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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all,

I am new to the forum as I just found it about a week or two ago. I just purchased a 2000 Canyon Red (I think that's the color) LT with 23,500 miles on it. I picked it up from a dealer in NJ but I live in NY. I have been riding it back and forth to work the past couple of weeks when weather has permitted and must say I love it.

I haven't owned a bike in 10 years and my last one was a Suzuki GSXR750. This is my first touring type bike and I am in heaven.

Well on to my problem I guess. I have been reading as you might expect and because of it have found an issue. Today when I went to fill the bike up the tank vented as I unscrewed the cap. I know I read something the other day about this not be right, so I am wondering what do I do now to diagnose the issue? I had put gas in it the first day I rode it to work (17 miles) a couple of weeks ago, but don't remember it venting then, but wasn't looking for it either so don't know for sure. I also had an issue getting the nozzle totally in on that first fill as I didn't have the angle correct so I spilled some on the bike when I first started to fill if that's important.

Any help on this would be great.

The second potential issue I am "sensing" is to do with the rear drive issues. I have a noise when driving around corners that I figured was the tires as the rear is fairly worn and what I would consider cupped as well, but now that I have read about the rear drive I am not sure if that might be the issue? Any help on how to check? I do hear a noise when I let off on the throttle even when upright, but not when accelerating upright. Could be paranoia or could be something I don't know so figured I would start tapping this wonderful resource here.

Looks like I better get a maintenance manual on order soon. I figured I have all Winter to get it, but weather has been decent, so I have been riding :)

Thanks in advance for any help or opinions.
 

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surfran said:
The second potential issue I am "sensing" is to do with the rear drive issues. I have a noise when driving around corners that I figured was the tires as the rear is fairly worn and what I would consider cupped as well, but now that I have read about the rear drive I am not sure if that might be the issue? Any help on how to check? I do hear a noise when I let off on the throttle even when upright, but not when accelerating upright. Could be paranoia or could be something I don't know so figured I would start tapping this wonderful resource here.
The most likely cause of the noise while cornering is cupped tires. Get them replaced and you should be happy:)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for the link, it looks like I need to check the cannister line first then possibly pull the fairings off. I assume I need the book to do this as I have no idea how it comes apart since I just got it.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I am hoping it is that, but wasn't sure when I thought I was hearing noises during the decel.
 

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surfran said:
Hello all,

I am new to the forum as I just found it about a week or two ago. I just purchased a 2000 Canyon Red (I think that's the color) LT with 23,500 miles on it. I picked it up from a dealer in NJ but I live in NY. I have been riding it back and forth to work the past couple of weeks when weather has permitted and must say I love it.

I haven't owned a bike in 10 years and my last one was a Suzuki GSXR750. This is my first touring type bike and I am in heaven.

Well on to my problem I guess. I have been reading as you might expect and because of it have found an issue. Today when I went to fill the bike up the tank vented as I unscrewed the cap. I know I read something the other day about this not be right, so I am wondering what do I do now to diagnose the issue? I had put gas in it the first day I rode it to work (17 miles) a couple of weeks ago, but don't remember it venting then, but wasn't looking for it either so don't know for sure. I also had an issue getting the nozzle totally in on that first fill as I didn't have the angle correct so I spilled some on the bike when I first started to fill if that's important.

Any help on this would be great.

The second potential issue I am "sensing" is to do with the rear drive issues. I have a noise when driving around corners that I figured was the tires as the rear is fairly worn and what I would consider cupped as well, but now that I have read about the rear drive I am not sure if that might be the issue? Any help on how to check? I do hear a noise when I let off on the throttle even when upright, but not when accelerating upright. Could be paranoia or could be something I don't know so figured I would start tapping this wonderful resource here.

Looks like I better get a maintenance manual on order soon. I figured I have all Winter to get it, but weather has been decent, so I have been riding :)

Thanks in advance for any help or opinions.
First, don't sweat the final drive -- worn tire? cupped? Gar-un-tee it's the tire. If the noise goes away when vertical, you know for sure.

