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Discussion Starter #1
I searched through several relay threads and most of them hinge on what relay is in what position in the electrics box. Got that so no problem. Looks like the black relay is no more and it has been replaced by the yellow relay, All mine are black except for the ABS warning ( blue) relay. I searched through the Echlin catalog at Napa and found more than 12 that fit that form factor however, no specifications for any of them and the prices vary greatly.

I want to refresh all those little 16 year old relays so has anyone come up with an actual part number that works? I purchased an AR 614 to take home and play with. The coil is a lower 81 Ohms to the original black relay of 103 Ohms so it will draw more current to close which may or may not be significant and I have no idea what the contacts are rated at.

There is an AR7246 listed as multi function but the coil blades look wider in the picture. Looking for someone who has found a workable non stealer replacement part number as they are all the same except for the ABS relay.
 

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Wrencher Extraordinaire
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Both of those are most likely 30 amp contacts which will work just fine. One was for fuel injection or horn and the 614 was a power window relay. Only way to really tell is to pop them open and look at the contact size compared to what you are replacing.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Both of those are most likely 30 amp contacts which will work just fine. One was for fuel injection or horn and the 614 was a power window relay. Only way to really tell is to pop them open and look at the contact size compared to what you are replacing.
Thanks John. I have been doing a lot of research on relays over the last few days and that form factor with the lock in tabs on the sides doesn't seem to be readily available, or i haven't found one yet other than EME at only a few $ less than the dealer.

I did find a suitable relay with a coil resistance that was slightly higher than the one I pulled out to test and the price was a whopping $3.38 each at quantity with a contact rating of 30/20A and 119 Ohm coil. Only catch was I had to buy 15 of the but I think I still got off easy. I will sacrifice one and take it apart to examine what is inside and if I am pleased, I will go ahead and swap out all 7 of that type and put the old ones in a box to have and to hold in case these don't hold up for any reason.

Part number is 5-1393292-8 and the site is onlinecomponents.com located in Arizona. I have some spares since I bought 15 of them and need 7 plus the 2 expensive ones I bought from the auto store.

https://www.onlinecomponents.com/te-connectivity-amp-brand-513932928.html?p=44176076
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
OK, got my new relays and first thing I did was tear one apart to examine it. Then I pulled one of my originals apart and destroyed it so I could look at the contacts. They look pretty comparable although the ones shipped me have a diode for spike suppression versus the original with a resistor. I think I will just go ahead and swap out all 7 of this type as they should be a reasonable replacement for both the black and yellow relays. I have ordered the ABS flasher relay from EME as that turns out to be a NC relay with odd connections I could not find a non OEM replacement for.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Both of those are most likely 30 amp contacts which will work just fine. One was for fuel injection or horn and the 614 was a power window relay. Only way to really tell is to pop them open and look at the contact size compared to what you are replacing.
Well, I am going to make a recommendation to NOT use relays with diodes in them versus resistors for spike suppression.

John, the load shed relay diode smoked because I think the polarity is backwards for the coil in that circuit and it forward biassed the diode when I turned on the key to test out the new relays. Either that or I had infant mortality failure. I did see some smoke and I think there may have been some from the right hand multi switch but it was over the relay when it went so not sure yet. Put all the original relays back except the one I tore apart and left one new one in the horn spot.

Here is my dilemma. Tank off, key on, in neutral, side stand up and clutch pulled in. Push the start button and nothing happens. AM I missing something or did I do some additional damage I now need to find? I would think it would engage the starter under those conditions. Other than the missing tank, fuel pump and fuel sensor, it looks like everything is still working properly. ABS lights flashing, turn signals and brake lights work, horn, headlight is on so load relief relay in there is working.

This would have been a short on the coil side of the relief relay and not the main contacts so it didn't blow a fuse that I am aware of as the load relief relay appears to be working. Any ideas on why it won't crank or what I might have burned out that i need to fix? Schematic in clymer leaves a little to be desired IMO. better than nothing though.
 

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Im at work but check fuse F1 as that feeds the Load Relief relay with switched power. It is a 4 amp so it should have blown to protect the wiring.
 

