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Discussion Starter #1
I'm in the throws of overhauling several items, one being the original main seal, contaminated clutch, slave etc. I filled him up with fluids last night and today noticed some oil had dripped from the new weep hole in the clutch housing. Depressed, I fired him up anyway while on the stand. There was some howling going on but it died down as he warmed up for about 2 minutes. Now he's really leaking. Just thought I would confirm the obvious. Guess I have to tear it down and start over, right? :(
 

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I think that after that, the hangover would be pretty bad. Then I would have to recover before starting over on a big job like that. That just sucks!
 

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My sympathies brother! :(

I did mine in March....a total of 27 hours of work...I took my time and we did 14 hrs of it as part of a tech session.

I also had a bad Clutch Slave Cylinder and replaced that while I was in Belle's guts.....it was leaking into the clutch housing as well. Took the time to do the weep holes in the clutch bell housing and slave cylinder too.....so far so good.

I decided to keep the nut that was closest to the main seal and wire it right next to my good-luck bell just to display I've been that deep into the bike....kind of a trophy for me! Hopefully you don't have to hang two of 'em!

Take a well deserved brake, wait for the parts to come in, and take your time. I used the Clymer's manual and replaced everything it said was a "one time use" item.

Good luck! :bmw:
 

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Hairpin said:
I'm in the throws of overhauling several items, one being the original main seal, contaminated clutch, slave etc. I filled him up with fluids last night and today noticed some oil had dripped from the new weep hole in the clutch housing. Depressed, I fired him up anyway while on the stand. There was some howling going on but it died down as he warmed up for about 2 minutes. Now he's really leaking. Just thought I would confirm the obvious. Guess I have to tear it down and start over, right? :(
Not trying to add insult to injury but you did intall the new O-ring on the main shaft? That missing will really let oil flow out.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
jzeiler said:
Not trying to add insult to injury but you did intall the new O-ring on the main shaft? That missing will really let oil flow out.
Luther's been on the stand for 2 months waiting for various parts, shocks rebuilt, etc., and the clutch/main seal was one of the first things I did. But if fuzzy memory serves me right, there was some issue with the new o-ring, like somehow it wasn't set where it should have been, maybe too deep?

Anyway, it sounds like you are knowledgable, possibly experienced a similar mishap? Can you explain how the main seal and o-ring work? Specifically, if the o-ring stops oil from entering the clutch housing, what does the main seal do? Sorry to ask what to many is obvious, but it's nice to know how things work. Manuals tell us what to do, but rarely why. Thanks in advance.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Adding insult to injury, can't get the right siding bearing journal loose on the swing arm. I've used a hand impact driver (actually split a Craftsmen socket in the process), an admittedly wimpy air gun, all to no avail. Can't use heat in this area. Thoughts? I'm concerned about damaging the bearing or worse, the swing arm itself.
 

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Hairpin said:
Luther's been on the stand for 2 months waiting for various parts, shocks rebuilt, etc., and the clutch/main seal was one of the first things I did. But if fuzzy memory serves me right, there was some issue with the new o-ring, like somehow it wasn't set where it should have been, maybe too deep?

Anyway, it sounds like you are knowledgable, possibly experienced a similar mishap? Can you explain how the main seal and o-ring work? Specifically, if the o-ring stops oil from entering the clutch housing, what does the main seal do? Sorry to ask what to many is obvious, but it's nice to know how things work. Manuals tell us what to do, but rarely why. Thanks in advance.
I have been in there so to speak. The main seal covers resides in the rear of the engine and seals the oil path on the outer part of the clutch housing shaft and the O-ring goes on the shaft inside the clutch housing. It functions to keep any oil that makes its way into the splines from getting to the clutch. The o-ring goes on followed by the washer that was flat on one side and had a raised bead on the other side. The raised bead goes toward the o-ring and the nut faces the flat side. Fairly high torque 140 Nm initial then loosen and set 50 Nm followed by 60 degrees of rotation.

On the swing arm issue I take it the 14mm pin is what is giving you grief. If so and you have the other one out aready, grab the drive shaft with a large vice grip and pull it out. You can then remove the swing arm with that one pin still installed. Once out in the open you have more options to remove it. (Been there and done that as well).
 