As to the charcoal canister issue, there are a couple things to do. You'll want to isolate the problem. The vent hose for the tank goes from the roll-over valve at the top right front of the tank, down to the right tip-over wing, then back toward the rear of the bike. The hose goes up at the rear subframe to the canister, which is under the trunk. The tank vents through the hose and the canister to atmosphere.

The question is where the block is. It could be in the hose between the tank and the canister, or the canister may be filled with fuel (more likely). Probably the easist way to check is to remove the trunk and the plastic panel underneath, then:

Pull the hose that goes up the *right* side of the bike (to the tank) off the canister, loosen the gas cap, and blow through the hose. If the line is open, you should hear air flowing into the tank.

Put the hose back on the canister, then separate the same hose at the connector just upstream, so that you can blow into the canister to see whether air flows through the canister and out the atmospheric vent under the rear end.

Let us know what you find, and we can help you with dealing with whatever the issue is.
 

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Number ONE: Perform the cannisterectomy, and you'll be all set.

Number TWO: Either replace those Metzelers with new ones, or try the Avons, or . . . just get used to "the growl" and that'll solve that issue. ;)

Welcome to the site. Don't be a stranger. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for the reply's everyone. I will hopefully get a chance tomorrow to check it out. I will let you know what I find out.

Yeah the bike has metzlers on it. I have been reading a couple of the threads on the tires in anticipation of replacing it in the Spring. Figure I better soak up the info all Winter so I am ready in the Spring.
 

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If your tires are warring more on the outside instead of the center, you can increase the tire pressure.

Bob
 

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surfran said:
I am hoping it is that, but wasn't sure when I thought I was hearing noises during the decel.
Could also be the infamous K-whine.

The primary gears are straight-cut and fit via a color-code to get the backlash within spec so thye can expand and contract with temp. So they're a bit noisy and whine and chatter when there's little load. Nothing to worry about. Can make a real racket at idle cold. Some K-bikes' primaries are noisier, some quieter, but the noise seems to be the only problem, no real danger, the straight-cut set is more efficient and strong.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
The tire wear is in the center, but when I run my hand down the sides just off that wear line, I can feel the differneces in height big time so that is why I originally just figured tire noise. Of course then when I start reading on hear about rear drive issues my mind races and wonders.......you know how that goes :confused:
 

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tires

I run the metzlers and there is a definite tire growl in curves.....it doesnt matter if the tires are new or not......just run 42 in the front and 48 in the back and get use to the growl.....

change ur rear drive oil and look at the plug for metal....there is a magnet in the center of the plug......if there is no metal put new oil in and while its up rotate the wheel and see that if feels ok.....truth is....it would probably feel fine anyway with no load on it but all of that action will give you more confidence in it.....if you dont see any metal and it feels ok you are probably ok......i put the Moibil 1 synthetic in mine.....

for overall maintenance get a set of Paul Sayegh's maintenace tapes....they are great and will show u how to get into everything and what to do....its a great supplement to the manual and sometimes it just instills alot more confidence to see someone actually do it......email Paul at [email protected].

between those tapes, the manual, and this site you can deal with about anything that comes up on an LT.

the LT makes some quirky noises....and it growls and sometimes the gears clunk a little......but...its still the best bike on the road :)

welcome to LT land :)

kip
99 LT
jefferson, ga
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I have already put the 42/48 in the tires as they were both low when I first got it. I have also spun the tire trying to put some side load on it by pushing and don't notice any grinding other than some brake pad scraping.

