BMW Luxury Touring Community banner
1 - 20 of 37 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi, everyone

After selling my 2003, had the time to work on my 2000 that i bought NOT Ruining from a motorcycle shop with electrical problems , i replaced the fuel pump and filter , installed a new battery , bypassed the alarm system , and the LT will not crank , of course the tech who worked on it before had a lot things apart trying to find the problem , will i tested the start switch because it was a part anyway and it was not giving out voltage so i was able to start the motorcycle by giving power to wire coming out from the start switch ,

Q1 is it repairable if i take apart , anyone knows , or better replace the whole right hand switch assembly
Q2 while surfing eBay looking for a switch assembly , i saw one with a optional 3 position dimmer switch (seller from Germany) is that only for the EU market or some USA LT's came with that because both my 2003 and 2000 and most switches i saw on eBay just have a small plastic cover to hide the switch slot.
if i buy that one will it work as plug and play , because its actually the cleanest one on eBay.

anyone has the schematics for starting system please share
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
234 Posts
The way I look at it is this,
Currently the switch does not work so it is no good to you as it is. If you take it off the bike and explore the mechanisms involved with he switch you may find out it is just dirty and some contact cleaner will solve your problem. If you take it apart and the switch is ruined, you are still at the same place you are right now, with a switch that doesn't work. This might save you a buck or two as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
@ [B]Uneasy_Ryder[/B] you absolutely right . thanks

I remembered that i have the CLYMER repair manual , ACCORDING TO WIRING DIAGRAM , some LT's have a Starter relay some have starter Module , how to tell , is there a production date or VIN start point for this variation ? , the problem with the LT's any little thing you want to do half the bike has to come apart !!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,392 Posts
@ [B]Uneasy_Ryder[/B] you absolutely right . thanks

I remembered that i have the CLYMER repair manual , ACCORDING TO WIRING DIAGRAM , some LT's have a Starter relay some have starter Module , how to tell , is there a production date or VIN start point for this variation ? , the problem with the LT's any little thing you want to do half the bike has to come apart !!!
All early models (1999-2000) until somewhere in 2001, had the original simple BLACK starter relay - this one is simple without any electronics - just a common coil and contacts inside. Since yours is a 2000, it MUST have come from factory with a BLACK one.

Later on, starting early 2001, BMW installed a smarter (more complex) BLUE starter Relay at factory on all K1200LT, BUT they also created a kit to retrofit all older models (1999 to early 2001). This retrofit kit also included a large connector to sit the new Blue Relay. It is possible the Blue relay retrofit kit was not installed properly and is causing some of your issues.

SO, basically the only way to know is to look into the electrical junction box under fuel tank to see what you have - yours might have been modified with the retrofit kit. See photos below for both types.

P.S.: to help solve your right handlebar switch testing , just below the upper electrical box, there is another section where all connectors from various source will join the main harness. In this lower section , among many other colored connectors, there is a 10 pins black connector from the right handlebar switch. Using small needle size pins and a multimeter you can test each button of this right handlebar switch. Can post instructions about this...


Electrical wiring Computer hardware Electrical supply Cable Technology



Electrical wiring Computer hardware Electrical supply Electronic engineering Cable
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
All early models (1999-2000) until somewhere in 2001, had the original simple BLACK starter relay - this one is simple without any electronics - just a common coil and contacts inside. Since yours is a 2000, it MUST have come from factory with a BLACK one.

Later on, starting early 2001, BMW installed a smarter (more complex) BLUE starter Relay at factory on all K1200LT, BUT they also created a kit to retrofit all older models (1999 to early 2001). This retrofit kit also included a large connector to sit the new Blue Relay. It is possible the Blue relay retrofit kit was not installed properly and is causing some of your issues.

SO, basically the only way to know is to look into the electrical junction box under fuel tank to see what you have - yours might have been modified with the retrofit kit. See photos below for both types.

P.S.: to help solve your right handlebar switch testing , just below the upper electrical box, there is another section where all connectors from various source will join the main harness. In this lower section , among many other colored connectors, there is a 10 pins black connector from the right handlebar switch. Using small needle size pins and a multimeter you can test each button of this right handlebar switch. Can post instructions about this...


View attachment 180346


View attachment 180347
Thanks , i will take more parts of the LT , to expose the electrical junction box , anyway i have to do that to replace the switch if i have to ,and many wire harness's lost the looms from the bike setting in a work shop for some time , i like to re insulate them to protect exposed wires .
 