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Here is my dilemma. Tank off, key on, in neutral, side stand up and clutch pulled in. Push the start button and nothing happens. AM I missing something or did I do some additional damage I now need to find? I would think it would engage the starter under those conditions. Other than the missing tank, fuel pump and fuel sensor, it looks like everything is still working properly. ABS lights flashing, turn signals and brake lights work, horn, headlight is on so load relief relay in there is working.

This would have been a short on the coil side of the relief relay and not the main contacts so it didn't blow a fuse that I am aware of as the load relief relay appears to be working. Any ideas on why it won't crank or what I might have burned out that i need to fix? Schematic in clymer leaves a little to be desired IMO. better than nothing though.
In addition to suggestion from JZEILER (John), do not forget system will behave like you describe above in these 2 conditions:
(1) Reverser Knob not fully to FORWARD position ..OR.. intermittent, or unplugged
(2) you have used GS911 to go into hall-Effect sensor timing menu and did NOT complete the procedure to its end.

Other than Motronic Fuse OR, Load-relief relay Fuse, there migh be a 3rd condition to list above:
(3) If you have the newer Blue Starter relay installed, it can also be a bit fussy about voltage spikes or shorts. We have a seen a few of these suddenly behave like you described above - the electronics circuitry inside that monitors system voltage appears to be a bit weak. In some cases, it just behaves as if Battery voltage is too weak and refuses to engage.

Although you have not specified above, I am assuming you have the RED Engine Temp warning ON after the ignition is switched ON - correct ??
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Im at work but check fuse F1 as that feeds the Load Relief relay with switched power. It is a 4 amp so it should have blown to protect the wiring.
I will check that John but I think it is actually still working as I have headlights when I turn on the key. It was late and I was tired so I didn't get too far into it. There is a slight smell about the right multi function switch but I pulled the offending relay apart and the diode was split so I know it went down hard. I am at work now also and don't have the book in front of me but I think the wire I need to find is black/yel to the starter relay from the button. Still trying to figure out what wire is what so I can start testing some things.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
In addition to suggestion from JZEILER (John), do not forget system will behave like you describe above in these 2 conditions:
(1) Reverser Knob not fully to FORWARD position ..OR.. intermittent, or unplugged
(2) you have used GS911 to go into hall-Effect sensor timing menu and did NOT complete the procedure to its end.

Other than Motronic Fuse OR, Load-relief relay Fuse, there migh be a 3rd condition to list above:
(3) If you have the newer Blue Starter relay installed, it can also be a bit fussy about voltage spikes or shorts. We have a seen a few of these suddenly behave like you described above - the electronics circuitry inside that monitors system voltage appears to be a bit weak. In some cases, it just behaves as if Battery voltage is too weak and refuses to engage.

Although you have not specified above, I am assuming you have the RED Engine Temp warning ON after the ignition is switched ON - correct ??
I will double check the reverser know but the handle is currently off and I did a start and running pressure test after I replaced the external fuel lines and QD's and all worked then. Only thing different is I pulled the tank back off and swapped the relays ( silly me). Turned on the key and was about to start verifying that all the relay functions worked and after about 10 seconds, I saw smoke. Turned everything off and tracked it to the load relay.

There is a connection to the starter relay that is also connected to the load relay on the schematic so I wonder if I somehow did fry my relatively new blue relay. :( It would be nice if it was that simple although it is still $109 US from EME. Don't have the fuel pump hooked up so I can't tell if the pump relay is engaging when I flip the kill switch. I don't hear the relay click but I haven't measured that yet.

I will double check the temp light. I think it was on as I had 2 red lights and one was the oil. ABS was flashing normally. Dinner plans tonight so I may not get to it before the weekend but want to at least try and see if I fried the starter relay and get one on order. I will also run through the fuses to make sure I don't have any blown ones.
 

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I will check that John but I think it is actually still working as I have headlights when I turn on the key. It was late and I was tired so I didn't get too far into it. There is a slight smell about the right multi function switch but I pulled the offending relay apart and the diode was split so I know it went down hard. I am at work now also and don't have the book in front of me but I think the wire I need to find is black/yel to the starter relay from the button. Still trying to figure out what wire is what so I can start testing some things.
If my memory is correct (no joke please...), I think you have an ABSII generation with the retrofitted BLUE starter relay.
If this assumption is correct, the wire you are looking for is a BLACK+YELLOW wire into Pin 7 of the Blue Starter Relay. Same wire exist with the older type BLACK starter relay but it is connected to different pin of this simpler Relay.

