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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, I've got a Goldwing, and frankly I'm getting tired of Goldwing owners talking about all of the maintenance issues with BMW's. But here is one I just have to find out so I can believe it or debunk it.

He says their is no drain plug, the oil has to be sucked out. And if a dealer does not do it, the bike shuts down and has to be reset by the dealer.

BTW, he is not clear whether he is talking about the new 1600, or other BMW's. Here is a link to the thread....

http://gl1800riders.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268653

See post 11. Any truth to this?

BTW, I'm the thread starter on this thread.
 

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can't speak to the new 1600, but I CAN say that every other BMW motorcycle does indeed have an oil drain plug and does NOT require that you "suck out the oil."

Now perhaps your friend likes sucking things and might want to, but it's not a requirement.

The new 1600 will have a dry sump oil system which I can't possibly imagine would not have a conventional drain and fill process.
 

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The only thing I do on my bikes besides adding farkles is change the oil. I checked the K1600 and the oil filter is easy to reach, and the oil drain plug is also easily accessible.

What a load of crap... :rotf: instead of welcoming another 6 cylinder luxo tourer which will put pressure on Honda to up the ante, they seem threatened and come up with this sort of nonesense...
 

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Jim,

I posted my response over on that forum. Is it April Fools?

I'm baffled by some of the posts. I really wish that Honda was introducing a new GoldWing at the same time as BMW's K1600. That would give us some comparison. I just don't feel like waiting to see if Honda even comes out with something new in 2012.
 

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What a bunch of balloney. Sounds like a very jellious Lead Wing rider. Beemers can be expensive if you let the dealer do all the work. But they are not hard to work on and you can save alot of money by doing it your self.
 

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I think the poor guy is confused from when BMW in '05 stopped adding the final drive drain plug. And they had the dealer only maintenance reminder reset. He's on his own for explaining the "shut down" issue...
 

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Yes, he's confused, but so are most of the responses here. :)

The Slant/4 engines (K1200/K1300 S R GT) have a dry sump engine, which means most of the oil is stored in a separate oil tank under the seat rather than in the bottom of the engine under the crank. That allows the engine to sit lower in the frame, improving center of gravity for better handling.

There is still a conventional oil filter and drain plug, although that'll only get about 1/2 a quart out. The rest of the oil comes out by draining the oil tank. There is a drain hose that makes this easy, although it is a bit slow due to the small diameter of the hose.

Some guys have used a hand pump to suck the oil out of the oil tank, but this is not the factory procedure, although either method works just fine.

Also, the bike won't "shut down" due to a lack of dealer service. That's simply ludicrous.

Some of the Slant/4 bikes came with a Service Reminder light that would come on after so many miles. But that was removed in a later ECU software version, and at no point did it "shut down" the bike.

The Slant/4 motors are also part of BMW's Reduced Maintenance Cost program. Service costs (both labor and parts) are noticeably less than the LT. For example, the air filter can be changed without removing the gas tank, and there is no fuel filter to change at all.

I've ridden 150K miles on the new K-bikes and I've done dozens of services on my K1200GT and friend's K-bikes, including the full valve service, radiator flush/refill, and final drive service. All of that can be accomplished by a home mechanic with a decent set of tools and the knowledge of how to use them.

I imagine that the Slant/6 K1600 motor will be much the same . . .

Feel free to copy this response over onto the 'Wing board. :bmw:
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for the responses. The anti-BMW attitude gets really tiring for me. I've had plenty of Honda's, but frankly they are getting a little arrogant in their products and pricing. They also refuse to fix what many people don't like about the bike.

On the other hand, there are Goldwing owners who think the bike is a cross between a crotch rocked and a Town Car for comfortable touring. They think it's ok that they have to spend $2500 on a front suspension upgrade because Honda refused to fix the cheap design. The Goldwing is far and away the worst riding bike I've every ridden.

In fairness to the Goldwing forum, there are some really good folks there. But BMW's seem to bring out the worst bashing I've ever seen on a forum - and I'm on a lot of car and motorcycle forums.

BTW, I have a Z06 Corvette with a dry sump system so I'm very familiar with them. :D
 

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Totally agree. I test rode a Goldwing thinking it might be my next bike and was utterly disappointed. It just felt like a car on 2 wheels with horrid suspension.

