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Discussion Starter #1
I know that rear drive failure has become a tired, old topic. I am not tryng to beat this dead horse, but rather helping to make sure that we BMW owners continue to discuss this topic in hopes that BMW will (finally) react with changes to the design fo the rear drive that eliminate the failures.

Here is a paragraph taken from the 2007 Iron Butt Rally report:

"The Tarnished Blue and White Roundel


A disproportionate number of the DNFs fall on the shoulders of BMW. BMW failed several riders, demonstrating that they are no longer capable of building motorcycles that can run 11,000 miles in 11 days without a significant fraction experiencing a catastrophic drivetrain failure of some sort. BMW of North America has requested contact information for the riders who experienced failures. The riders BMW should be more concerned about are the thousands of unsuspecting souls who will breakdown in the future because the company has lost its previous ability to either design durable drivetrain components or (more likely) adequately monitor production and assembly quality. It's way, way past time for BMW to fix its drivetrain reliability problems. A good start might be to acknowledge that there is a problem. "

I used to own a Honda GL1800. Gold Wings were known for chronic overheating and cracked frame welds. Mother Honda was slow to implement any changes to cure these problems until a sufficient number of owners field complaints, and (importantly) continued to post about their problems on various web sites. The potential loss of new business was enough to force Honda to make changes that cured the problems.

I truely hope the same happens with BMW, as I, like many others, deeply like owning and riding BMWs. But my patience is limited.
 

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And yet, BMW placed first and second. Where did the first Honda place? Umm...10th! :eek: I think that's the only stat that BMW Motorrad will look at.

And this comes from a victim of a failed FD. But I'm over it. And still riding a BMW, without regrets. :)
 

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A couple of FD failures at the IBR were expected the alarming stat was that 30% of the R12 "new improved" design FDs failed.

Embarrassing for BMW - it should be. Still hoping BMW pays attention.

Unlike Joe, no FD failure yet but I will continue to ride my BMW without concern - well maybe just a little.

Dave
 

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messenger13 said:
And yet, BMW placed first and second. Where did the first Honda place? Umm...10th! :eek: I think that's the only stat that BMW Motorrad will look at.

And this comes from a victim of a failed FD. But I'm over it. And still riding a BMW, without regrets. :)
A Sportster finished third. I don't know that I would use an individual's finish in the IB to demonstrate overall relliability of the brand? If you point was that BMW would hide behind those results, then we agree.

There were 4 Beemers in the top ten, demonstrating more likely that there are a larger percentage of people that prefer to participate in IBs AND own BMW's. In fact, other than the Sporty, pretty much all the bikes were sport tourers (four FJR's, an ST1300, two RT's, etc.).

Also of note, was that of those 4 BMWs, none were LT's, demonstrating possibly that lighter weight bikes would have less FD failures?
 

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Rear bites the dust for 3rd time, BMW dealer don't wanna know

I have been a bit dubious about the rear since the last rebuild, but out on a trip Friday, it started to steer from the rear.
Lucky I was passing a BMW dealer! Or was I?

"yep, it's your pinions, whats the mileage?"
"just over 80k, this is the 3rd failure!"
"oh, that's not bad going, I'd expect a rear to last 10k on average. You will have to take it back to whoever did the job on it last time. We are full up"

Needless to say, I went ballistic!!

The BMW dealer I used last time swore they had NEVER come across a rear drive problem before!

I LOVE the bike and maybe I am mad, but I will spend ANYTHING to get it reliable. I am going to bite the bullet and buy a new rear drive. But I won't be using either of these dealers to put the new rear in.
 

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Rear Drive

c00k1e

Why not get a 2nd hand one from Motorworks or Motobins and find a local engineering company (or gearbox rebuilders) to repair your old drive? Just a thought.

Regards
 

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It has crossed my mind to go 2nd hand, but there would be no knowing if the drive had already been rebuilt.
What I am hearing from these forums is that a mint unit has 4% chance of failing, but a rebuilt unit is way way more.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
It's interesting that BMW veered away from shaft drive for the F800 bikes, quite a break from tradition for BMW. Perhaps this is the start of the elimination of the shaft drive for all models.

I wonder if the goofy hole through the rear axel on the newer models has any impadct on FD durability?
 

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No LT FD's failed during the IB rally...... So whats the problem???? 4 of the 1st 5 were BMW....

The total number of FD failures throughout BMW is a 0.00XXX so that ain't much now is it??? Quit worrying and go ride...............Pete
 

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BMW has not done squat yet, from the looks of it they never will, they (THeMOCO SUCKs)

NEXT, the placing of any particular brand in the Iron Butt Rally, means nothing!!, so BMW had failures, so BMW had a 1st place finish, a sportster comes in third this year, last IBR that same sportster blew a engine. Yes same bike, same owner.
This year Particularly was the hardest IBR to plan from what every one art the IBR dinner said, some of who I value thier opinion more so then any one single person on this list when it comes to the Iron Butt Rally.

