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Discussion Starter #1
I won't start until probably tomorrow night but I wondered if there is any virtue in bleeding out the old fluid while the old lines are in place versus just doing the system after the new lines are on?

It almost feels like flushing out as much of the old brake fluid as possible before putting new lines on would mitigate how much old brake fluid remains in the system somewhere, such as abs reservoirs, etc. Not worth wasting the new fluid?
 

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I have replaced 7 sets of lines so far and find a full drain always makes it less messy.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I have replaced 7 sets of lines so far and find a full drain always makes it less messy.
Just to be clear do you mean you do a full drain (gravity or pressure?) with old lines on and then replace the lines, and then do a bleed with new fluid? This is the first abs set I have done, I assume once I do the servo pumping process that will push out any old fluid and air in the abs res. areas?
 

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I just pump out all the fluid so I don't have it dripping out of the removed lines. On refill I usually push fluid from the calipers to the ABS unit especially on the 2001-2004 since the reservoirs are remote.
 
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Don’t use pressure to drain the lines, just let them drain by gravity. That should effectively drain the hard lines too. Btw what year is the bike?
 
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Discussion Starter #6
Don’t use pressure to drain the lines, just let them drain by gravity. That should effectively drain the hard lines too. Btw what year is the bike?

2003. The upper res. actually looks pretty clear upon looking. So, once I get all the new lines hooked up, that means there is just air everywhere, right? Will following Kirk's or JZ's process purge all the air without going for days, lol
 

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Yes it will, I follow Kirk’s video. You use the pump to bleed the brake circuits. It’s actually pretty fast.
 

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Don’t use pressure to drain the lines, just let them drain by gravity. That should effectively drain the hard lines too. Btw what year is the bike?
Yeah when I looked back at what I wrote... Don't use the pumps to clear the lines you do not want to run those motors dry. For the front put a hose and bag on the farthest front caliper and open the bleeder. Then crack loose the top front flex line banjo and let it all drain and then remove the lines. For the line from the MC to the hard line I put a catch pan at the hard line and undo the banjo, then crack the banjo at the MC ( I use a syringe and hose to suck out the fluid from the reservoirs first ).
 
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Discussion Starter #9
Yeah when I looked back at what I wrote... Don't use the pumps to clear the lines you do not want to run those motors dry. For the front put a hose and bag on the farthest front caliper and open the bleeder. Then crack loose the top front flex line banjo and let it all drain and then remove the lines. For the line from the MC to the hard line I put a catch pan at the hard line and undo the banjo, then crack the banjo at the MC ( I use a syringe and hose to suck out the fluid from the reservoirs first ).
Appreciate that! I am currently carbing up and going over notes and videos and tips such as yours before I venture out into the garage :)
 

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Be prepared to spend some serious time on this project the first time you do it. Did you order replacement banjo bolts as well? The news bolts will require more torque with the included washers than the torque needed for the originals.

Also, put the towel over the front of the bike by the brake lever. Before I was ready, my helper squeezed the lever and spewed fluid. Not so good. Take your time and you can do it.
 

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Maybe someone can chime in on using the fluid to rinse any loose built up metal shavings at the bottom of your ABS unit waiting to be stirred up and sent through the system. As I read can happen, I am pretty convinced my brake fluid change sent metal into my rubber hoses, causing me to change them out with Spieglers. When removing a brake line, we saw some metal shavings. My friend said, "Looks like you will be replacing your ABS unit soon." I called him a lot of really bad names in my head but kept my mouth shut after his great help. I did flush all new fluid through my system after the new brake line install instead of circulating new fluid back into the system to get rid of air.
This is a two person job or least is made much easier with two people.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Maybe someone can chime in on using the fluid to rinse any loose built up metal shavings at the bottom of your ABS unit waiting to be stirred up and sent through the system. As I read can happen, I am pretty convinced my brake fluid change sent metal into my rubber hoses, causing me to change them out with Spieglers. When removing a brake line, we saw some metal shavings. My friend said, "Looks like you will be replacing your ABS unit soon." I called him a lot of really bad names in my head but kept my mouth shut after his great help. I did flush all new fluid through my system after the new brake line install instead of circulating new fluid back into the system to get rid of air.
This is a two person job or least is made much easier with two people.
Hey Jim, thanks for the tips! I haven't gotten to the brakes yet, just methodically doing the tupperware watching Kirk on the monitor in the garage. I did the RT so many times over the last four years it is very familiar except for some added layers. I have also discovered two dead well nuts, two missing bolts and two non-bmw phillips bolts along the bottom left plastic as well as two under the left tipover rubber that are T15, lol. I imagine I may find something similar on the right side in the morning, unsure. The good thing about setting up a foam folding board, at least for the first time is you can visualize what is missing and what is not oem. AC, owner of Eurotek BMW in OKC is throwing a Ducati luncheon tomorrow but invited the BMW trash so I must be there for that and will see about a couple of well nuts and some bolts :).