Btw, a friend who rides an ST1300 has had his wiring harness and ECU replaced under warranty and apparently it's not an isolated case.. but you don't hear much bashing there. I'm tired of hearing that snobs ride beamers.. :rolleyes:

At any rate, Honda's lost the plot.. they produce bikes that no one wants at ridiculous prices, i.e. DN-O1... they promised the world with the new VFR1200 and didn't deliver.
Anyway, no point in Honda bashing.


jjscsix said:
Thanks for the responses. The anti-BMW attitude gets really tiring for me. I've had plenty of Honda's, but frankly they are getting a little arrogant in their products and pricing. They also refuse to fix what many people don't like about the bike.

On the other hand, there are Goldwing owners who think the bike is a cross between a crotch rocked and a Town Car for comfortable touring. They think it's ok that they have to spend $2500 on a front suspension upgrade because Honda refused to fix the cheap design. The Goldwing is far and away the worst riding bike I've every ridden.

In fairness to the Goldwing forum, there are some really good folks there. But BMW's seem to bring out the worst bashing I've ever seen on a forum - and I'm on a lot of car and motorcycle forums.

BTW, I have a Z06 Corvette with a dry sump system so I'm very familiar with them. :D
 

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meese said:
Yes, he's confused, but so are most of the responses here. :)

The Slant/4 engines (K1200/K1300 S R GT) have a dry sump engine, which means most of the oil is stored in a separate oil tank under the seat rather than in the bottom of the engine under the crank. That allows the engine to sit lower in the frame, improving center of gravity for better handling.

There is still a conventional oil filter and drain plug, although that'll only get about 1/2 a quart out. The rest of the oil comes out by draining the oil tank. There is a drain hose that makes this easy, although it is a bit slow due to the small diameter of the hose.

Some guys have used a hand pump to suck the oil out of the oil tank, but this is not the factory procedure, although either method works just fine.

Also, the bike won't "shut down" due to a lack of dealer service. That's simply ludicrous.

Some of the Slant/4 bikes came with a Service Reminder light that would come on after so many miles. But that was removed in a later ECU software version, and at no point did it "shut down" the bike.

The Slant/4 motors are also part of BMW's Reduced Maintenance Cost program. Service costs (both labor and parts) are noticeably less than the LT. For example, the air filter can be changed without removing the gas tank, and there is no fuel filter to change at all.

I've ridden 150K miles on the new K-bikes and I've done dozens of services on my K1200GT and friend's K-bikes, including the full valve service, radiator flush/refill, and final drive service. All of that can be accomplished by a home mechanic with a decent set of tools and the knowledge of how to use them.

I imagine that the Slant/6 K1600 motor will be much the same . . .

Feel free to copy this response over onto the 'Wing board. :bmw:
How does the new K bike handle crud in the fuel?

Is the new K engine the one that reputedly needs a vacuum to properly refill the cooling system? Or is that another urban legend.
 

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Voyager said:
How does the new K bike handle crud in the fuel?
There is a screen bag on the fuel pump inlet inside the tank.

In 150K miles, I've never had a dirty fuel issue. I also have a 5-gallon aux fuel tank with a clear inline filter, and have never seen any real crap collect in it.

Voyager said:
Is the new K engine the one that reputedly needs a vacuum to properly refill the cooling system?
Yes, the radiator is vacuum-filled. Again, it's because of the compactness of the engine layout, and to ensure that there are no air pockets that can cause localized heating issues. You can get the vacuum using an air compressor attachment or a hand-held vacuum pump, either of which cost about an hour's dealer labor rate as a one-time purchase.

I've vacuum-filled these radiators a bunch of times and never had any issues.
 

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meese said:
There is a screen bag on the fuel pump inlet inside the tank.

In 150K miles, I've never had a dirty fuel issue. I also have a 5-gallon aux fuel tank with a clear inline filter, and have never seen any real crap collect in it.

Yes, the radiator is vacuum-filled. Again, it's because of the compactness of the engine layout, and to ensure that there are no air pockets that can cause localized heating issues. You can get the vacuum using an air compressor attachment or a hand-held vacuum pump, either of which cost about an hour's dealer labor rate as a one-time purchase.

I've vacuum-filled these radiators a bunch of times and never had any issues.
I have rarely had really bad gas, but I have occasionally gotten a load of crud and had to change a filter.

Is there a particular vacuum attachment you have used and would recommend?
 

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jjscsix said:
...The anti-BMW attitude gets really tiring for me. I've had plenty of Honda's, but frankly they are getting a little arrogant in their products and pricing. They also refuse to fix what many people don't like about the bike.

...But BMW's seem to bring out the worst bashing I've ever seen on a forum - and I'm on a lot of car and motorcycle forums.
You think the Honda guys are rough, you should read the comments on a Harley forum - brutal! Oh well, to each his own, I've ridden a number of different brands over the years, and now I'm looking forward to my first Beemer.
 

