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Discussion Starter #1
Has anybody heard of tuliped exhaust valves and if so what the cause might be.
 

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From a quick Google search of "tuliped valves":


The valves will only "tulip" from too much heat or too much spring pressure. I assume that the springs are stock so that leaves heat. It doesn't have to be an overheating engine, just too much heat in the cylinder. This can come from an EGR that is not working, lean mixture on that cylinder, wrong spark plugs, too much timing advance or a vacuum leak on that cylinder.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
My engine has been overheated due to a broken thermostat after an encounter with a jack rabbit.

Does the LT have an EGR valve?
 

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jsr said:
My engine has been overheated due to a broken thermostat after an encounter with a jack rabbit.

Does the LT have an EGR valve?
No, it doesn't as far as I know. My earlier post was a quick cut n' paste from another site from my Google query of "tuliped" valves.

"A tuliped valve has an increased total valve length and the top of the valve has the appearance of a "cup". Combustion chamber temperatures that have exceeded the engine's original design parameters usually may cause a tuliped intake valve. Each valve used in an engine has a specific requirement, which results in different materials for intake and exhaust valve locations. Design engineers will specify which materials will economically work best for the intake and for the exhaust locations."

What makes you think you have valve damage?
Others on this board have a much better understand than I of fuel control systems on the KLT motor that might cause overheating. But in general any lean running condition can do it. If you had severe overheating due to cooling system malfunction as you describe with a thermostat problem, I'd suspect other engine damage beyond the valves. I don't recall posts regarding valve damage, you may be the first.

Jack Rabbits? You gotta explain the jack rabbit/thermostat connection. :histerica
 

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A tuliped valve is where the top of the valve becomes concave presuming it started out flat. Essentially the top of the valve gets so hot it softens and deforms. As Curtis said the cause can be from various sources but they all involve the valve getting too hot. If all the valves (exhaust only) are tuliped then the entire engine overheated, if only one valve is cupped, then that specific cylinder got too hot. The exhaust valves go first as they run hotter under normal conditions since they are exposed to the hot burnt gasses. If your intake valves have cupped also then you really got her hot, perhaps so hot it quit running. I would expect that if the jackrabbit incident caused her to overheat and you pressed on for some serious miles that might have caused it.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Jack Rabbit bent the left radiator, took out the high beam and broke 3 of the 4 mount points for the low beam. Also damaged some of the fairing duct work. After replacing all the engine tended to run hot and finally discovered the thermostat which is in the right radiator must have been jarred enough to break as it came out in 2 pieces.

The rabbit was actually a suicidal jack-alope in western SD that I hit doing about 75. He was on the center line facing the left so I stayed way off to the right and just as I got to him he turned and jumped at the bike. Bike still ran, rabbit didn't.

As for why I think I have tuliped valves. Oil has been getting black really fast and since winter has set in hauled it to the shop and said find out why. They have head off and have valves, guides and seals on order. Also rings since we are in this far. Bike was running OK but did not like how black the oil was getting so fast, oil consumption was not an issue.

Hope this covers most of what you wanted to know, by the way has 242,905 miles on it.
 

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The first thing that happens when a valve tulips is you loose some lash or all of it. As the head of the valve tulips the valve length grows longer. Once you loose all of your lash the valve head doesn't contact the valve seat anymore. When the valve doesn't contact the seat it doesn't cool properly & more tulip can occur.

Tulip's I can't remember if they come up every spring on there own or if you have to replant every spring. :rolleyes:
 

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First, I gotta say I'm impressed with your odometer readout. 'course, you gotta go a long way before you get any wheres in the Dakotas. :histerica

That sure was some ambitious rabbit, trying to hitch a ride that way.

Fargo?!? well that about 'splains everything. The Cohen Bros. informed the world about Fargo, and lot's of us believe the yarn to be the truth. ;)

More seriously, I wondered if the head had been pulled or you were just surmising from leak down tests, compression data, etc. I was interested to learn that the head has been pulled and the valves visualized.

I've seen an increase in oil consumption in my 2000 with 82K miles and have thought about pulling the head to change the valve seals. Compression and lead down tests are good. For most of the bike's life it didn't use any oil between changes, but more recently I have to top off a few times between changes. I have a tendency to run the engine hard, crank the throttle to high rpms and accelerate hard out of turns; I've wondered if I didn't wear the seals a bit.

Pulling the head seems like a chore when just adding a little oil is so easy. And it would take time. Our riding season here in the Deep South of Vermont is quite a bit longer than what you have in Dakota so you can understand my reluctance to start such a project. :histerica

Thanks for sharing info regrading you valve problems. :thumb:


jsr said:
Jack Rabbit bent the left radiator, took out the high beam and broke 3 of the 4 mount points for the low beam. Also damaged some of the fairing duct work. After replacing all the engine tended to run hot and finally discovered the thermostat which is in the right radiator must have been jarred enough to break as it came out in 2 pieces.

