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Discussion Starter #1
You experienced engine builders, whattaya tink?

Getting ready for first start after my top end over haul.
New rings, valve job.

Wondering if someone has a suggestion on how to crank the engine without starting just to get the oil pump to flood the galleries before actually firing it up.

I've done a few engines before, and I always just started the engine right up, never had a problem. I've oiled everything during assembly but the camshaft galleries won't be full.

Can I just pull out the spark plugs and crank the engine for a while or can that damage the ignition system?

Or should I even bother?
 

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You experienced engine builders, whattaya tink?

Getting ready for first start after my top end over haul.
New rings, valve job.

Wondering if someone has a suggestion on how to crank the engine without starting just to get the oil pump to flood the galleries before actually firing it up.

I've done a few engines before, and I always just started the engine right up, never had a problem. I've oiled everything during assembly but the camshaft galleries won't be full.

Can I just pull out the spark plugs and crank the engine for a while or can that damage the ignition system?

Or should I even bother?
On k1200RS, there is a loophole in the starter interlocks that will allow you to run starter without fuel or ignition - I often use this technique to exercise oil pump after long storage.
Because of reverse-gear electronics (part of starter interlocks), this might not work on K1200LT, but it will NOT do any harm - in worst case the starter button will do nothing:

(1) Park on center-stand
(2) Side-stand down
(3) shift in any gear (not neutral)
(4) Ignition ON (wait a few sec)
(5) Pull clutch lever fully, THEN press starter (while keeping clutch lever in)

Engine will not start but should turn over.
 

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Charley I would pull the plugs and ground plugs to motor. Pull off the valve cover to look for oil being pumped up top. Once you have that your good to go.
Button her up and enjoy the next couple of 100K miles out of the bike !
 

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Enjoy The Ride
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If you filled the oil filter with oil before you installed it & with everything well lubed I would just start it. Warm not cold oil would help. If you don't have a heated garage then a heat lamp or equivalent will help to heat the oil.
 

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Engine will not start. But will turn over. This will work on the LT after storing all winter huh?
 

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Enjoy The Ride
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Our race engines have external oil pumps and we can remove the drive belt & prime the engine before we start them. We also have heaters on the oil tank to preheat the oil. Every now & then we don't get a chance to preheat the oil & even though we primed the engine I can tell that it was started with cold oil when I rebuild it.
 

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Wrencher Extraordinaire
2005 K1200LT
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On k1200RS, there is a loophole in the starter interlocks that will allow you to run starter without fuel or ignition - I often use this technique to exercise oil pump after long storage.
Because of reverse-gear electronics (part of starter interlocks), this might not work on K1200LT, but it will NOT do any harm - in worst case the starter button will do nothing:

(1) Park on center-stand
(2) Side-stand down
(3) shift in any gear (not neutral)
(4) Ignition ON (wait a few sec)
(5) Pull clutch lever fully, THEN press starter (while keeping clutch lever in)

Engine will not start but should turn over.
On the LT the starter will not turn if you are in gear, clutch in and the side stand is extended. I use this method at fuel stops to kill the engine in gear with the side stand. Occasionally I forget to raise the side stand after fueling and the bike will not crank. Raise the side stand and it fires right up and I drive away. Center stand has no affect.
 

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On the LT the starter will not turn if you are in gear, clutch in and the side stand is extended. I use this method at fuel stops to kill the engine in gear with the side stand. Occasionally I forget to raise the side stand after fueling and the bike will not crank. Raise the side stand and it fires right up and I drive away. Center stand has no affect.
John,
On occasion, to confirm side-stand switch is working in both direction, I use the same technique at fuel stops to kill engine (extend side stand in gear , engine dies , then turn key off).

However, in 2nd generation K1200RS (2002-2005 USA) there is a loophole in starter-interlocks - starter button will turn starter if you pull clutch lever, BUT it will never start (as fuel and/or ignition is cut by Motronic). Hence, I was curious if same would apply to 1st gen or 2nd gen K1200LT.
 

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Wrencher Extraordinaire
2005 K1200LT
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Curtis can pull fuse F4 and kill the ECU and Fuel Pump but allow cranking to build up oil pressure.
 

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Miles of Smiles
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+1 for John's idea.
I just pull the fuel pump fuse and crank for 20 sec or so.
+1 for installing the oil filter pre filled too.