With regard to the brakes, I did not get new banjo bolts, Kirk advised using the old ones so we shall see. What would shed metal pieces into the brake fluid?? Can those abs reservoirs be opened and evacuated? I haven't looked yet. Just to review, once I open the rear bleed bolt will it remove the front container of fluid and similarly from the front? Does anyone go in and clean out the receptacles or just let the fluid sweep it out? I don't know if the rear fluid container is dirty, the handlebar one looks pretty clean. My son is going to help when it comes time to operate the servos and pump/bleed.

JZeiller has mentioned pushing and I actually saw the device he has on a truck show on tv Jessie used to be on but don't have that, just a mity vac so intend to follow Kirk's process and hope for the best.

Are you around Wichita? I was born there, now in Yukon, OK, just west of OKC, maybe we can do a meetup one of these days once I get done catching Large Marge up, lol. I think most of the mature LT riders down here have switched to either 1600 GTL or went trike.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Yeah when I looked back at what I wrote... Don't use the pumps to clear the lines you do not want to run those motors dry. For the front put a hose and bag on the farthest front caliper and open the bleeder. Then crack loose the top front flex line banjo and let it all drain and then remove the lines. For the line from the MC to the hard line I put a catch pan at the hard line and undo the banjo, then crack the banjo at the MC ( I use a syringe and hose to suck out the fluid from the reservoirs first ).
I was in NAPA looking for some cinch clamps (no have) and stumbled upon a reverse bleeder kit that purports to push fluid as you describe back to the MC. You sound pretty sold on this, I may try it. First I will review your supplement to Kirk's video. Time to get cracking, lol.
 

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Yes I push from the front calipers to the reservoir (05+ on the ABS; 2001-2004 the rear half of the dual reservoir under the pillion seat). I also push fluid from the ABS tall bleed nipple to the front handle bar reservoir. I never had any success pushing from the ABS tall bleeder to the rear MC reservoir as the line dips down and back up trapping air. I just fill the reservoir and pump the MC to move the fluid up to the ABS. Some one else said they leave the banjo loose on the MC until fluid starts to leak out, so that may be a good option. I just pumped the heck out of the rear MC until I got all the air out at the ABS. The rear caliper circuit will just drain down OK on its own once the reservoir is full since it is all down hill.
 
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Hey Jim, thanks for the tips! I haven't gotten to the brakes yet, just methodically doing the tupperware watching Kirk on the monitor in the garage. I did the RT so many times over the last four years it is very familiar except for some added layers. I have also discovered two dead well nuts, two missing bolts and two non-bmw phillips bolts along the bottom left plastic as well as two under the left tipover rubber that are T15, lol. I imagine I may find something similar on the right side in the morning, unsure. The good thing about setting up a foam folding board, at least for the first time is you can visualize what is missing and what is not oem. AC, owner of Eurotek BMW in OKC is throwing a Ducati luncheon tomorrow but invited the BMW trash so I must be there for that and will see about a couple of well nuts and some bolts :).

With regard to the brakes, I did not get new banjo bolts, Kirk advised using the old ones so we shall see. What would shed metal pieces into the brake fluid?? Can those abs reservoirs be opened and evacuated? I haven't looked yet. Just to review, once I open the rear bleed bolt will it remove the front container of fluid and similarly from the front? Does anyone go in and clean out the receptacles or just let the fluid sweep it out? I don't know if the rear fluid container is dirty, the handlebar one looks pretty clean. My son is going to help when it comes time to operate the servos and pump/bleed.

JZeiller has mentioned pushing and I actually saw the device he has on a truck show on tv Jessie used to be on but don't have that, just a mity vac so intend to follow Kirk's process and hope for the best.