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I've used several different vacuum attachments. Since I don't have a compressor in my garage, I usually go to a friend's house and use whatever they have.

MightyVac makes a decent, affordable vacuum kit that works just fine on a standard compressor. And another friend has a hand pump kit that also does the job (although with a bit more manual labor :)).

Keep in mind that refilling the radiator is normally only done after doing a valve check, and that is every 18K. Now that's 2-3 times a year for me, but probably only every year or two for most riders. Even so, the full service including valve check is a half-day job once you know what you're doing. And the normal 6K or 12K service is a couple of hours and a couple of beers at most. :)
 

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meese said:
Yes, he's confused, but so are most of the responses here. :)

The Slant/4 engines (K1200/K1300 S R GT) have a dry sump engine, which means most of the oil is stored in a separate oil tank under the seat rather than in the bottom of the engine under the crank. That allows the engine to sit lower in the frame, improving center of gravity for better handling.

There is still a conventional oil filter and drain plug, although that'll only get about 1/2 a quart out. The rest of the oil comes out by draining the oil tank. There is a drain hose that makes this easy, although it is a bit slow due to the small diameter of the hose.

Some guys have used a hand pump to suck the oil out of the oil tank, but this is not the factory procedure, although either method works just fine.

Also, the bike won't "shut down" due to a lack of dealer service. That's simply ludicrous.

Some of the Slant/4 bikes came with a Service Reminder light that would come on after so many miles. But that was removed in a later ECU software version, and at no point did it "shut down" the bike.
Which is why I found the post so hysterical. I too like Jim, owned a Corvette with the dry sump, had a K1300GT, and a lot of aircraft piston engines are dry sump as well. Yes it's not as simple as just dropping the plug but it's not a big deal. Just so happen to have the tools already to do this. Couldn't put the oil filter in a more convenient place. Kudos for them on that one.

Posted your comment on the GL1800 board with the appropriate byline.
 

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The K1600 has an internal dry sump so unlike the K1300, the oil will drain with the removal of just one drain plug, or so I'm told. and unlike the K1300, no body panels need to be removed to access the oil filter and drain plug.

Btw, the 1200GS / RT also do not have a replaceable fuel filter.
 

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meese said:
Yes, he's confused, but so are most of the responses here. :)

The Slant/4 engines (K1200/K1300 S R GT) have a dry sump engine, which means most of the oil is stored in a separate oil tank under the seat rather than in the bottom of the engine under the crank. That allows the engine to sit lower in the frame, improving center of gravity for better handling.

There is still a conventional oil filter and drain plug, although that'll only get about 1/2 a quart out. The rest of the oil comes out by draining the oil tank. There is a drain hose that makes this easy, although it is a bit slow due to the small diameter of the hose...
Well after that explanation he isn't nearly as confused as I originally gave him credit for.

:D
 

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Raaze12 said:
You think the Honda guys are rough, you should read the comments on a Harley forum - brutal! Oh well, to each his own, I've ridden a number of different brands over the years, and now I'm looking forward to my first Beemer.
Oh, I would love to hear what the Harley guys are saying. Better yet, I would love to respond to their comments! LOL!

I'm not sure why the GW'ers would be bashing the 1600. It's not really aimed at the GW. It's more of a competitor of the ST1300.

Oh well...
 

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Travis said:
Oh, I would love to hear what the Harley guys are saying. Better yet, I would love to respond to their comments! LOL!

I'm not sure why the GW'ers would be bashing the 1600. It's not really aimed at the GW. It's more of a competitor of the ST1300.

Oh well...
A lot of Harley folks bash all things not carrying the bar and shield.

The Wingnuts are either bored or jealous. It is hard to determine from that thread. Probably mostly the latter ! (Exhibit A below) :histerica

 

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Discussion Starter #20
Travis said:
Oh, I would love to hear what the Harley guys are saying. Better yet, I would love to respond to their comments! LOL!

I'm not sure why the GW'ers would be bashing the 1600. It's not really aimed at the GW. It's more of a competitor of the ST1300.

Oh well...
A couple of points. First of all, the Goldwing owners are not bashing the 1600's per se, they are bashing BMWs. I'm on the GW forum all the time, the bashing of BMW's is centered around high maintenance costs, reliability problems and poor dealer network.

Second, I think the GT is sort of aimed at the ST1300 and it's competitors, and the GTL more the Goldwing. I own both a Goldwing and a couple of Sport Touring bikes and that is how I'm looking at the new 1600's.
 
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