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Great minds think alike!
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
:) :cool:
 

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I have as much respect for Einstein's view on religeon, as I would any other pagan. I do, however, believe whole-heartedly that his view has changed quite a bit since his death. ;)
 

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cfell said:
"Instead of religion, seen as metaphysical and as something from above - perhaps also as something individualistic -, the great moral themes come into play as the essential which then confers dignity on man and engages him."

So I see that his holiness agrees with me - do the right thing simply because it's the right thing to do, and not because you're expecting some sort of everlasting reward from that guy on the pack of cigarette rolling papers. :)

As for his views on controlling abortion, gay marriage, and the necessity of the church in people's lives, well let's just say that he's missing the point and that his assumptions and arguments are basically irrelevant in today's society.

Hey, at least we're already in the right forum so no one has to move this one. :)
 

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messenger13 said:
I have as much respect for Einstein's view on religeon, as I would any other pagan. I do, however, believe whole-heartedly that his view has changed quite a bit since his death. ;)
And that's simply an assumption based on your own preconceived notions.

Tell you what Joe, when we're both dead, then we can discuss it further. Deal?
 

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paalao said:
Pål,
Since you are obviously searching for the truth you might start my looking what this astrophysicist has to say http://www.christis.org.uk/archive/issue10/scientist.html

Or what astrophysicist Dr. Hugh Ross has to say http://www.tedmontgomery.com/bblovrvw/C_1a.html
and
http://www.reasons.org/

Here is another reason to come visit me:
Dr. Einstein's brain was kept in a jar right here in Kansas for a while!!!
He wasn't using it anymore! Read all about it.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4602913

Go outside and look abound, there is plenary evidence every where that God exists!
"For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse (Rom. 1:20)."

This is serious business, I will not joke around with you on this topic like I do on so many others!

Pål, I continue to pray for you.

Norris
 

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meese said:
Tell you what Joe, when we're both dead, then we can discuss it further. Deal?
Well . . . that's a lovely thought, but we both know that there are issues with that. Accordingly to your beliefs, we will both be dead and rot away, so we won't be discussing anything at that point. And according to my beliefs, I'll be in heaven with Jesus and you ... not so much. So, no discussion there either. Well, not unless you have a change of heart (then mind) by the time you die. ;)

Don't fret Ken, I'm still praying for ya. One of these days you'll "come around". :D
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
norriscooper said:
Pål,
Since you are obviously searching for the truth you might start my looking what this astrophysicist has to say http://www.christis.org.uk/archive/issue10/scientist.html

Or what astrophysicist Dr. Hugh Ross has to say http://www.tedmontgomery.com/bblovrvw/C_1a.html
and
http://www.reasons.org/

Here is another reason to come visit me:
Dr. Einstein's brain was kept in a jar right here in Kansas for a while!!!
He wasn't using it anymore! Read all about it.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4602913

Go outside and look abound, there is plenary evidence every where that God exists!
"For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse (Rom. 1:20)."

This is serious business, I will not joke around with you on this topic like I do on so many others!

Pål, I continue to pray for you.

Norris

Norris,

A religious scientist will always try to work around his faith in a way that where he cant explain it then he makes up a way that fits his beliefs. Even if the scientific evidence is huge he will find away around it.
The mass brainwashing which a religion is, is stronger obviously then the evidence he finds or look for and on those items that may make him doubth, he will avoid.

Then you have to take in account that the Bible is rewritten all the time to fit the time we live in, thus we have lots of different views coming forward and that makes the masses still flock around the fables of the origin. WHY? you may ask, becouse the words of the original would not suit a modern society and thus the religion may die out. And who have to gain on the religion staying on? The powerfull and those who want to controle the masses.
Religion = Power

You are saying that if I look outside then there is plenty of evidence that God exsist. And I am wondering what you put in a god? is nature a god ?
is life a god? Is other planets also gods? and are all the galaxies also god?
Or is god for you an thinking entity that makle up roules to live by? how about the other gods? There must be thousands of gods and why are not theire gods the right god?
See how weird this is ?

IMO religion should be banned from all public display, either in politics and in any form that makes a roule for someone to live by. I think religion is something for the dark cellars or to stay hidden in some "closet" becouse no other movement have coused so much distress to anyone and everyone then those living under the power of belief in gods.

I may respect a person but never will I respect his religion.

Norris, I am not searching for any truth, I know the truth and it is based on science which is proven, not fables and caracters from a book of fairytales as previous descirbed.
hat baffles me is how you and others who are quite bright, how you can ignore the facts and instead believe in fiction from an old and many times rewritten book. That will always baffle me.

Knowing that you mean well, you can pray as mush as you will for me, you have my "blessings" :)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
To the religious.

How about life on other planets?
Very few religious people belive that there is life on other planets...and I am wondering.
If they think that, then how can they claim that god created earth with all its features? What about the other visible planets and those we know is out there ?
Are we to belive that there is no life on other planets and that the "god" only thought about creating life on one planet?
If you grab a fist full of sand on a big sandy beach, then you take out 1 grain of that sand and think of that as planet earth. Then look around you at all the sand/planets out there...is it then not naiv to believe that we are alone? More naiv then believe that there is a god out there running the whole show?