·
Wrencher Extraordinaire
2005 K1200LT
Joined
·
15,592 Posts
First off the voltage from the starter switch goes to the reverser controller then the reverser controller send out a signal through the FR switch to the starter relay. So are you sure it is the starter switch? It could be the switch on the FR shaft, it could also be a loose barrel connector under the pillion seat. Has the top case been off recently? There are two barrel connectors for it and some time a third one that is very visible gets undone as well and that contains the starter switch signal to the reverser controller. It is not a simple path and requires a lot of knowledge to track it down. Be happy to help you with it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
First off the voltage from the starter switch goes to the reverser controller then the reverser controller send out a signal through the FR switch to the starter relay. So are you sure it is the starter switch? It could be the switch on the FR shaft, it could also be a loose barrel connector under the pillion seat. Has the top case been off recently? There are two barrel connectors for it and some time a third one that is very visible gets undone as well and that contains the starter switch signal to the reverser controller. It is not a simple path and requires a lot of knowledge to track it down. Be happy to help you with it.
Thanks for your help , i bought the bike and it was apart , the rear seat ,upper luggage compartment and the Left side fairing cover all off , they had some wiring exposed which is the alarm plug , they were trying to bypass , i did remove the alarm and jump the 4 wires , that's how far i got with the testing , everything else on that right handle bar switch work except for the start button , i didn't check for the feed signal for the start button , i thought it will get negative or positive from the main feed wire for the switch , all i did is give positive to the wire coming out of the start button and she fired up ,
il have to follow the feed signal to the start switch if you can just point me to the locations that can interrupt the start signal , i have no problem with electrical or electronics , 40 years Automotive and Electronics bench tech .
much appreciated
 

·
Wrencher Extraordinaire
2005 K1200LT
Joined
·
15,592 Posts
Just where did you tap into the starter button signal? Was it on a Black/Yellow wire? The button should pass 12 volts to the reverser controller (pin 9 of the 10 wire barrel) as well as the starter relay. The reverser then provides a ground out through the FR switch to either enable the starter relay or inhibit it during reverse. So I would check for the switched power on the input side of the starter switch. Look on the right side multifunction switch connector for pin 5 it should have a Green/Violet wire with 12 volts when the key is on. The connector is down in the front part of the electronics box. #3 If you don't want to go all the way down to the connector you can split open the covering on the harness and stick a needle into the Green/Violet wire to check for 12 volts with the key on.

White Black Motor vehicle Black-and-white Style
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Just where did you tap into the starter button signal? Was it on a Black/Yellow wire? The button should pass 12 volts to the reverser controller (pin 9 of the 10 wire barrel) as well as the starter relay. The reverser then provides a ground out through the FR switch to either enable the starter relay or inhibit it during reverse. So I would check for the switched power on the input side of the starter switch. Look on the right side multifunction switch connector for pin 5 it should have a Green/Violet wire with 12 volts when the key is on. The connector is down in the front part of the electronics box. #3 If you don't want to go all the way down to the connector you can split open the covering on the harness and stick a needle into the Green/Violet wire to check for 12 volts with the key on.

View attachment 180368
Thanks , i did pull out the switch and it is defective , no continuity when pressed Black/ yellow and green/ Yellow
, to confirm if i touch both wires it cranks .
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Thanks , Much appreciated all the Help from everyone .

Question : who is the most reasonable price wise BMW Part Supplier in the USA if i decide to buy a new Switch ,my search lead me to part # 61 31 7 708 368 and a newer number is 61 31 7 708 370 , both says Heated handle's and OBC .
 

·
Wrencher Extraordinaire
2005 K1200LT
Joined
·
15,592 Posts
You can just replace the switch itself since you are in that far. I had a guy in Brazil that did the research and found the switches but the source would not ship to Brazil so I bought a bunch and shipped some to him. If you are interested I can send you one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I found the switch at Digi-Key and ordered 2 of them , original made by ITT which was a German company , i don't think they still in business but CK has same model K12 Series part # 401-1159-ND if anyone needs it . i'm still missing that small slot plastic cover for the Dimmer option switch was apart when i bought the bike ., there is a complete switch assembly on eBay for like $75 i'm thinking about buying it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,392 Posts
I found the switch at Digi-Key and ordered 2 of them , original made by ITT which was a German company , i don't think they still in business but CK has same model K12 Series part # 401-1159-ND if anyone needs it . i'm still missing that small slot plastic cover for the Dimmer option switch was apart when i bought the bike ., there is a complete switch assembly on eBay for like $75 i'm thinking about buying it.
My understanding is that you have a 1999-2004 model with USA specs (headlight always ON) and also Heated-grips. If so, then make sure the EBAY seller shows the inside silver sticker to identify proper switch.

Check center line data on label / sticker - inside plastic of switch as shown below. - it should end with EITHER: "7 650 732" or "7 708 370"
The 1st number (650 732) has been superseded in parts fiche with this full number "61 31 7 708 370 " hence it is possible someone is selling this switch with the new sticker ending with "708 370".

The BMW parts-fiche is pretty confusing as there has been some variation / option. In addition to what you see on MAX-BMW web site for USA market, there are a few more part numbers for the Euro specs models having the headlight switch embedded into it.



Motor vehicle Automotive tire Gas Bumper Machine
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
My understanding is that you have a 1999-2004 model with USA specs (headlight always ON) and also Heated-grips. If so, then make sure the EBAY seller shows the inside silver sticker to identify proper switch.