Trust me, the rally finish is the last thing to consider when picking a bike to buy or not to buy! Remember nearly Half of the entries did not FINSH the rally. what something like ninety seven entered, forty something finished. PLUS there were over 40 BMW's entered in the rally so what 4 had final drive issues (<g>)


The dealer network is the big down point for BMW, not the bike.

Forget the bs about honda, I'm fast seeing it is the most dependable machine on the road between the ST1300 and Goldwing! and they do take care of thier problems.

Forget most of the bs about HD they are lasting longer MUCH longer, underpowered yes! (However they still are having a problem with the HS wobbles on the glides - If you buy a glide have a true track or ride straight installed)

Personally, I would think about Honda 1st! if all I have in mind is not being broke down in the middle of No WHERE looking for dealer support, or Harley Davidson 2nd.

BUT we still bought new bmw's again! and we travel quite a bit.

JUST my hundreds and hundreds of thousands of miles of personal riding experience and hearing what others have to say -
hell just since 08/02 we have over 270k miles on BMW alone.

ONE FINAL DRIVE FAILURE on the '02 K1200LT it now has 155k miles on it

heck we had TWO new trans put in the '02 RT by 56k miles, I'd say the final drives are far more dependable than thier transmissions used in the RT, at least from our experience

Mike_H said:
I know that rear drive failure has become a tired, old topic. I am not tryng to beat this dead horse, but rather helping to make sure that we BMW owners continue to discuss this topic in hopes that BMW will (finally) react with changes to the design fo the rear drive that eliminate the failures.

Here is a paragraph taken from the 2007 Iron Butt Rally report:

"The Tarnished Blue and White Roundel


A disproportionate number of the DNFs fall on the shoulders of BMW. BMW failed several riders, demonstrating that they are no longer capable of building motorcycles that can run 11,000 miles in 11 days without a significant fraction experiencing a catastrophic drivetrain failure of some sort. BMW of North America has requested contact information for the riders who experienced failures. The riders BMW should be more concerned about are the thousands of unsuspecting souls who will breakdown in the future because the company has lost its previous ability to either design durable drivetrain components or (more likely) adequately monitor production and assembly quality. It's way, way past time for BMW to fix its drivetrain reliability problems. A good start might be to acknowledge that there is a problem. "

I used to own a Honda GL1800. Gold Wings were known for chronic overheating and cracked frame welds. Mother Honda was slow to implement any changes to cure these problems until a sufficient number of owners field complaints, and (importantly) continued to post about their problems on various web sites. The potential loss of new business was enough to force Honda to make changes that cured the problems.

I truely hope the same happens with BMW, as I, like many others, deeply like owning and riding BMWs. But my patience is limited.
 

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Mike_H said:
It's interesting that BMW veered away from shaft drive for the F800 bikes, quite a break from tradition for BMW. Perhaps this is the start of the elimination of the shaft drive for all models.

I wonder if the goofy hole through the rear axel on the newer models has any impadct on FD durability?
If I'm not mistaken, that's a Rotax engine, is it not? That might explain why they went belt.
 

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petepeterson said:
<whack>
The total number of FD failures throughout BMW is a 0.00XXX so that ain't much now is it??? Quit worrying and go ride...............Pete

Hi Pete!, couple of quesitons if ya don't mind

how many miles do you ride a year?
how far do you go from home?
How oftten do you travel in the middle of no where at night?
do you have time schedule when you have to be back home?

just wondering seeing how you do not worry about getting stuck at all

oops almost forgot, can you show us BMW's stats on the final drive failures? you must know seeing how you have it something like .00xx, percent? I mean heck it was right at 10% on the rally <grin>



Tom
 

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okay,, most answers are pre-qualified to when I rode regularly,, health problems have changed habits the last few years.......

My normal distance per year averaged about 20 thousand a year, more after I retired........

Never really measured how far I went from home, could be only 1 state, allot of times it was 4 or 5..Usually 2 to 25 hundred miles per trip,(depended on how much drinking was involved)...

Most, not all traveling during the day but to ride all night is a blast.........

Nope, never worried about getting home.. I knew I'd get back home sooner or later..And I never worried about breaking down,I don't think I was smart enough to realize that could happen........

Finally, you do the math, I'm not good at it, but BMW has sold allot of bikes, like one hundred thousand last year( I know not all shaft drives) so 1% FD failures would be a thousand bikes,, and that ain't happened.........Sure BMW's break, but so does all other bike brands,,just part of life.............

Can we go ride now?? ;) ..........Pete
 

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petepeterson said:
okay,, most answers are pre-qualified to when I rode regularly,, health problems have changed habits the last few years.......

My normal distance per year averaged about 20 thousand a year, more after I retired........

Never really measured how far I went from home, could be only 1 state, allot of times it was 4 or 5..Usually 2 to 25 hundred miles per trip,(depended on how much drinking was involved)...

Most, not all traveling during the day but to ride all night is a blast.........

