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OK, so I have replaced my brake lines with new spiegler lines and put on new pads. I even went out and bought a new mighty vac to make bleeding easier. I got the front pedal about where I like it, but am having trouble with getting the back to work at all. I have rechecked to make sure nothing is crimped, and nothing is leaking. I have tried bleeding at the ABS unit and get nothing. Pull a vacuum using the mighty vac and vacuum level doesn't drop, and I get no fluid. (Yes the bleeder is open). The fluid level isn't dropping in the reservoir, and so nothing getting to the caliper. Had rear brake before the change...Suggestions Gents?
 

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OK, so I have replaced my brake lines with new spiegler lines and put on new pads. I even went out and bought a new mighty vac to make bleeding easier. I got the front pedal about where I like it, but am having trouble with getting the back to work at all. I have rechecked to make sure nothing is crimped, and nothing is leaking. I have tried bleeding at the ABS unit and get nothing. Pull a vacuum using the mighty vac and vacuum level doesn't drop, and I get no fluid. (Yes the bleeder is open). The fluid level isn't dropping in the reservoir, and so nothing getting to the caliper. Had rear brake before the change...Suggestions Gents?
I don't see a signature so don't know what year bike you have and thus which ABS system. I also don't understand front and rear pedal. There is a front lever and rear pedal, but not sure what you mean by front pedal. And the Mity Vac is all but useless for brake bleeding. You don't want to use vacuum and the bottle that came with my Mity Vac was too wimpy to pressure bleed.
 

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I don't see a signature so don't know what year bike you have and thus which ABS system. I also don't understand front and rear pedal. There is a front lever and rear pedal, but not sure what you mean by front pedal. And the Mity Vac is all but useless for brake bleeding. You don't want to use vacuum and the bottle that came with my Mity Vac was too wimpy to pressure bleed.
Matt,

Based on his 1st intro post here (October 2015) he has a 2001 K1200LT.

Assuming he bought a used K1200LT having USA specs (and not imported from Canada, Europe), THEN it would have simpler ABS2 without servos. This simpler ABS system can be bleed using vacuum although it is NOT required to achieve proper job. Old-fashioned bleeding using manual lever/pedal pumping will do just fine.

For later IABS with servos models (2002-2009 for USA), usage of vacuum pump is prohibited based on BMW service manual (there is some risk...)
 

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OK, so I have replaced my brake lines with new spiegler lines and put on new pads. I even went out and bought a new mighty vac to make bleeding easier. I got the front pedal about where I like it, but am having trouble with getting the back to work at all. I have rechecked to make sure nothing is crimped, and nothing is leaking. I have tried bleeding at the ABS unit and get nothing. Pull a vacuum using the mighty vac and vacuum level doesn't drop, and I get no fluid. (Yes the bleeder is open). The fluid level isn't dropping in the reservoir, and so nothing getting to the caliper. Had rear brake before the change...Suggestions Gents?

Steve,
I am assuming you have a 2001 with front calipers marked "Brembo" - this is ABS2 system without servos.

To get better help, you will need to be more specific about these items:
(1) did you fill fluid container on right side (see RED arrow in attached photo)?

(2) can you be more specific how soft/hard is the rear pedal when all bleeder are closed?

(3) are you sure you have connected new hose properly where it attached to rear master-cylinder (behind chrome plate)

(4) make sure there is no leak at this specific hose attached to rear master-cylinder (behind chrome plate)

In some difficult case when many hoses are empty/dry, you may get better success by push bleeding (reverse method) using a seringe from the rear Caliper bleeder(s). You are in fact pushing fluid from rear caliper onto the round fluid reservoir (all the way thru). Make sure round reservoir cap is open and no hoses are blocked anywhere. Also, if you push-bleed, make sure the pedal is fully released so that the master-cylinder piston has no pressure while you push bleed (otherwise passage is blocked).