Check center line data on label / sticker - inside plastic of switch as shown below. - it should end with EITHER: "7 650 732" or "7 708 370"
The 1st number (650 732) has been superseded in parts fiche with this full number "61 31 7 708 370 " hence it is possible someone is selling this switch with the new sticker ending with "708 370".

The BMW parts-fiche is pretty confusing as there has been some variation / option. In addition to what you see on MAX-BMW web site for USA market, there are a few more part numbers for the Euro specs models having the headlight switch embedded into it.



View attachment 180388
Is that what it is , a head light switch , i thought its some kind of a dimmer for the instruments , that makes sense , i guess European regulation wants the headlight switch on the right hand !!, by the way the silver sticker you posted identical to mine
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,392 Posts
Is that what it is , a head light switch , i thought its some kind of a dimmer for the instruments , that makes sense , i guess European regulation wants the headlight switch on the right hand !!, by the way the silver sticker you posted identical to mine
Nowadays the regulations in most European countries are not the same as they were when the K1200LT came out in 1999. Many years ago it was allowed to have a headlamp ON-OFF switch including a "parking" light. Hence, as you can see in photo below, the switch has 3 positions OFF , Parking , headlamp ON.

On countries that forces Headlamp to be always ON like USA, CANADA... this part of the switch is covered AND the 2 Pins blue connector in electrical box has a jumper wire. Yours should not be like photo since you have the jumper wire and only 1 wire going into switch assy from the small blue connector.

The example below if from a K1200RS that does not have the heated-grips option, but this is irrelevant for purpose of discussion about headlamp switch. The design is more-or-less the same from the supplier that made these for BMW between 1997 and about 2009 (depending on model). These are the reasons for so many part numbers. BMW had the same basic right hand switch with various optional buttons, various wire length , various end connector at main harness depending on model / year / options.

P.S.: Below, I have also added a page from the K1200LT Owners manual (1999-2000) for these countries having the headlight switch

Bag Strap Luggage and bags Personal protective equipment Electric blue



Motor vehicle Font Aircraft Poster Illustration
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Nowadays the regulations in most European countries are not the same as they were when the K1200LT came out in 1999. Many years ago it was allowed to have a headlamp ON-OFF switch including a "parking" light. Hence, as you can see in photo below, the switch has 3 positions OFF , Parking , headlamp ON.

On countries that forces Headlamp to be always ON like USA, CANADA... this part of the switch is covered AND the 2 Pins blue connector in electrical box has a jumper wire. Yours should not be like photo since you have the jumper wire and only 1 wire going into switch assy from the small blue connector.

The example below if from a K1200RS that does not have the heated-grips option, but this is irrelevant for purpose of discussion about headlamp switch. The design is more-or-less the same from the supplier that made these for BMW between 1997 and about 2009 (depending on model). These are the reasons for so many part numbers. BMW had the same basic right hand switch with various optional buttons, various wire length , various end connector at main harness depending on model / year / options.

P.S.: Below, I have also added a page from the K1200LT Owners manual (1999-2000) for these countries having the headlight switch

View attachment 180390


View attachment 180394
Thank you for the clear explanation, Regardless of the regulation in USA, CA etc. personally i do prefer an OFF position for the head light, its always been the main reason for draining the battery while i work on bikes specially when you have a starting issue and need the juice to crank the engine . not even my (1980,81,82 CB900 , 1982 650SC Nighthawk ,1983 650SC nighthawk, 1984 Kawazaki GPZ750 , 1985 Sabre 1100 ) have an off position, i think only my first motorcycle after the Vespa and lambretta scotters was a 1970's Honda 50SS had on-off headlight LoL.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,118 Posts
Thank you for the clear explanation, Regardless of the regulation in USA, CA etc. personally i do prefer an OFF position for the head light, its always been the main reason for draining the battery while i work on bikes specially when you have a starting issue and need the juice to crank the engine . not even my (1980,81,82 CB900 , 1982 650SC Nighthawk ,1983 650SC nighthawk, 1984 Kawazaki GPZ750 , 1985 Sabre 1100 ) have an off position, i think only my first motorcycle after the Vespa and lambretta scotters was a 1970's Honda 50SS had on-off headlight LoL.
I always keep a battery maintainer connected when bleeding ABS or other things requiring battery power. Generally, that is sufficient to keep the battery going during the work.
 

·
Wrencher Extraordinaire
2005 K1200LT
Joined
·
15,592 Posts
I have an HID head light and it does not like hot strikes (on and off repeated) during maintenance. I just connected a latching relay in line with the low beam circuit that is triggered by a flash of the high beam circuit (diode isolated of course). This way my head light does not come on until I command it to and the relay drops when the key is turned off. I also added a tell tail indicator in the dash to let me know I have not commanded the head light on.
 

Attachments

1 - 20 of 37 Posts
Top