Are you around Wichita? I was born there, now in Yukon, OK, just west of OKC, maybe we can do a meetup one of these days once I get done catching Large Marge up, lol. I think most of the mature LT riders down here have switched to either 1600 GTL or went trike.
Yep, I live in Wichita. Glad you enjoy working on the bike. Once you get it all ready to go, you should have plenty of confidence in it. I love to ride when I can. Maybe we can meet up.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Yes I push from the front calipers to the reservoir (05+ on the ABS; 2001-2004 the rear half of the dual reservoir under the pillion seat). I also push fluid from the ABS tall bleed nipple to the front handle bar reservoir. I never had any success pushing from the ABS tall bleeder to the rear MC reservoir as the line dips down and back up trapping air. I just fill the reservoir and pump the MC to move the fluid up to the ABS. Some one else said they leave the banjo loose on the MC until fluid starts to leak out, so that may be a good option. I just pumped the heck out of the rear MC until I got all the air out at the ABS. The rear caliper circuit will just drain down OK on its own once the reservoir is full since it is all down hill.
"I also push fluid from the ABS tall bleed nipple to the front handle bar reservoir." I am not familiar with this nipple but will go see if something jumps out at me.

Update: is it in this picture or are you talking about up under the forks?
 

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In your photo the two long nipples are the ones to use. The one out board is the front and the other the rear.

These are the ports you will need to bleed at the end for the control circuits. Go in that order and back to 1 at the end for front and rear respectively.

OK I went and watched both videos. One is line replacement on a non-integral bike (replacement is the same for both non and integral bikes so that is OK except for the filling part. The second video is for a brake FLUSH not bleed on a 2004 integral bike. The difference is you want the hose vertical at the bleed ports so you can see when all the air is gone. No need to pump, open , close and pump again. Just keep the hose vertical and open the bleed port and pump away as air will not go DOWN the hose. Just pump unit the line is clear of bubbles.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Well in between social butterfly responsibilities I got the new lines on today. It was not difficult since I had it just about down to the nubbins, having the airhorn off makes life easier up front.

The only blips in the project involved the length of the two front caliper lines and the rear line:

The front ones had no slack margin at all. They were straight and just barely long enough to fit without struggle. As it is I wish I had another half inch of margin. I am not sure if the lines have to do much flexing up front but hopefully not much.

The rear line was not very close to the bends of the stock line. Both ends had fairly long straight necks. This caused the front to be a little close to the wheel for my tastes, and the rear did not follow the curvature of the rotor, it made for an offset curve. It all fit but not like the originals.

Are Spieglers known for being very precise fitting? There were also only two lines with ID tags and one I couldn't read, although to be honest it wasn't difficult to determine where they went.

So, they are on but am not pleased with the way the rear line sits at the moment. I don't think I should have to bend the shank other than re-positioning using their tool, which I had to do to both ends of the rear line.
 

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Well in between social butterfly responsibilities I got the new lines on today. It was not difficult since I had it just about down to the nubbins, having the airhorn off makes life easier up front.

The only blips in the project involved the length of the two front caliper lines and the rear line:

The front ones had no slack margin at all. They were straight and just barely long enough to fit without struggle. As it is I wish I had another half inch of margin. I am not sure if the lines have to do much flexing up front but hopefully not much.

The rear line was not very close to the bends of the stock line. Both ends had fairly long straight necks. This caused the front to be a little close to the wheel for my tastes, and the rear did not follow the curvature of the rotor, it made for an offset curve. It all fit but not like the originals.

Are Spieglers known for being very precise fitting? There were also only two lines with ID tags and one I couldn't read, although to be honest it wasn't difficult to determine where they went.

So, they are on but am not pleased with the way the rear line sits at the moment. I don't think I should have to bend the shank other than re-positioning using their tool, which I had to do to both ends of the rear line.
Yours look fine. The front lines are basically rigid as the calipers are bolted to the forks. My only concern is that every time I remove the calipers to change front tires, the hose fitting twists a little as I remove and install the calipers. The short hose is just too stiff to allow the slight twisting required to get the calipers off the rotors. No leaks yet, but I wonder about this long term.
 
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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Yours look fine. The front lines are basically rigid as the calipers are bolted to the forks. My only concern is that every time I remove the calipers to change front tires, the hose fitting twists a little as I remove and install the calipers. The short hose is just too stiff to allow the slight twisting required to get the calipers off the rotors. No leaks yet, but I wonder about this long term.
I was having the same thoughts about that and emailed Matthias at Spiegler this morning with the pictures. He said they do barely have any slack and that was by design. He said removing and twisting the calipers and such would not be detrimental to the lines. He suggested "removing the M6 bolts for the left and right bracket at the lower fork legs to make it easier". Apparently no worries from Spiegler side :). I still don't like the longer necks on the rear line but will see how they work. If I put the fitting on the outside of the stop tab it would bring the line further away from the wheel but I wonder if that would allow a gradual loosening since it would not be braced against the tab...will leave it as is for now.

Next up, the always-fun bleeding of the system, lol.
 
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