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Discussion Starter #1
'06 LT, all accessories.

It was running fine this morning. I came home after a 50 mile ride to run some errands and found that the bulkhead fitting I ordered from McMaster-Carr had arrived, so I took the tail trunk, black cover, tail light assembly and rear painted piece off. I drilled the hole in the painted piece and installed the bulkhead fitting and hose.

I needed to move the bracket holding the alarm horn and motion detector out of the way to route the fuel line, but I did not disconnect any connectors.

I re-attached the bracket, rear painted piece and tail light and was going to go to the gas station to fill the fuel cell. I left the black cover and trunk off so I could inspect the fuel line fittings for leaks.

I rolled the bike off the centerstand, turned the key on and pressed the starter button; NOTHING! I checked the kill switch, reverse knob and tried it in neutral and in first with the clutch pulled in. When I turn the key on I DO NOT hear the fuel pump pressurize as usual.

I'm pretty sure the problem is in the alarm system. I disabled the side-stand switch already and that had no affect. I programmed the alarm system and got the chirps indicating it programmed correctly, but nothing I do will get the fuel pump to run or the engine to start. I even disconnected the positive lead of the battery for about 5 minutes, to no avail.

Any thoughts?

TIA
 

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check the fuses :bmw:
 

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Silly question
Did you try pushing the left alarm fob button?
 

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What effect does the "motion detector" have on the operation of the bike?
Is it just to set off the alarm, or does it do more?

Its gotta be something simple...
 

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I'm embarrassed to say that just last week, while running errands, I tried to start my bike by pushing the BC button. I knew I have plenty of voltage as the meter read over 12 volts and for about 30 seconds I kept pushing the BC button instead of the starter! I'm probably the only one to ever do this.....

I know this isn't why your bike won't start, but you jogged my memory.
 

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jbrown said:
What effect does the "motion detector" have on the operation of the bike?
Is it just to set off the alarm, or does it do more?

Its gotta be something simple...
When the alarm is set the immobilizer is on, disabling the fuel pump and starter.
 

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GBarnes said:
'06 LT, all accessories....

I'm pretty sure the problem is in the alarm system. I disabled the side-stand switch already and that had no affect. I programmed the alarm system and got the chirps indicating it programmed correctly, but nothing I do will get the fuel pump to run or the engine to start. I even disconnected the positive lead of the battery for about 5 minutes, to no avail.

Any thoughts?

TIA
It sounds like you have tried everything. I have seen a microswitch on the reverse control mechanism fail and a couple of alarms fail giving the same symptoms you describe. I think the fuel pump would run when the microswitch failed but did not when the alarm modules failed. I never tried to program the defective alarms, so I don't know if your being able to program yours proves anything. I guess it would be prudent to check the battery voltage - since '01 there has been an under voltage cutout on the starter relay. I don't have an LT to check, but if the bike is in neutral, only the kill switch and alarm (immobilizer) will cause the fuel pump not to run.
 

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GBarnes said:
'06 LT, all accessories.

I needed to move the bracket holding the alarm horn and motion detector out of the way to route the fuel line, but I did not disconnect any connectors.

I rolled the bike off the centerstand, turned the key on and pressed the starter button; NOTHING! I checked the kill switch, reverse knob and tried it in neutral and in first with the clutch pulled in. When I turn the key on I DO NOT hear the fuel pump pressurize as usual.

but nothing I do will get the fuel pump to run or the engine to start. I even disconnected the positive lead of the battery for about 5 minutes, to no avail.
First, easy question: Have you tried lightly moving the alarm unit harness around *while* with the key on to see whether the fuel pump operates and/or start works? It may be an intermittant connection.

Moving on, assuming that you have accurately programmed the alarm unit AND have operated the fob to the "unlock" state, I'm guessing that you may have damaged one of the wires that are "permissions" to the engine when you were moving the alarm unit around.