The same BLACK-YELLOW wire stays with same color into the Right side multi-function switch for Starter Button. However, the story is a bit convoluted as this signal also goes into the main reverser module.
 

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There is a connection to the starter relay that is also connected to the load relay on the schematic so I wonder if I somehow did fry my relatively new blue relay. :( It would be nice if it was that simple although it is still $109 US from EME. Don't have the fuel pump hooked up so I can't tell if the pump relay is engaging when I flip the kill switch. I don't hear the relay click but I haven't measured that yet.
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No need to put back the fuel tank for testing Priming signal: just install Voltmeter (on proper connector) AND check for 2 secs voltage UP than down, just after ignition ON. Motronic EFI on these does not know or care if fuel pump is plugged or not (no error logged). Only the air-box removal causes a minor error as the ambient temp sensor is often unplugged with air-box removed (but engine would still start).
 

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Discussion Starter #13
If my memory is correct (no joke please...), I think you have an ABSII generation with the retrofitted BLUE starter relay.
If this assumption is correct, the wire you are looking for is a BLACK+YELLOW wire into Pin 7 of the Blue Starter Relay. Same wire exist with the older type BLACK starter relay but it is connected to different pin of this simpler Relay.

The same BLACK-YELLOW wire stays with same color into the Right side multi-function switch for Starter Button. However, the story is a bit convoluted as this signal also goes into the main reverser module.
Yes, ABSII with retrofit. I did see that connection to the reverser on the schematic. So, that BLACK+YELLOW should have a positive voltage on it when I depress the start button assuming all the interlocks are met. If I see a signal and my starter doesn't turn, is my relay fried or do I need to also verify any other signal in conjunction with the start pulse?

There was a sound I heard once I replaced the load relay like the starter was groaning softly as I turned on the key( not trying to crank) but that was only once , maybe twice and has stopped. This happened without me pressing the start button.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Additional information on the part I ordered. Called the supplier and talked with their tech support. I found out that the differentiation in a relay with diode and one with a resistor is coded in the part number.

For instance

A relay with a part number of V23074-A1001-A402 based on the 1001 or the leading 1 would contain a resistor.

A relay with a part number of V23074-A2001-A402 based on the 2001 or the leading 2 would contain a diode.

So, the part number I ordered (5-1393292-8) was equivalent to the second part number so I got what I ordered and would say this is not a suitable replacement as the polarity on the socket may actually provide a forward bias to the diode where the resistor would not care. They do not stock the equivalent part number which would be 4-1904124-2 and the only distributor he had for it was Mouser Electronics with a long lead time and a 460 piece minimum order so that is likely a dead end. Now I know what to look for if I get other non OEM relays in the future. No diodes.
 

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If you have a headlight with the key on then the load shed relay is working and has a good connection to the starter side of the starter relay. If the headlight does not go out when you press the starter button then the starter relay is not passing 12v to the starter. The Diode blowing on the load shed relay would not have an affect on the starter relay at all. Time to look for another reason.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
If you have a headlight with the key on then the load shed relay is working and has a good connection to the starter side of the starter relay. If the headlight does not go out when you press the starter button then the starter relay is not passing 12v to the starter. The Diode blowing on the load shed relay would not have an affect on the starter relay at all. Time to look for another reason.
Checked all the fuses and they all measure good. No voltage at the fuel pump plug for prime interval, key on and any position of the kill switch.

Answering Sailors question, Engine temp light does not come on in neutral, stand up, in or out of reverse. Something is different as I remember doing the test for you and the light did come on.
 

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Checked all the fuses and they all measure good. No voltage at the fuel pump plug for prime interval, key on and any position of the kill switch.

Answering Sailors question, Engine temp light does not come on in neutral, stand up, in or out of reverse. Something is different as I remember doing the test for you and the light did come on.
After ignition ON, the engine-temp-light and the fuel-pump priming sequence are BOTH related. If you see neither, Motronic EFI is off the line (as if the sidestand was down with gear engaged). This means the starter safety interlocks is active and nothing will ever start in this mode (no starter, no injector pulse...).

Of course the Kill switch will also actives the same starter interlocks (and engine temp light off), so we need to keep in mind this if you saw (or expect) damage to the right hand switch assy.