The rabbit was actually a suicidal jack-alope in western SD that I hit doing about 75. He was on the center line facing the left so I stayed way off to the right and just as I got to him he turned and jumped at the bike. Bike still ran, rabbit didn't.

As for why I think I have tuliped valves. Oil has been getting black really fast and since winter has set in hauled it to the shop and said find out why. They have head off and have valves, guides and seals on order. Also rings since we are in this far. Bike was running OK but did not like how black the oil was getting so fast, oil consumption was not an issue.

Hope this covers most of what you wanted to know, by the way has 242,905 miles on it.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Charlie, the leak down test showed the worst cylinder to be 7% and the best to be 1% prior to teardown. The compression if I am recalling right was about 130 (not for sure on this).

Main reason for the teardown was black in the oil and no sign from oil analysis of any thing to be concerned with.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
If I was doing this myself I would, but will see if the shop can save the parts and would post at a later date.

By the way, if the overheating did this, I just found the mileage that I had the thermostat replaced and it was at 106,216. I can say it was about that time that the oil started darkening up more rapidly after changes. What I am impressed with, and maybe should have continued to ride as is, is that it has been another 136,000 miles since then.
 

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Not sure why you are concerned about oil going "black". Mine is black 3 hours after an oil change and stays that way until the next one. Did it with Dino and synthetic. There is a lot of old oil left in the rocker cover. Only way out is to remove it or dilute it.
 

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A "tuliped" valve could run without problems for quite some time as long as the clearance is proper. If the valves were set right after the overheat issue, you may have just cooked your seals a little too and the oil blackens quickly because of that. The other thing to think about is that synthetic oil turns black with water contamination. Regular oil turns tan or milkshake color. Short trips? Starts without riding the bike? Cold morning starts? Any of these quickly blacken the oil.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Dean,

I generally try not to do short trips with any of my vehicles. Try to get the engine to normal operating temperature and run it for awhile prior to shut down. As an example the direct distance to work is 1.1 miles, it normally takes me 20+ miles to get there whether I am in the E350 Ford van or on the bike.
 

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jsr said:
................

Hope this covers most of what you wanted to know, by the way has 242,905 miles on it.
Nearly 1/4 million miles! :wow: :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown: It's hard to get ones head around this number! Amazing! Stupendous! Incredible!

So Jeff, not counting the dozens of tire, filter and oil changes, as well as other routine maintenance, what have you had to do to keep the ol' girl running?

Congratulations again on the milestone just ahead of you.

Oh, sorry to hear about your valves,

Loren

Dayam, 242,905 miles! Here's to your next 1/4 million miles! :toast:
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Loren,

We won't talk about the 4 final drives (3 provided by BMW), the 2 soon to be 3 rear main seals, the 2 rear and 1 front U-joints and the 3 centerstands. I bought the bike to ride and I know anything mechanical can and will fail. Have only been left on the side of the road twice, once with a final drive and once with a fuel line seperating from the fuel filter.

I also have replaced the cam chain and tensioner rails about every 100K.
 

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So then. If I read your previous post correctly just routine maintenance and an occasional puff of air to adjust the tire pressure?

:histerica

Where was CharlieVt hiding when you needed him to rebuild that first failed final drive?

Loren
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Loren,

Never add air to tires, just replace often enough.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
By the way first final drive was the threaded ring seal would not seal, second was the outer bearing spun on the shaft, third one was the threaded ring bearing and fourth one was the more standard inner bearing.
 

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Hi Jeff,

I remember when you had the first timing chain guides done, and a clutch too I believe. The chain and guides were for insurance though, correct? The original chain and guides were ok if I remember your post and that you were going off the "recommended" change interval (plus a whole lot of miles :D ). I have over 1901k on my original chain and guides and no indication of looseness or noise from that region of the engine. Having said that I still plan to do an in-frame rebuild of the engine this winter for my own mental wellbeing. I also want to refresh the cylinder head and since I'm into it that far I will probably re-ring the engine and mic the crank while I'm at it. At that point I'll see if I need to go any further.

You mentioned the oil turning "black" and there could be a number of reasons for this. Did you say an oil test did not show anything unusual? The "overheat" does some nasty things to an engine; especially to the pistons, rings and valves (stem seals too). Any of those items going south will cause combustion gases to mix with your oil and change the characteristics of your lubricant.

I'm now in the process of rebuilding a friends 2005. My gallery has some pictures posted and I started a thread that I'll update over the next few weeks as I tackle the project. Good luck with your engine and I hope you are all ready for many more miles when the thaw comes around an a few months.

Regards,
 
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