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Discussion Starter #8
jzeiler said:
I have been in there so to speak. The main seal covers resides in the rear of the engine and seals the oil path on the outer part of the clutch housing shaft and the O-ring goes on the shaft inside the clutch housing. It functions to keep any oil that makes its way into the splines from getting to the clutch. The o-ring goes on followed by the washer that was flat on one side and had a raised bead on the other side. The raised bead goes toward the o-ring and the nut faces the flat side. Fairly high torque 140 Nm initial then loosen and set 50 Nm followed by 60 degrees of rotation.

On the swing arm issue I take it the 14mm pin is what is giving you grief. If so and you have the other one out aready, grab the drive shaft with a large vice grip and pull it out. You can then remove the swing arm with that one pin still installed. Once out in the open you have more options to remove it. (Been there and done that as well).
John, You are a prince. Thank you for the MS-oring explanation. I'll give the swing arm extraction a go after work today. Stay tuned.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
jzeiler said:
I have been in there so to speak. The main seal covers resides in the rear of the engine and seals the oil path on the outer part of the clutch housing shaft and the O-ring goes on the shaft inside the clutch housing. It functions to keep any oil that makes its way into the splines from getting to the clutch. The o-ring goes on followed by the washer that was flat on one side and had a raised bead on the other side. The raised bead goes toward the o-ring and the nut faces the flat side. Fairly high torque 140 Nm initial then loosen and set 50 Nm followed by 60 degrees of rotation.

On the swing arm issue I take it the 14mm pin is what is giving you grief. If so and you have the other one out aready, grab the drive shaft with a large vice grip and pull it out. You can then remove the swing arm with that one pin still installed. Once out in the open you have more options to remove it. (Been there and done that as well).
Well J, I removed the left side journal and drive shaft and have attempted to get the right side 14mm head to go through the bearing. Because the cross-member needs to be cocked a bit to clear the left side frame, the 14mm hex head binds at the right side bearing. With each blow, the one side of the bearing hits the inside shoulder at the frame and causes the hex head to bind tighter and tighter. I can get it loosened up again by using a socket to re-square the bearing. So I ask you, is the idea to blast the smithereens out of it to push it through, or am I missing something, a technique that is perhaps less destructive?

Your response will be greatly appreciated, as I've just about used up my favors at the dealer shop. Thanks! :confused:
 

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Go down to a hardware store and buy a set of easy-outs...you know, the ones with TEETH. The A&S techs say that they end up replacing lots of those darn things. Most BMW shops stock them. A regular or even impact socket will simply round off the journal end.

Good Luck!
 

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Hairpin said:
Well J, I removed the left side journal and drive shaft and have attempted to get the right side 14mm head to go through the bearing. Because the cross-member needs to be cocked a bit to clear the left side frame, the 14mm hex head binds at the right side bearing. With each blow, the one side of the bearing hits the inside shoulder at the frame and causes the hex head to bind tighter and tighter. I can get it loosened up again by using a socket to re-square the bearing. So I ask you, is the idea to blast the smithereens out of it to push it through, or am I missing something, a technique that is perhaps less destructive?

Your response will be greatly appreciated, as I've just about used up my favors at the dealer shop. Thanks! :confused:
I thought you had both of the 30mm bearings out and were struggling with the pivot pins. Sorry my advice only works if those are out. You should be able to find a heavy duty 30mm socket ,at any auto parts store now for front end work (I got one at O'Rielly), and use a good breaker bar with a 4 foot pipe to get those broken free
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
jzeiler said:
I thought you had both of the 30mm bearings out and were struggling with the pivot pins. Sorry my advice only works if those are out. You should be able to find a heavy duty 30mm socket ,at any auto parts store now for front end work (I got one at O'Rielly), and use a good breaker bar with a 4 foot pipe to get those broken free
Hey John, I got both the 30mm "caps" off. The right side bearing did not come off with it. It is stuck on the shaft of the 14mm hex head and post. I'm sure you know what I mean, but I'll put up a picture when I get home.
 