P.S.:
The K1200LT has one more Relay that we do not have on K1200RS/GT. It is called "Emergency shutoff" Relay and is located separate in lower Electrical junction box (where a bunch of large connectors meet). There is a poor photo in CLYMER about this.

This one is an important Relay in the function of Starter interlocks. Hopefully JZEILER will chime as he is more familiar with these specifics of K1200LT.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
After ignition ON, the engine-temp-light and the fuel-pump priming sequence are BOTH related. If you see neither, Motronic EFI is off the line (as if the sidestand was down with gear engaged). This means the starter safety interlocks is active and nothing will ever start in this mode (no starter, no injector pulse...).

Of course the Kill switch will also actives the same starter interlocks (and engine temp light off), so we need to keep in mind this if you saw (or expect) damage to the right hand switch assy.

P.S.:
The K1200LT has one more Relay that we do not have on K1200RS/GT. It is called "Emergency shutoff" Relay and is located separate in lower Electrical junction box (where a bunch of large connectors meet). There is a poor photo in CLYMER about this.

This one is an important Relay in the function of Starter interlocks. Hopefully JZEILER will chime as he is more familiar with these specifics of K1200LT.
I am aware of the emergency shut off relay located next to the brake light relay behind the connector block. I changed those two out also with all the others and they are now back to original relays. Is this the relay that is activated by any of the interlocks being active?

Update. Luckily I labeled all the relays so I know which ones were in what slot. I just pulled apart the emergency shut off relay and the diode in that one is also fried. I have the OEM relay back in place and have tested its function i the brake light position but I have no signal in the ESO relay for the coil pins so I have another direction to look at when I get home from work today.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Of course the Kill switch will also actives the same starter interlocks (and engine temp light off), so we need to keep in mind this if you saw (or expect) damage to the right hand switch assy.
Brought my book to work so I could look at the schematics during lax minutes. What I see is there are 2 wires on the right multi switch associated with the interlocks. My Clymer is page 596 1999-2000 LT models reverse. Without measuring, I am going to make general assumptions for later testing that the GREEN+RED wire between the MFS and the ESO relay is V+ to the relay and is controlled possibly by the kill switch as a master control for the interlocks?

I don't know what logic is in the reverse controller but it must be a logical loop of the remaining interlocs with a path to ground being, side stand switch, reverse switch, neutral switch etc....

Assumption #2 With no +12V on the GREEN+RED with the key on, the entire interlock circuit is dead as the relay will never engage.

Steps:
1: verify +12V is on the GREEN wire leading to the right MFS with key on. If no +12, ignition switch damage may be suspect however, load relief relay functions so assuming +12 is present but verify.

2. verify +12 on GREEN+RED wire with key on and kill switch in center position. Should vary with left and right position change. If no +12, right MFS is suspect.

3. If 1 and 2 are present, possible reverse controller damage as it looks like the rest of the interlocks pass through there. Verify interlock switches one at a time to make sure no damage there.

If by chance the GREEN+BROWN is supplying the +12 then the right MFS would be supplying the path to ground but since BMW uses BROWN for ground, I am assuming that the GREEN+BROWN is a path to ground and GREEN+RED is the positive voltage.

EDIT: It looks like the GREEN+BROWN also connects to the motronic relay so that is another one I need to pull apart to inspect. Also verify +12 on the GREEN+BLACK wire on the motronic socket.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
New part number and distributor. 4-1904124-2 crosses from V23074-A1001-A402

https://www.ttiinc.com/content/ttii...tsNumber=4-1904124-2&mfgShortname=TYC&utm=704

Distributor has a minimum QTY 3 order so I bought 10 and will see what I get BEFORE i install any of them.

AGAIN, SUBSTITUTE RELAYS WITH DIODES INSTEAD OF RESISTORS ARE NOT COMPATIBLE AS REPLACEMENTS AS BMW DOES NOT SEEM TO MAINTAIN A WIRING STANDARD TO SUPPORT THEM AND IT RESULTS IN A FORWARD BIAS CONDITION AND DAMAGE CAN RESULT. JUST A NOTE FOR READERS OF THIS THREAD WHO MAY BE LOOKING FOR A LESS EXPENSIVE REPLACEMENT AS I WAS.
 
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