There are three such lines --

a Brown/Grey/Yellow wire (alarm terminal #10) which provides fuel injection enable permission (operates the K9415 "Emergency Shutoff Relay")

a Blue/Grey wire (alarm terminal #6) which provides ignition enable permission (operates the K9110 "Engine Electronics Relay" (the ignition circuit power supply))

a Black/Yellow wire (alarm terminal #3) which provides starter motor permission (operates the A9600 Starter Module).

Note: these are the wire colors at the alarm unit connector -- downstream of an intermediate harness connector they change colors.

Given the fact that the fuel pump is not running, the first wire/connector I'd check is the fuel injection permission wire. I'd use my ohmmeter with a needle to penetrate the wire insulation -- one meter probe at the connector, and another with a needle a few inches downstream of the alarm unit, to see whether there is a break in the wire close to the connector.

Looking forward to getting more data from your testing :thumb:
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Guys,
Thanks for all of the suggestions. I did check the fuses and they are all good. I tried to disarm the alarm with both fobs, but that doesn't help. Also, when using the fob, I don't get the turn signal blinks that I think I should.

Another anomaly is that the power centerstand won't operate; the little sidestand light blinks as if I had the sidestand down or the brake on.

I did "lightly" pinch one of the smaller wire looms under the alarm bracket when I first started to put it back on. I don't think I tightened the bracket down before realizing it. I'll inspect the wires in that loom in the morning.

Thanks again,
GB
 

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GBarnes said:
Guys,
Thanks for all of the suggestions. I did check the fuses and they are all good. I tried to disarm the alarm with both fobs, but that doesn't help. Also, when using the fob, I don't get the turn signal blinks that I think I should.

Thanks again,
GB
That is a big flag on the play. The alarm is not responding properly. Some times you have to operate the FOB many many (20 or more set - reset trys) times to get it to sync back up to where the alarm responds correctly.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Okay. I traced everything I touched yesterday and everything is good; no breaks in the wires, all connectors tight, (although, like I said, I never un-did any of them in the first place). The alarm seems to be working fine; I can arm it and hear the locks lock and I get the chirps from the horn and, when I turn the key with it armed, the siren goes off :)

I'm going to do a continuity test on all of the fuses; I have had cases where the fuse looked good, but was actually bad.

However, the three sysmptoms: no centerstand, no fuel pump and no starter operation, are all indicative of the sidestand being down, (although it should start in neutral even if the stand is down, right?), makes me suspect the sidestand connector or wires.

Back at it.

GB
 

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GBarnes said:
Okay. I traced everything I touched yesterday and everything is good; no breaks in the wires, all connectors tight, (although, like I said, I never un-did any of them in the first place). The alarm seems to be working fine; I can arm it and hear the locks lock and I get the chirps from the horn and, when I turn the key with it armed, the siren goes off :)

I'm going to do a continuity test on all of the fuses; I have had cases where the fuse looked good, but was actually bad.

However, the three sysmptoms: no centerstand, no fuel pump and no starter operation, are all indicative of the sidestand being down, (although it should start in neutral even if the stand is down, right?), makes me suspect the sidestand connector or wires.

Back at it.

GB
George, have you tried pulling the sidestand switch connector and jumpered the terminals to bypass the switch?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
deanwoolsey said:
Check your battery voltage or put it on the charger overnight.
Battery is brand new. However, since I'm willing to try anything at this point, I just went out and checked the voltage. It was at 11.5 with the key off. Just for the heck of it, and to see what the drop would be with the key on, I turned the key on and, low and behold, I heard the fuel pump pressurize! I pushed the starter button and it tried to turn over, but slowly, so I let the button off and put it on my trickle charger. I'll give it some time to get over 12 volts and try it again.

The only other thing I did between this attempt and the last ones was to jumper the sidestand switch at the connector under the seat. When I was trying to get the wires loose down under the transmission, the wire ties ver VERY tight. I'm wondering if I have a broken wire down there somehwere. The will be easy to check.