In addition to above sugegstions, you may want to watch the following tutorial video in 2nd part where he does the rear brakes hoses (beginning at 34 minutes out of 54 minutes total):
https://www.illinoisbmwriders.com/service/instructional-videos/15-k-bikes/96-bmw-k1200lt-diy-spiegler-brake-lines-replacement
 

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Discussion Starter #5
OK, so I have replaced my brake lines with new spiegler lines and put on new pads. I even went out and bought a new mighty vac to make bleeding easier. I got the front pedal about where I like it, but am having trouble with getting the back to work at all. I have rechecked to make sure nothing is crimped, and nothing is leaking. I have tried bleeding at the ABS unit and get nothing. Pull a vacuum using the mighty vac and vacuum level doesn't drop, and I get no fluid. (Yes the bleeder is open). The fluid level isn't dropping in the reservoir, and so nothing getting to the caliper. Had rear brake before the change...Suggestions Gents?
I don't see a signature so don't know what year bike you have and thus which ABS system. I also don't understand front and rear pedal. There is a front lever and rear pedal, but not sure what you mean by front pedal. And the Mity Vac is all but useless for brake bleeding. You don't want to use vacuum and the bottle that came with my Mity Vac was too wimpy to pressure bleed.
My apologies, this is a 2001 k1200lt. And yes I did mean front lever not front pedal.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
OK, so I have replaced my brake lines with new spiegler lines and put on new pads. I even went out and bought a new mighty vac to make bleeding easier. I got the front pedal about where I like it, but am having trouble with getting the back to work at all. I have rechecked to make sure nothing is crimped, and nothing is leaking. I have tried bleeding at the ABS unit and get nothing. Pull a vacuum using the mighty vac and vacuum level doesn't drop, and I get no fluid. (Yes the bleeder is open). The fluid level isn't dropping in the reservoir, and so nothing getting to the caliper. Had rear brake before the change...Suggestions Gents?

Steve,
I am assuming you have a 2001 with front calipers marked "Brembo" - this is ABS2 system without servos.

To get better help, you will need to be more specific about these items:
(1) did you fill fluid container on right side (see RED arrow in attached photo)?

(2) can you be more specific how soft/hard is the rear pedal when all bleeder are closed?

(3) are you sure you have connected new hose properly where it attached to rear master-cylinder (behind chrome plate)

(4) make sure there is no leak at this specific hose attached to rear master-cylinder (behind chrome plate)

In some difficult case when many hoses are empty/dry, you may get better success by push bleeding (reverse method) using a seringe from the rear Caliper bleeder(s). You are in fact pushing fluid from rear caliper onto the round fluid reservoir (all the way thru). Make sure round reservoir cap is open and no hoses are blocked anywhere. Also, if you push-bleed, make sure the pedal is fully released so that the master-cylinder piston has no pressure while you push bleed (otherwise passage is blocked).

In addition to above sugegstions, you may want to watch the following tutorial video in 2nd part where he does the rear brakes hoses (beginning at 34 minutes out of 54 minutes total):
https://www.illinoisbmwriders.com/service/instructional-videos/15-k-bikes/96-bmw-k1200lt-diy-spiegler-brake-lines-replacement
Thank you. This is helpful. Yes I have the early version with Brembo brake calipers.

To answer your questions, yes I filled the rear reservoir to max level with DOT 4 fluid with the cap off so as to be able to refill with fluid as needed. I believe I have the lines correctly routed as I used Kirk's video as reference and things seem to fit nicely. I torqued everything down to specs and the rear brake pedal is very hard to move. I even tried adjusting the pushrod down to allow more travel thinking the master cylinder may not be refilling completely.

Thanks again. I may try the push bleeding if I continue to have difficulties. I just don't understand, I had rear brakes before and can't see where anything I did replacing the lines would have caused such an issue.
 

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My apologies, this is a 2001 k1200lt. And yes I did mean front lever not front pedal.
I am not familiar with that year as my 07 has the iABS version. I think at least the reservoir location is different. Mine has has the separate reservoir up under the seat.

My rear brake control circuit was a bear to bleed. I started by filling the reservoir and working the pedal in short fast strokes. This sent a lot of bubbles up into the reservoir and gave the pedal a little feel. I spent at least 30 minutes getting ever smaller bubbles before I finally called it good enough on the reservoir side.