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Dang Bill that's a new one. I would use a drift and tap the bearing fully back on to the pivot pin. It should clear the "nut" on the end. Then use some sand paper or crocus cloth to de-burr the pivot as it looks like the last time you pulled them the 14mm points got a little buggered and they are preventing the bearing from sliding off. That should allow the bearing to then slip off.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
jzeiler said:
Dang Bill that's a new one. I would use a drift and tap the bearing fully back on to the pivot pin. It should clear the "nut" on the end. Then use some sand paper or crocus cloth to de-burr the pivot as it looks like the last time you pulled them the 14mm points got a little buggered and they are preventing the bearing from sliding off. That should allow the bearing to then slip off.
John, That's just what I woke thinkin' this morning. I'll give it a go later today. Wish me luck. :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Hairpin said:
John, That's just what I woke thinkin' this morning. I'll give it a go later today. Wish me luck. :eek:
John, It seems I mushroomed the shaft below the hex head of that thing by using my hand impact driver. Too many whacks made it impossible to take enough meat off to remove the bearing, so I adapted my improvised MS bearing removal slide hammer and got it off. I sacrificed the bearing, but at least now have the swing arm out of the way and continued disassembly . Sure enough, the MS was torn up at the shaft. I will be super cautious getting the replacement seated properly. O-ring looked fine, but will be replaced as well. Thanks for your counsel on this. Hope to put this all back together today...if the dealer has all the parts. Heading there this AM. Stay tuned.
 

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Hairpin said:
Sure enough, the MS was torn up at the shaft. I will be super cautious getting the replacement seated properly.
What do you think went wrong on assembly and what are you going to do different? How did you install it the first time?

I'm still putting mine back together. My swing arm is being a pain going on, but nothing like what you're going through. (Glad you were able to get past that BTW.) Looking for things to look out for.

Thanks,
 

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Discussion Starter #17
dglenn1 said:
What do you think went wrong on assembly and what are you going to do different? How did you install it the first time?

I'm still putting mine back together. My swing arm is being a pain going on, but nothing like what you're going through. (Glad you were able to get past that BTW.) Looking for things to look out for.

Thanks,
I messed up badly seating the main seal properly. I thought I was being careful, but obviously not careful enough. When I got it part way in, it appeared cocked a bit, so another whack straightened it, but also set it too deep I believe. This time I will use the prescribed method, a 1" galvanized pipe, about 8" long and a flor flange. Hoping that it goes in straight and not too deep this time. Will have to wait til parts are at the dealer tomorrow. More to follow.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Call me crazy, but...

When looking the main seal, the clutch housing, and the output shaft, I'm thinkin' what would be wrong with sliding the main seal onto the clutch housing shaft, sliding the housing onto the output shaft and hitting housing a few times buffered by a wood block to partially seat the main seal. It seems that it would insure that the seal goes into the hole perfectly square. I could then slide the housing off the output shaft, and finish seating the seal with herein described homer tool of pipe and flange. This approach seems too simple. Must be something wrong. Tell me your thoughts. Thanks!
 

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Hairpin said:
I messed up badly seating the main seal properly. I thought I was being careful, but obviously not careful enough. When I got it part way in, it appeared cocked a bit, so another whack straightened it, but also set it too deep I believe. This time I will use the prescribed method, a 1" galvanized pipe, about 8" long and a flor flange. Hoping that it goes in straight and not too deep this time. Will have to wait til parts are at the dealer tomorrow. More to follow.
I used the same method and I know its not "perfectly" flat but it's really close and certainly flush. I ruined the first one by getting it too cocked. It's amazing how easy it is to put it in too deep and so crooked with a flat flange. Did you lube the surface when you installed the housing/shaft? What did the failure look like? Was the seal stuck to the shaft? It should be somewhat tolerant to a minor bit of skew.

Thanks,
 

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Hairpin said:
Call me crazy, but...

When looking the main seal, the clutch housing, and the output shaft, I'm thinkin' what would be wrong with sliding the main seal onto the clutch housing shaft, sliding the housing onto the output shaft and hitting housing a few times buffered by a wood block to partially seat the main seal. It seems that it would insure that the seal goes into the hole perfectly square. I could then slide the housing off the output shaft, and finish seating the seal with herein described homer tool of pipe and flange. This approach seems too simple. Must be something wrong. Tell me your thoughts. Thanks!
The housing would have to contact the seal at the outermost diameter or it would cause it to dish when you pounded it in. Its been too long since I've seen mine so I can't say for sure how it would work. I don't remember the housing being able to slide on deep enough to seat the seal either.
 
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