Nope, never worried about getting home.. I knew I'd get back home sooner or later..And I never worried about breaking down,I don't think I was smart enough to realize that could happen........

Finally, you do the math, I'm not good at it, but BMW has sold allot of bikes, like one hundred thousand last year( I know not all shaft drives) so 1% FD failures would be a thousand bikes,, and that ain't happened.........Sure BMW's break, but so does all other bike brands,,just part of life.............

Can we go ride now?? ;) ..........Pete
Not sure if we can go ride or not,

ok bmw sold what under 15k in the us? so do you have real numbers of failures? world wide if you say they sold 100k bikes last year?

I mean I would like to know where you get the 1% number from, heck there was just another member here that posted a friends RT lost his final drive on a '06 RT.


My point is, you may not care if your final fails but many do, maybe it;s time for everyone to quit ignoring the problem and let BMW know they are fed up,

oh wait there is no final drive failure problem, I forgot!
sheesh what am I thinking!
only 4 on one measly rally, only another today I read of here on the lt forum of a RT-p heck that must be the only 5, oh wait I can think of at least 3 more I read of just today between here the K-bikes and the other lists I'm on so hey that is only 8 final drive failures on the new style FD's and heck I didn't even do any digging......

nope i see no problem at all.........

(shakin my head, thinking they are just not getting it)


tom
 

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Tom;

Ok Tom lets go with your numbers. Lets say they sold 15 k usa. And 50 % are LTs and 10% fail FD. That means 90 % YES 90% NINETY PERCENT of BMWs and their riders are having a great time. 80000 on mine no problems with anything mechanical,just had a radio go out. I have owned 14 bikes some better than others when it breaks I fix it. I ride about 25k/YR. Took a 6000 miler 2 years ago and NEVER thought about the bike failing. I thought about what a great time Im having with my wife, this BEAUTIFUL country
and what a great time I'm having on this great machine. After 37 yrs this is by far the best bike I have ever ridden. Maybe Im the lucky one ,oh thats right there is another 89 % of us. Ok No hard feelings just tired of hearing bad news about ANY motorcycle.

Zeke
Go Pete.
 

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Zeke said:
Tom;

Ok Tom lets go with your numbers. Lets say they sold 15 k usa. And 50 % are LTs and 10% fail FD. That means 90 % YES 90% NINETY PERCENT of BMWs and their riders are having a great time. 80000 on mine no problems with anything mechanical,just had a radio go out. I have owned 14 bikes some better than others when it breaks I fix it. I ride about 25k/YR. Took a 6000 miler 2 years ago and NEVER thought about the bike failing. I thought about what a great time Im having with my wife, this BEAUTIFUL country
and what a great time I'm having on this great machine. After 37 yrs this is by far the best bike I have ever ridden. Maybe Im the lucky one ,oh thats right there is another 89 % of us. Ok No hard feelings just tired of hearing bad news about ANY motorcycle.

Zeke
Go Pete.
that's true there is another 89% of you until it happens to you at a very bad time, why try and help your fellow riders

Do not get me wrong here, I have over 100k on my last final drive, (in fact we have right at 270 k and only ONE final drive failure)

but why not stick together and try to get something done about it for everyone else that is riding!

Oh I'm forgetting, It's just a hobby. Ya know everywhere you go someone is saying something about final drive fialures, it's getting really dang funny.


Tom
 

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Zeke said:
Tom;

Ok Tom lets go with your numbers. Lets say they sold 15 k usa. And 50 % are LTs and 10% fail FD. That means 90 % YES 90% NINETY PERCENT of BMWs and their riders are having a great time. 80000 on mine no problems with anything mechanical,just had a radio go out. I have owned 14 bikes some better than others when it breaks I fix it. I ride about 25k/YR. Took a 6000 miler 2 years ago and NEVER thought about the bike failing. I thought about what a great time Im having with my wife, this BEAUTIFUL country
and what a great time I'm having on this great machine. After 37 yrs this is by far the best bike I have ever ridden. Maybe Im the lucky one ,oh thats right there is another 89 % of us. Ok No hard feelings just tired of hearing bad news about ANY motorcycle.

Zeke
Go Pete.
Zeke. pete

here http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=82
 

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I WILL AND ALWAYS HAVE STOOD BEHIND MOTORCYCLIST.
DONT EVEN GO THERE. If WE can help IM IN.
And its Not a hobby its what I do. I ride every single day rain or not and used to get caught in the snow when we lived in Illinois. 60 miles each way every day. i put my gear on like other people put their seat belts on. I have multiple accidents in my early days and know i will fall again. I wont go thru the list.
BMW LISTEN UP, GET THE FDs fixed.
Dont ever count me out on anything motorcycle. PERIOD.


Zeke
 

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BMW has already spoken on this issue.

There isn't any reliable data on rear drive failures.

If there was an economical way to fix this problem, it would have been done.

Look for a FIX in design changes to the rear end on a new model.

Bob, ))LT
 
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