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Bouncer
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Discussion Starter #1
A very reliable source has told me the following information regarding the next-gen K1200LT:

  • The next-gen LT launch date has been moved back by 1 year. It will arrive at Intermot in the fall of 2008 and arrive in the spring of 2009
  • Because for the new K1200GT, sales of LTs and RTs have dropped off significantly, while the GT sales pipeline is so hot, it's off the scale
  • The backlog of K1200LTs in inventory and production, based on the slowing sales, has caused BMW to continue with the current-gen K1200LT through the 2008 model year.
  • BMW has been tracking trade-ins very closely with the new K1200GT. The majority of trade-ins for the new GT is from RT and LT riders, helping to drive this decision making at BMW
  • Based on what happens with K1200LT sales over the next 2 years, BMW may or may not decide to produce a next-gen K1200LT, leaving the K1200GT and R1200RT as the two choices for 2-up luxury touring
What does this mean?

To me, it means that if K1200LT sales do not pick up in the next year, there might not be a K1200LT past this current generation. It also means that demand is currently driving production and product development at BMW, which is a double-edged sword. High demand for the GT might cannibalize the existing LT and RT markets and drive the next-gen K1200LT off the development list.

On a side note, I've heard that the rumors of a radio/audio system in the next-gen K1200GT have been GREATLY exaggerated.

F800S/ST is still slated for next spring in the US. No pricing has been announced, but the US dealer network has told BMW that if it doesn't come in at under $10K, not to bother.
 

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eljeffe said:
.....What does this mean?

To me, it means that if K1200LT sales do not pick up in the next year, there might not be a K1200LT past this current generation. It also means that demand is currently driving production and product development at BMW, which is a double-edged sword. High demand for the GT might cannibalize the existing LT and RT markets and drive the next-gen K1200LT off the development list......
Man, oh man, Jeff.

Personally, I would love a GT for solo LD touring and even medium distance two-up runs. But for those of us that enjoy two-up LD riding, let 'em know that, if they drop the LT, there is going to be a large number of pillion partners that cast a BMW veto in favor of a GW.

Sincerely,
Someone waiting impatiently for a "S4" version K-LT.

.
 

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Sounds like BMW wants to get out of the two up touring market.

If the LT didn't exist, I would be riding an '06 Wing right now.

Seems like a foolhardy move to me.
 

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BillyOmaha said:
[Personally, I would love a GT for solo LD touring and even medium distance two-up runs. But for those of us that enjoy two-up LD riding, let 'em know that, if they drop the LT, there is going to be a large number of pillion partners that cast a BMW veto in favor of a GW..
[/font]
my sentiments ed zachary.
 

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I agree, except I really hate the idea of owning a Gold Wing.
I'll trade my current LT for the last model year LT and ride it forever!
 

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Thats bad news....I was saving my sheckels for a new LT when they came out. Looks like a new GT is in my future instead.....
BMW there are 2 up LD riders out there....are you listening? :confused: :mad:




F
 

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BMW needs to be careful not to repeat the logic error that led to New Coke. i.e. don't make decisions based on just one data point.

Just because RT and LT riders are trading for GTs now doesn't necessarily mean that's what they would do if there was a new LT to choose from too. They may be trading that way because they want a new bike now and the GT is the only alternative in the line that offers the next gen motor in a touring package.
 

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It's interesting that I always seem to get an update from my contact in Germany the same time Jeff gets an update. My contact confirms that the LT has been put back in the release cycle by 8-10 months but primarily due to engineering issues. Nothing mentioned about GT sales and I would offer that this same "logic" came out with the new RT as well. Without the ability to release the LT next year, the company is focused on the release two new 650 models in conjunction with a "rennsport" version of 800 to fill out their entry level stable. The proposed GS version of the 800 has also been moved back to a potential 2008 model if at all.