I figure I will do the oil change soon and see what that shows. That will probably bring the most piece of mind at this point. Not knowing what the sounds should be since this is my first LT makes it tough to compare.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I have taken the seat off and the rear trunk off. Check the lines and it's fine going to the tank. So I checked the line going back to the cannister and it was plugged. Before doing the cannisterectomy, I decided to look for the vent end of the hose near the rear. When I looked up under I saw where the tire had rubbed the hose nearly in half. I cut the hose above the area and blew through the cannister without a problem. I am off to get more hose and debating on whether to remove the cannister or not. I typically like to leave things the way they were designed, but with so many reported problems I am thinking maybe I should remove since I have it all apart. Is there any way to determine if the cannister is ok?


Other hesitation I am having is when I read about doing the cannisterectomy, I was not clear on the re-routing the house piece. To do this do I have to remove the front fairing?

Also I assume to check and see if my tank it damaged I will have to remove the front fairings. If so does anyone have a quick and dirty start from here kind of list as I don't have a work shop manual yet.

Thanks again for the help, because of all your help I was able to find the problem on this one and hopefully any other issues that arise.
 

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surfran said:
I have taken the seat off and the rear trunk off. Check the lines and it's fine going to the tank. So I checked the line going back to the cannister and it was plugged. Before doing the cannisterectomy, I decided to look for the vent end of the hose near the rear. When I looked up under I saw where the tire had rubbed the hose nearly in half. I cut the hose above the area and blew through the cannister without a problem.
Huh??? Cutting off the hose should not have fixed the venting issue if the hose was open to atmosphere at the rub-through spot -- or am I misinterpreting your statement? Was the hose *not* worn through enough to puncture it? If that's the case, and there was a blockage downstream (toward the free end) of the hose, then the symptoms fit. In any event, I'd blow through the cut-off part and confirm that it was in fact blocked (don't be surprised if it is -- we had one member with an insect nest up the vent hose!)

surfran said:
I am off to get more hose and debating on whether to remove the cannister or not. I typically like to leave things the way they were designed, but with so many reported problems I am thinking maybe I should remove since I have it all apart. Is there any way to determine if the cannister is ok?
I tend to be fairly conservative about changing what BMW has done, because they usually have a very good reason for doing it (even if it was an engineering choice I wouldn't have made). For canisters, though, BMW is responding to environmental mandates, not design improvement reasons, and there have been *far* too many avoidable problems with these things for me to even hesititate in removing it. I've lost count of how many I've removed from my own BMWs and from other LTer's bikes, all with no ill effect.


surfran said:
Other hesitation I am having is when I read about doing the cannisterectomy, I was not clear on the re-routing the house piece. To do this do I have to remove the front fairing?
It is much easier to do with the right upper side panel removed. The key is to reroute the tank hose so that there are no high spots in the line -- I prefer to simply run it directly alongside the other tank hose (the overflow bib drain), along the tip over bar, to the area down behind the right swingarm pivot, then cut off the excess hose. Routing the hose behind the frame to leg by the tranny is a pita (not much room to work), but it's nothing that you can't do with a bit of patience. Separately -- don't forget to plug the hose running from the canister up the left side of the bike -- that hose leads to the intakes (where the recovered gas fumes go to be burned), and leaving the hose open creates a vacuum leak.

surfran said:
Also I assume to check and see if my tank it damaged I will have to remove the front fairings. If so does anyone have a quick and dirty start from here kind of list as I don't have a work shop manual yet.
I would not worry about the tank, as the plastic is pretty robust -- it is only very rarely damaged by a full collapse. The thing you need to worry about is whether the fuel level sensor's float tube has been dented -- the dent will prevent the float from going lower than 1/4 tank -- which most folks first notice when they run out of gas despite the gauge showing 1/4 tank! :) Personally, I wouldn't pull panels and the level sensor just to check for this -- I'd ride the bike with a close eye on mileage/gas use to see whether the gauge continues to go down to empty -- if so, no worries; if it sticks at 1/4, then you have a reason to pull the bike apart.

HTH,
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Mark,

I guess I wasn't as clear as I could have been. Was trying to hurry to get the post in so I could go get some hose while hopefully someone replied (thanks for replying by the way). The hose was worn down to about 1/2 of it. In other words one wall was worn away by the tire with the other still in tack. This left an oval hole in the hose. The end upstream (toward cannister) was plugged with rubber hose debris from the rubbing. I assume it kinda melted up into it.

