjustment I would think in 20 clicks you could find the magic one.

My understanding is at slow speed these are supposed to be all but inert, then as oscillation, or, in and out movement of the damper rod, increases the resistance applied, stabilizing the lower bridge and forks, and bars.

I have never been there but just thinking about the steering head nut/bearing and any role it may play in this.

Again this is one of those back in the day it was a simple process of checking fall away. Also it was a torque value and then a set amount of flat or degree to torque to correct specs.

I keep watching this as I find it interesting.

Since I ride a GS I am never taking my damper off, however if I could gain a bit better handling by just making a few clicks that would be worth the cost.

Can you say Group Buy?

Oh and I am wondering if this is a contributing factor to front tire wear? I have never seen tires wear to a trapezoid on any other motorcycle I have owned over my 50 years of driving them.

Keep at it Roger I hope your persistence helps us understand some stuff here.
The dealer has said this is too subtle for him, that I should learn to ride as is and that I should call BMW technical service. BMW Customer service says I have to go through the dealer. The dealer is 2.5 hours away. Does anyone know how to reach a BMW Tech Support rep directly?

I may try a closer dealer (whom I’m wishing I’d bought from rather than saving a couple thou).

I’m thinking now that damperless steering stiction is at the root cause of my observations. The dealer did mentioned a front bearing torque spec. Does anyone know if there’s a way to reduce the torque on either of the steering bearings, possibly reducing their stiction?

Once I have a point of view on how to proceed with the stiction issue, I will likely try the HyperPro reactive damper.

Also, I did get some tech back channel info suggesting that the damper is there for “liability” issues ...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,226 Posts
. It doesn't seem to be an issue in the UK from what I can make out.
It's on both sides of the pond. I am one of those that believes the low speed rideability could be much better. Also the tyre wear, also the bikes' reaction to road irregularities with partially worn tyres.


The low speed stuff I talk about is the very low speed (walking speed) where you are using balance and body english to keep the bike tracking perfectly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Discussion Starter #45
I’m making some progress on this. Without the damper installed for a few hundred miles, I can definitely feel the stiction (breakaway moment) affecting low speed handling. I’ve also been doing some research.

I couldn’t get my service DVD for the RTW to work for a while (Norton claimed that it was a virus) so started searching my old R1150RT manual for tightening torque and then skipped past the virus check on the service DVD AND found a couple interesting things:

—lower ball joint torque is 230 NM on the ‘04 (not sure how I’d get it that tight)
—lower and upper torque on the RTW IS 130 NM
—there is a spec for Breakaway Moment on the ‘04 RT! It is 1-2 NM, which is 9-18 in-lbs.
—I haven’t been able to find the spec for the RTW yet.

The measured Breakaway Moment on my ‘17 RTW, with the damper installed is 52.5 in-lbs. That is 2 - 4 times the spec range for the ‘04 RT. No wonder I can feel the difference.

If anyone or their dealer or the factory can dig out a spec for breakaway moment on the RTW I’d be grateful.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Hello all, I'm just new here but I want to join this discussion. Currently I own a 2010 R1200RT. Yesterday I made a test ride with a 2017 R1200RT and decided NOT to buy the bike because of this issue. It was almost impossible to handle the bike at low speed: it seems to "fall" into a turn by itself and I needed to counter steer. @ higher speed I had to force the bike into a turn, it would not do it easily as with my 2010. Very unpleasant behaviour. Now I'm wondering if all 2017 RT's have this problem, or could it be a combination of tyres, damper, rider weight (just 65kg), etc.
Question is, should I try just another bike for a testride or is this useless (if all 2017 RT's have the same problem)?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,958 Posts
Hello all, I'm just new here but I want to join this discussion. Currently I own a 2010 R1200RT. Yesterday I made a test ride with a 2017 R1200RT and decided NOT to buy the bike because of this issue. It was almost impossible to handle the bike at low speed: it seems to "fall" into a turn by itself and I needed to counter steer. @ higher speed I had to force the bike into a turn, it would not do it easily as with my 2010. Very unpleasant behaviour. Now I'm wondering if all 2017 RT's have this problem, or could it be a combination of tyres, damper, rider weight (just 65kg), etc.
Question is, should I try just another bike for a testride or is this useless (if all 2017 RT's have the same problem)?
I have owned an '75 RT, a 2000 LT (65K miles) and now a '19 RT. I have ridden current year RT's on international tours except for a GS in South Africa for the past 12 years. I find NO low speed handling issues especially with respect to the LT which I lost count of the number of drops. I remember years ago in Tuscany while waiting for the 5 bikes in the group to re-fuel I was doing figure eights in the small parking lot with my wife as pillion. To each his own . . . but I would never remove the steering damper discussed in this thread. An early "lesson learned" when I re-started my love of motos over 15 years ago, the bike will go where you are looking. Endless twisties in most of the trips . . . Pyrenees, Alps, Morocco, Greece, Italy, Switzerland, Slovenia, Austria, Poland, Czech Republic, Portugal, and numerous adventures in various regions of Spain.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
450 Posts
I would suspect that the tires on that bike are worn. IMO it's worst with dual compound tires. I have felt that with my previous bikes, which did not have steering dampers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Thanks for the replies. I will definitely try other 2017 bikes as you say that it is not an issue with this model, but maybe with this particular bike I tried.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Thanks for the replies. I will definitely try other 2017 bikes as you say that it is not an issue with this model, but maybe with this particular bike I tried.
Thanks all: I just bought a 2017 R1200RT. The test ride was a totally different experience than the first time! This bike is absolutely top class (premium selection, so 24 month warranty). Will be delivered next week!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Interesting--I find my '16 RT is so well balanced I typically time my stops in stop n go conditions to where I'm barely moving and still don't need to put a foot down. How the heck can you do better than that? Using the clutch and throttle are always required unless you have a sidecar or a 3rd wheel, no? Perhaps you're losing some balance awareness? This happens as we age as a function of how well our vestibular system functions and as we age the 'endolymph' in our semicircular canals becomes less fluid and so balance suffers--it's often why people are at higher risk for falls. I've always thought the time to give up the moto is when I start losing balance and other awareness since fortunately riding does not require strength per se, just balance and awareness.
Hmmm ..... a bold statement to make me thinks. I have a full on road/race bicycle with cleats, I can come to a complete stop, feet not touching the ground, but on the pedals, and wait until I am ready to move off. Perfectly balanced no problems. Now my 19 RT in slow traffic has me sweating , as for the weaving OMG! I think for me, it is down to experience and confidence. Oh I am 51 good athletic build at 5’11 200 lb.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,409 Posts
Hmmm ..... a bold statement to make me thinks. I have a full on road/race bicycle with cleats, I can come to a complete stop, feet not touching the ground, but on the pedals, and wait until I am ready to move off. Perfectly balanced no problems. Now my 19 RT in slow traffic has me sweating , as for the weaving OMG! I think for me, it is down to experience and confidence. Oh I am 51 good athletic build at 5’11 200 lb.
It's all in your mind! At 74, I can bring my RT to a dead stop without having my foot on the ground and take off again! Then, again, I have been riding for a while, and in the "old days" this is something that I used to do very often. Weight has nothing to do with it. It's all in really knowing your bike and balance!
 
41 - 52 of 52 Posts
Top