I then began the rotation through the three ports on the ABS body. This took several hours over the course of at least two days. I think I ran half a quart of fluid through th rear control circuit be for the bubbles finally stopped. Even then the GS-911 bled test barely passed. The wheel circuit was an easy bleed.

I would not use vacuum as it is too easy to pull air on around the bleed port threads. Almost nobody recommends vacuum bleed in these days. Pressure bleeding is great if you have the equipment. I don't so I just used the old fashioned way (depress pedal, crack bleed valve, watch bubbles come out, close bleed valve, release pedal, check reservoir level, repeat until your fingers bleed). :smile:

Hopefully, someone familiar with your 2001 can give you more precise advice.

P.S. It is very helpful to use a signature with your model year and optional equipment that may be relevant to any questions you may ask.
 

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Thank you. This is helpful. Yes I have the early version with Brembo brake calipers.

To answer your questions, yes I filled the rear reservoir to max level with DOT 4 fluid with the cap off so as to be able to refill with fluid as needed. I believe I have the lines correctly routed as I used Kirk's video as reference and things seem to fit nicely. I torqued everything down to specs and the rear brake pedal is very hard to move. I even tried adjusting the pushrod down to allow more travel thinking the master cylinder may not be refilling completely.

Thanks again. I may try the push bleeding if I continue to have difficulties. I just don't understand, I had rear brakes before and can't see where anything I did replacing the lines would have caused such an issue.
Can you tell if the "hard to move" is the pedal itself binding mechanically, say on the pivot point or is it a hydraulic issue like a line blockage? I would remove the footrest and see if the lever and pushrod are assembled correctly. I also had to spend some time figuring out how the brake light switch went back into place as it wasn't immediately obvious. Fortunately, I found a picture somewhere that gave me enough guidance. I would sort out the binding pedal before I spent more time trying to bleed. My pedal moved very easily at the start of the bleeding process. Your hard to move brake pedal has me concerned that something more fundamental is wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thank you. This is helpful. Yes I have the early version with Brembo brake calipers.

To answer your questions, yes I filled the rear reservoir to max level with DOT 4 fluid with the cap off so as to be able to refill with fluid as needed. I believe I have the lines correctly routed as I used Kirk's video as reference and things seem to fit nicely. I torqued everything down to specs and the rear brake pedal is very hard to move. I even tried adjusting the pushrod down to allow more travel thinking the master cylinder may not be refilling completely.

Thanks again. I may try the push bleeding if I continue to have difficulties. I just don't understand, I had rear brakes before and can't see where anything I did replacing the lines would have caused such an issue.
Can you tell if the "hard to move" is the pedal itself binding mechanically, say on the pivot point or is it a hydraulic issue like a line blockage? I would remove the footrest and see if the lever and pushrod are assembled correctly. I also had to spend some time figuring out how the brake light switch went back into place as it wasn't immediately obvious. Fortunately, I found a picture somewhere that gave me enough guidance. I would sort out the binding pedal before I spent more time trying to bleed. My pedal moved very easily at the start of the bleeding process. Your hard to move brake pedal has me concerned that something more fundamental is wrong.
So I removed the footrest (again) and readjusted the pushrod. Pedal feels better. Removed the banjo bolt on the end of the brake line that attaches to the hard steel line going to the ABS unit. Worked the pedal and no fluid came out and no bubbles in the reservoir. Don't know if this is normal but as soon as I crack the banjo bolt on top of the master cylinder I get fluid. Could there be a blockage if some sort in the new braided line? Again this is the line coming from the rear master cylinder to the hard line going to the ABS unit.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Also I have the pushrod totally disconnected from the rear pedal now but can only move the master cylinder plunger about a 1/4 inch
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
So I released the pressure from the master cylinder by loosening the banjo bolt at the top of the master cylinder. Plenty of play now and moving freely. Used mity vac to test for blockage in hard line. Sucked air with ease. Hooked everything back up. Repeated bleeding procedure, but still no fluid getting to ABS unit. Still plenty of pedal travel, but doesn't seem to pump up. I'm stumped.
 