Happy riding
 

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Wrencher Extraordinaire
2005 K1200LT
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I am sure you put some assembly lube on the cam and did not install it dry. Just checking.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I am sure you put some assembly lube on the cam and did not install it dry. Just checking.
I didn't use any proprietary "assembly lube", I know there are some products which claim to have better retention for initial startup, didn't buy any of that stuff. I just used engine oil on all surfaces, every bearing and journal, crank, cam shafts, cam followers. Basically every moving surface had as much oil as the clearances would allow. (Good, old fashioned oil can). :)
And, yeah, the oil filter filled to the brim before installing; I always do that.
However, I know that the galleys in the camshafts drained somewhat, and I didn't make an effort to refill them before reinstalling. That's why I want to crank it a while before I put the ignition to it. I'm just hoping to have good oil pressure right off.

I'm also thinking of putting a squirt of engine oil in the spark plug holes. (Just to make it smoke more on start-up) :histerica
 

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Discussion Starter #15
SitRep

Installed the gas tank, reconnected all electrical connections. Pulled spark plugs and rotated the crank 360 degrees just to be sure I didn't screw up the valve timing. If I had a valve/piston interference I wanted to find out by hand rotating things rather than finding out when I cranked the starter. (Yeah, I'm a worrywart). :)

Engines I have done: Volvo 122S, Datsun 280Z, BMW R75/5, R90S, R90/6; they all survived my rebuilds. ;)

But there is always that start up anxiety. Back when I was building electronic stuff in my Ham Radio days, the last test was the "smoke test". Spend weeks soldering and bench testing circuits, but on the final day, plug it in. Wait for smoke. No smoke? Good.

First start on an engine rebuild has that kind of anxiety for me; I haven't done enough to have confidence.

Old joke: What is the essential ingredient in all electrical circuits? Ans. "Smoke".
Why, because whenever the smoke gets out, it doesn't work any more. :histerica
Class Charlie Fire! Commander!

Tomorrow, heat the oil pan, pull fuse #4 and crank it a while. Run an exhaust hose out under the garage door, then put in the fuse and see what happens. Look for leaks. :)
 

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Enjoy The Ride
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If you run a exhaust hose out the door you will have made all of that extra olive oil you put in the spark plug holes a waste of time. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Startup

Thanks for all the guidance during this project.

I started this AM.... brief problem: On first start up it wouldn't idle, ran rough, and needed blipping of the throttle to keep going. Quick check of faults with the GS-911 show TPS fault. Discovered I had failed to plug in the TPS. The plug for the TPS sensor had disappeared into the bowels of the frame so when I went about plugging everthing back in I missed it.
GPS-911 told me of the fault, so had to take the tank back off to search around for the problem. The plug was so tucked out of site it took me a few minutes to find it. :)

Engine now sounds fine, K-bike rattle well preserved and all. :histerica

Now to button the bike back up and wait for April. Unless we get a really good thaw and a rain that washes the salt of the roads, and clears my driveway of snow and ice, the bike will suckle on the battery tender until after sugaring season.

Thanks again for all the help from so many folks for all the suggestions along the way.
Free maple syrup to any contributor who makes it up here for coffee and conversation.

:thumb:
 

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Re: Startup

Thanks for all the guidance during this project.

I started this AM.... brief problem: On first start up it wouldn't idle, ran rough, and needed blipping of the throttle to keep going. Quick check of faults with the GS-911 show TPS fault. Discovered I had failed to plug in the TPS. The plug for the TPS sensor had disappeared into the bowels of the frame so when I went about plugging everthing back in I missed it.
GPS-911 told me of the fault, so had to take the tank back off to search around for the problem. The plug was so tucked out of site it took me a few minutes to find it. :)

Engine now sounds fine, K-bike rattle well preserved and all. :histerica

Now to button the bike back up and wait for April. Unless we get a really good thaw and a rain that washes the salt of the roads, and clears my driveway of snow and ice, the bike will suckle on the battery tender until after sugaring season.

Thanks again for all the help from so many folks for all the suggestions along the way.
Free maple syrup to any contributor who makes it up here for coffee and conversation.

:thumb:
God job - I am sure you will sleep better now ;-)

I have done a lot of testing on these TB and I must say I am very surprised the engine would start with TPS not connected (although I never tried that case).

Are you sure it was not the TVA that was not connected ?
See attached diagram...
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Re: Startup

...Are you sure it was not the TVA that was not connected ?
See attached diagram...
Yup, sure. The TVA has a connector in plain sight, that was easy to see during reconnection of things.
The TPS's connector on the sensor itself is on the bottom of the sensor assembly, not so obvious; and the connector coming from the harness was so tucked away I didn't see that either.

And the GS-911 showed TPS fault, not TVA fault.

Yeah, it started right up with the TPS disconnected. Needed a little extra throttle at the grip compared the usual cold start, and then needed "blipping" to stay running. It would not idle and would die immediately if the throttle was let go of.

Thanks! for the suggestions :thumb:
 
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