For the records, I have seen 3 flying wessels on seperate occations that is definately not something you will find on earth and I do have the aviation background to say so.

Take care where ever your dreams, thoughts and believes will take you :)

Pål
 

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I still don't understand. One is logic - one is belief. They do not mix and you cannot debate belief. What would you use for reference that would hold up? If someone wishes to believe in something that is fine, but don't look for logic to explain it.
 

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Pål,

You must have too much time one your hand. Nobody is going to change anybodies mind here. We are all mature, some more than others ;) adults and have our belief system firmly in place. The reason we are here is to socialize with other rider and learn how to maintain and improve our bikes .

To me, riding a well running bike on a great day with my wife behind me to a gathering of friends to enjoy a great meal and great company, and than make it home without incident makes me thank God. This whole experience did not just happened randomly there had to be an intelligent process to make all of this come together at the same time. Thats just my view, at least in this country we are all entitled to our own view.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Wolfgang said:
Pål,

You must have too much time one your hand. Nobody is going to change anybodies mind here. We are all mature, some more than others ;) adults and have our belief system firmly in place. The reason we are here is to socialize with other rider and learn how to maintain and improve our bikes .

To me, riding a well running bike on a great day with my wife behind me to a gathering of friends to enjoy a great meal and great company, and than make it home without incident makes me thank God. This whole experience did not just happened randomly there had to be an intelligent process to make all of this come together at the same time. Thats just my view, at least in this country we are all entitled to our own view.
Yes Wolfgang, I am on sick leave so nothing much to do during the days before my surgery will be but sit here or ride my bike. Riding my bike give me aces in my leg joints so I cant do that either all day.

The first posting was news, news which kind a explains what Einstein really ment instead of him beeing constantly abused by the religious in him beeing a religious person, Kind a set it streight thingy. Then someone responded to me "Pål" and as a courtecy I responded back.

Yes the notion of maturity is certantly here in age, and most likely in life also.
I also read between the lines Wolfgang ;)

Beeing German I am sure you know that in all of the modern western world we are ALL entitled to our own views so the point of you beeing there as in having an exclusive right does not hold water :) Why else mention it ?

We differ on many things you and I but still we can have a friendly conversation. And I am sure that you understand my need to comment when you may say something that can be seen like you have a special right in something becouse you live there, (again why mention it if there is no point to it) for me to point out that this special right is universal accepted elswhere also.

But maybe that is where I get to be immature...when I point that out? Or when I give an exstenicve explanation to my stand when someone is asking for it.
I`d admitt that I did not get that in the last tread where Norris asked me about investing, I thought it was a sincere request and gave an extencive indebth explanation, and not a joke as it turns out, on his behalf. But hopefully next time I will get it and then joke back hoping that he was not serious that time.

Good night and sweet dreams to all of you

Pål

PS!

"This whole experience did not just happened randomly there had to be an intelligent process to make all of this come together at the same time."

Yes Wolfgang and that process was your doing or the one who set the arrangment up, not your God ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #17
dandiver said:
I still don't understand. One is logic - one is belief. They do not mix and you cannot debate belief. What would you use for reference that would hold up? If someone wishes to believe in something that is fine, but don't look for logic to explain it.
Very good answear :)
 

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says Paaloo: Good night and sweet dreams to all of you

I get nervous when a guy says that to me... :rotf:
 

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http://www.astrobio.net/news/article966.html

http://homepage.mac.com/WebObjects/...tefn=RootSite.xml&aff=consumer&cty=US&lang=en

"Believing in science is being religious." http://media.www.sacredheartspectru...onomer.Discusses.gods.Mechanics-3134214.shtml

http://www.americanscientist.org/template/BookReviewTypeDetail/assetid/25950;jsessionid=baa9...
Quote:
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Science and Faith: An Excerpt from Brother Astronomer

Science is ultimately based on insight, not logic. But it uses logic to explain and test and develop the insights on which it is based.

Religion is not all that different. To say it is based on faith, not logic, is both false and totally misrepresents what we mean by faith.

Explaining faith is like trying to explain a joke, or trying to describe a color to a blind person....

The science fundamentalist believes, and the religious fundamentalist fears, that religion is a fairy tale suitable only for children, and that once you learn science it will leave no more room for religion. But that just doesn't happen.

Some people are tone-deaf. It's not their fault, and I don't criticize them for it. But I might get bent out of shape if a tone-deaf person insisted that my love of music was a hallucination, based on lies my parents taught me.

Or more absurdly, that my love of music would go away once I'd learned the physics of sound waves.

Brother Astronomer: Adventures of a Vatican Scientist
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

http://www.cathnews.com/news/403/165.php

you can donload "Brother Astronomer" here http://www.booksonboard.com/index.php?BODY=viewbook&BOOK=13661
 

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messenger13 said:
Well . . . that's a lovely thought, but we both know that there are issues with that. Accordingly to your beliefs, we will both be dead and rot away, so we won't be discussing anything at that point. And according to my beliefs, I'll be in heaven with Jesus and you ... not so much. So, no discussion there either. Well, not unless you have a change of heart (then mind) by the time you die. ;)

Don't fret Ken, I'm still praying for ya. One of these days you'll "come around". :D
Well Joe, you beat me to it!

Well said.
 
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