BMW designed the LT for the American market. However, their efforts seem very focused on the entry level power street bikes and dual sports preferred by new, one-up riders, including an increasing proliferation of females. The LT may well become the orphan and a number of us may be back on Goldwings in a few years. Is BMW saving the best for last or are they waffling on their commitment to two-up, luxury roadbikes? Just to keep the fire fanned, it was mentioned that there is a possibility BMW will release the new LT as a 10th Anniversary special.
 

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Bouncer
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Discussion Starter #9
BillyOmaha said:
Man, oh man, Jeff.

Personally, I would love a GT for solo LD touring and even medium distance two-up runs. But for those of us that enjoy two-up LD riding, let 'em know that, if they drop the LT, there is going to be a large number of pillion partners that cast a BMW veto in favor of a GW.

Sincerely,
Someone waiting impatiently for a "S4" version K-LT.

.
As I told Greg on the other site, it's only 2009. It's not like it's never.

Hell, a simple letter writing campaign to BMW might actually stimulate their interest in moving it back to 2008.
 

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Bouncer
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Discussion Starter #10
Tallyho said:
It's interesting that I always seem to get an update from my contact in Germany the same time Jeff gets an update. My contact confirms that the LT has been put back in the release cycle by 8-10 months but primarily due to engineering issues. Nothing mentioned about GT sales and I would offer that this same "logic" came out with the new RT as well. Without the ability to release the LT next year, the company is focused on the release two new 650 models in conjunction with a "rennsport" version of 800 to fill out their entry level stable. The proposed GS version of the 800 has also been moved back to a potential 2008 model if at all.

BMW designed the LT for the American market. However, their efforts seem very focused on the entry level power street bikes and dual sports preferred by new, one-up riders, including an increasing proliferation of females. The LT may well become the orphan and a number of us may be back on Goldwings in a few years. Is BMW saving the best for last or are they waffling on their commitment to two-up, luxury roadbikes? Just to keep the fire fanned, it was mentioned that there is a possibility BMW will release the new LT as a 10th Anniversary special.
Six degrees of seperation. And the mole at BMW is KEVIN BACON!
 

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Prodigal Son
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Say it ain't so--

The LT may well become the orphan and a number of us may be --BACK ON GOLDWINGS-- in a few years. Is BMW saving the best for last or are they waffling on their commitment to two-up, luxury roadbikes?
 

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If they're monitoring the trade ins on the GT now, hopefully they'll monitor the trade ins FROM the GT in a year or so when people start to realize that it's fast and it's smooth, but it's not anywhere near as comfortable or relaxing as the LT.
Personally I'd like to see the new gen LT come in with the weight reduction focus of these newer models, but without the new K engine. It's buzzy, fizzy and too fast, none of which lend themselves to getting out with the misses and taking in the scenery.
Although I could see myself getting an S or a GT for those times when I want to take off alone and ride something more sporty, I wouldn't get rid of my LT precisely because it is so comfy, roomy and smooth - especially 2-up.
 

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sparkchaser1200 said:
I agree, except I really hate the idea of owning a Gold Wing.
I'll trade my current LT for the last model year LT and ride it forever!
just curious ... what is it you hate so much about the very idea? don't you like the idea of huge dealer networks and rock-solid reliability?

i prefer BMW handling and brakes, and i was put off by a problem with breaking aluminum gold wing frames. but now that the frame problems are solved, and with much better electronics integration (not to mention the lingering spectre of rear-end failure in the BMW), i find myself drawn to the wing.

the BMW "cache" means nothing to me.

are you listening, BMW?
 

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I'm buying everything that jeff has posted at face value.

I'm not, however, buying into the subsequent suggestions that BMW may be considering getting out of the L[and yach]T business.

Doesn't make any sense to me:

-- The current business plan is to maintain and expand into new market niches -- dropping the flagship touring bike would be inconsistent with this.

-- BMW already has a significant amount of coin invested, both in the now-significantly-along next-gen LT development, and in the new K12 drivetrain, which benefits from every source of sales volume to amortize development costs. BMW Motorrad doesn't have the sort of spare cash lying around to causally pitch out the window based on momentary shifts in sales mix.