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So I released the pressure from the master cylinder by loosening the banjo bolt at the top of the master cylinder. Plenty of play now and moving freely. Used mity vac to test for blockage in hard line. Sucked air with ease. Hooked everything back up. Repeated bleeding procedure, but still no fluid getting to ABS unit. Still plenty of pedal travel, but doesn't seem to pump up. I'm stumped.
I am not trying to insult your intelligence, but are you sure you are opening the right bleeders on the ABS unit? If you aren't sure about the flexible line, unhook it from the hard line and confirm that your rear master cylinder can push fluid through just the new flexible line. It seems unlikely, but maybe the line is pinched or maybe it was assembled incorrectly and is blocked internally.
 

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the brake line and the line from the reservoir to and from the master cyl has to be fitted with a twist, so that when you reverse the side plate to refit it the hose reverses untwists and the pressure is released.
 

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the brake line and the line from the reservoir to and from the master cyl has to be fitted with a twist, so that when you reverse the side plate to refit it the hose reverses untwists and the pressure is released.
Very true, which is why I avoided spinning my plate around 180 degrees. That can't be good for a brake line, even a new Spiegler. I found t could work on mine adequately by swinging it straight out to horizontal or a little less. If you lay on your back or sit with your back against the bike, you can work reasonably well without the need to spin the plate in a 180 to face outwards as in your picture. Less convenient to be sure, but I think much healthier for the brake hose.
 

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On an 01, there are some pretty easy tests. First, as you did, loosen the top banjo on the master and work the pedal. You should get a good flow of fluid. Next, move to the ABS unit and loosen the rear top bleed fitting and work the pedal. You should get fluid flow there. If you get fluid from both those points, then the feed tube from the reservoir is not blocked or twisted preventing fluid flow and the short hose from the MC is not blocked. Move to the banjo on the right side at the front of the line connecting the rear caliper to the steel line and loosen there and check again. Steel line not blocked or twisted if you get fluid. Then loosen the banjo on the rear Caliper and work the pedal. If that all works, then the system is not blocked. Don't overlook the feed tube from the reservoir to the MC. If that is twisted, nothing works.
 
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You have to push the fluid from the MC to the ABS a vacuum will not pull it. Be sure you are on the correct port on the ABS it should be the tall inboard one. That one can be a real bear and is the one I always have trouble with. I normally push the fluid back to the reservoir from the ABS but the low spot is the MC so I had to just pump it up.
 

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You have to push the fluid from the MC to the ABS a vacuum will not pull it. Be sure you are on the correct port on the ABS it should be the tall inboard one. That one can be a real bear and is the one I always have trouble with. I normally push the fluid back to the reservoir from the ABS but the low spot is the MC so I had to just pump it up.
John,
The OP (HotrodSteve) confirmed earlier he has a 2001 with ABS2. I believe the technique you have described above is ONLY valid for IABS (2002-2009 in USA) as the positions and numbers of ports are not the same on ABS2 modulator.
 

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Thanks, Guess I missed that.

But still a dry system is often hard to get fluid moving in it. In this case I would PUSH fluid from the caliper back through the MC to the reservoir. You may have better luck with that.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I am not trying to insult your intelligence, but are you sure you are opening the right bleeders on the ABS unit? If you aren't sure about the flexible line, unhook it from the hard line and confirm that your rear master cylinder can push fluid through just the new flexible line. It seems unlikely, but maybe the line is pinched or maybe it was assembled incorrectly and is blocked internally.
No insult. I appreciate all the help I can get here. I am using the bleeder to the right on the ABS unit. This should operate the rear brake from what I understand. I unhooked the new flexible line from the hard line and am not getting any fluid there when operating the rear pedal master cylinder. I get fluid when I unhook from the master cylinder end so I know the master cylinder is working, but no fluid is getting to the other end. New crush washers, new banjo bolt...unless there is a defect in the line, I don't know what could be wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
You have to push the fluid from the MC to the ABS a vacuum will not pull it. Be sure you are on the correct port on the ABS it should be the tall inboard one. That one can be a real bear and is the one I always have trouble with. I normally push the fluid back to the reservoir from the ABS but the low spot is the MC so I had to just pump it up.
Not really sure how to "push" fluid. Have yet to find a syringe I can use to attach to the bleeder as suggested earlier.
 
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