Thanks again,

GB
 

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11.5 V is essentially a dead battery, so it must have drained somehow. Fully charged should be in the vicinity of 13.2 V. I'd keep charging it until it has a full charge, as further discharging a battery that isn't fully charged is very hard on it - especially gel batteries.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Same issue; it won't start, (again)!

OK, just when I thought all was well. I put it back together and got ready to go fill up the aux fuel tank to test it and, just like yesterday, nothing! No fuel pump pressure, no centerstand and no starter. Someone I know says maybe the load shed relay, but I don't see how.

I put the old battery back in and, although it showed 12.5 volts, (with the key off), it didn't result in any improvement.

This is getting frustrating.

GB
 

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Re: Same issue; it won't start, (again)!

GBarnes said:
OK, just when I thought all was well. I put it back together and got ready to go fill up the aux fuel tank to test it and, just like yesterday, nothing! No fuel pump pressure, no centerstand and no starter. Someone I know says maybe the load shed relay, but I don't see how.

I put the old battery back in and, although it showed 12.5 volts, (with the key off), it didn't result in any improvement.

This is getting frustrating.

GB
You have probably already checked this, but did you verify that all of the wires and the bolts on the starter are tight. I have seen several intermittent problems caused by the starter as it act as a ground for the load shead relay. You might also try tapping on the starter. You might also try a set of jumper cables to a car battery, without the car running.

Jim
 

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Re: Same issue; it won't start, (again)!

GBarnes said:
OK, just when I thought all was well. I put it back together and got ready to go fill up the aux fuel tank to test it and, just like yesterday, nothing! No fuel pump pressure, no centerstand and no starter. Someone I know says maybe the load shed relay, but I don't see how.

I put the old battery back in and, although it showed 12.5 volts, (with the key off), it didn't result in any improvement.

This is getting frustrating.

GB
The thing that makes me think it's not the load shed relay is the fuel pump -- it is not tied into any of the circuits dumped by the load shed relay (which makes sense -- you want the fuel pump running when cranking to maintain pressure un the fuel rail).

I'm still stuck back at the sidestand switch or the alarm module -- maybe a short in one of the alarm harness wires that roasted the alarm module?? Grasping at straws at the moment, but from what you've posted, the only disturbance was back in the rear -- that is where I would be concentrating my efforts.

I'll take another look at the schematics tonight to see if any other possibilities jump out at me.
 

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Re: Same issue; it won't start, (again)!

GBarnes said:
OK, just when I thought all was well. I put it back together and got ready to go fill up the aux fuel tank to test it and, just like yesterday, nothing! No fuel pump pressure, no centerstand and no starter. Someone I know says maybe the load shed relay, but I don't see how.

I put the old battery back in and, although it showed 12.5 volts, (with the key off), it didn't result in any improvement.

This is getting frustrating.

GB
This really sounds like a problem with the DWA (alarm) module. I will confess that it still doesn't all add up. I need an excuse for a Saturday ride - do you want me to see if I can borrow an alarm module from someone, grab schematics and a meter and head your way?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Re: Same issue; it won't start, (again)!

Randy said:
This really sounds like a problem with the DWA (alarm) module. I will confess that it still doesn't all add up.
I agree, on both counts.


I need an excuse for a Saturday ride - do you want me to see if I can borrow an alarm module from someone, grab schematics and a meter and head your way?
Ha,ha. That's the first laugh I've had all day, thanks! Sure, come on over Randy. The only thing is, I need to tell you that I moved to Issaquah, Washington, last month. What do you drink? It's the least I could do for you, right?

I did try jumping the battery to a car; volt meter on the Garmin showed 14.4 volts, still no fuel pump, power centerstand or starter, so that rules out a low-voltage problem.

The alarm works in all other functions. It arms and disarms, locks and unlocks the bag latches, and goes off if you move the bike when it's armend, (the wife and the dog wish I had warned them about that one before I did it :))

Still thinking. I may tear her down and check the fuel pump relay, but I'm 995 certain it's not getting a signal to close.

Thanks again,

GB
 
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