-- There's a "pride" factor involved -- BMW set a whole new standard in the touring market in 1998, and I'd be surprised to see tham be willing to quietly walk from a top-end market that they have at various times been on (or at least sharing) the top of -- just a gut-feel, but I don't see them "conceding" market supremacy to Honda or HD if there's at least a break-even business plan for a new LT.

That's enough reasons for now. My guess (which is as good as what yer payin' for it :)): I still see a new LT in '09, introduced at the preceding Intermot.
 

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Prodigal Son
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It ain't the name

KBandit said:
just curious ... what is it you hate so much about the very idea? don't you like the idea of huge dealer networks and rock-solid reliability?

i prefer BMW handling and brakes, and i was put off by a problem with breaking aluminum gold wing frames. but now that the frame problems are solved, and with much better electronics integration (not to mention the lingering spectre of rear-end failure in the BMW), i find myself drawn to the wing.

the BMW "cache" means nothing to me.

are you listening, BMW?
Though I've only spent 1200 miles on an 05 ABS Wing an therefore am not an expert (But I do stay in Holiday Inns now and then)

IT AIN'T NO LT
Not in the brakes, not in the handling, etc
(and it is 2 early to tell if the frame problem is really gone for good)
However, what you said about DEALERS, overall reliability are spot on.
Also the TORQUE, oh baby. And get tires ANYWHERE almost ANY DAY.

Ditto--ARE YOU LISTENING BMW??
 

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Bouncer
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Discussion Starter #16
KBandit said:
i find myself drawn to the wing.
Gerhard,

Please don't wait. Run right out and get the wing right now.

BTW, you can find a whole new group of friends to annoy at www.gl1800.org
 

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eljeffe said:
As I told Greg on the other site, it's only 2009. It's not like it's never.

Hell, a simple letter writing campaign to BMW might actually stimulate their interest in moving it back to 2008.
You're right, Jeff, it just seems like forever :(

Honestly though, in another year, or two, my LT will be getting a bit "long in the tooth" and I was hoping the new version would be out by then. If it's '09, then so be it. I can wait. But I was focusing on the "discontinue" portion of the possible eventualities.

The point I would make, and will emphasize in a letter to BMW NA, is that solo BMW distance riders on an LT will stay with BMW (R-X, or K-X) regardless of whether the LT is available. The K-GT is a fantastic solo LD bike and an excellent alternative for those LT riders. However, I would also stress that two-up LD riders will not sacrifice comfort for the pillion.

If BMW drops the LT level of pillion pampering, and the K-GT is no LT in that department, then they will undoubtedly go elsewhere.

.


 

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eljeffe said:
Gerhard,

Please don't wait. Run right out and get the wing right now.

BTW, you can find a whole new group of friends to annoy at www.gl1800.org
Interesting that first link below the pic on their home page is to "GL1800 Service Bulletins" :think:
 

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To drop the LT based on current trade in figures would be a mind boggling act of stupidity on behalf of BMW's marketing department.

Yes, people are trading LTs for GTs, but only because to get the new power and handling that is the only game in BMW town. The GT is quite a bike, and I really enjoyed my little test ride on one, but it is NOT a REPLACEMENT for the LT.

I consider the GT a "tweener". A nice, fun sport tourer, a step up from the older K GT, but it is still not a full tourer, and certainly will not take many, if any, sales away from the Goldwing. Yes, it is taking sales away from the current model of the LT, but would it fare the same with a new upgraded model? I think not. When introduced, a new LT could probably move some GT owners back into the LT stable again.

I was fully expecting a really nice step up for the LT, raising the bar yet again for Honda as they did in '99. If BMW drops the LT, it would be a bit of a tragedy in my opinion.

We have heard from BMW people who attended CCRs in the past that this was by far the most organized, knowledgeable, and enthusiastic single model group of owners in the BMW stable bar none. Why would they abandon us?

I liked the GT a lot, but it is not a (hopefully) new LT.
 
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