In any event, I cut it above this (closer to the cannister) then blew through the hose on the others side of the cannister and could actually get it to flow through this time. Before this it was plugged. So it appears the cannister is ok and this is the only problem.

I guess I will go ahead and take the cannister out and see about re-routing.

Any tips on removing the right side? or is it going to be obvious when I go out to take a look?
 

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surfran said:
Any tips on removing the right side? or is it going to be obvious when I go out to take a look?
Tips? Yeah -- it will go faster if there's another Lter around to show you the first time :)

Absent that option, here ya go (from memory, so beware :)):

[[[Edit: This is for pre-'05s. '05-on first requires removal of two phillips screws to free the under-wing ground lights, and disconnecting the lights from their two wires. The wires can be connected to either terminal, so no need to keep track of polarity. ]]]

1. Remove black tip-over wing cover (two 3mm Allen screws under the wing (replace these with T25 torx screws and never deal with the annoying allens again).

2. Remove the tip-over wing trim (three T25 screws, 2 below, one at rear; when pulling the trim off, press down at front edge to remove top plastic tab from under upper panel lower edge -- this tab is often broken by first timers, but if so no sweat -- it's not really needed).

3. Pop mirror off.

4. Remove under mirror vent wing (3 T25's).

5. Open oddments compartment; remove two 3 mm Allens securing top of small center panel in front of seat. Slide panel *down* (toward seat) 1/2 inch to clear fragile hook tabs under the center of the panel; lift clear.

6. Remove No. 2 Phillips from turn signal lens; rotate/remove bulb socket and shove bulb back through hole in fairing.

7. Remove T25 screws about periphery of the panel:
- 2 in turn signal recess
- 1 under mirror mount
- 3 along bottom of panel/tip-over wing (not the 3 holding the lower panel on!)
- 1 inside/next to the oddments compartment
- 1 below the oddments compartment (was under the small center panel)
- 1 under the seat (ties together the upper side panel and the panel between the upper panel and the saddlebag (the "battery cover"))

8. Reach under the bottom rear corner of the upper panel, feel for the base of the metal mushroom-head stud that sits in a rubber grommet in the side of the bike, and gently pull the stud out of the grommet (note, don't just pull on the edge of the panel -- get your fingers in far enough to find the base of the stud and pull steadily straight out from there).

9. Grasp the rear upper edge of the panel and *lift forward **and** up* -- the top rear edge of the panel has a several-inch-long, downward-facing vertical ridge which sits in a corresponding groove in the center radio stingray (the groove starts at the oddments compartment and runs forward). The panel must be lifted up from this groove before it can be pulled outward away from the bike. The panel usually sort of "pops" free when it clear the gorrve, so be prepared to stop quickly.

10. Once clear of the groove, extract the panel outward slowly -- the panel has an inner shelf in front of the radiator, and if you pull the panel out sidewats and/or fast, the shelf rakes across the front of the radiator, bending the fins.

Have fun!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Mark,

Great description and it worked like a charm. Thanks for the heads up on the ones behind the turning light and the cover under the oddments.

Consider mine another cannisterectomless or whatever you call it.

I must say BMW has done a nice job of putting the package together. Now that I have done it once, I think it will be easy for future needs. And of course now that I have one fix under my belt, I have more confidence to possibly tackle other needs as well.

Thanks again to all who offered advice.
 

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BTW, Believe everything Mark Neblett tells you about the LT. He knows everthing. He is an LT god.
Have a great time with the new ride. Has farkle fever hit yet??
 

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docwagner said:
BTW, Believe everything Mark Neblett tells you about the LT.
Thanks, but I believe the correct statement is "QUESTION everything Mark Neblett tells you about the LT" -- been wrong before; gar-un-teed I'll be wrong again ;)
 
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