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Discussion Starter #1
Damn my butterfingers.. So when I was removing the old oil seal by drilling a hole for a screw to pull it out with, the drill bit slipped and went between the seal and the housing.
I "fixed" it by slapping some RTV sealant in there but surprise surprise, it didn't hold. So now I have to pull the swingarm again and do it properly.

I was thinking about cleaning it up real well and fill the cavity with J-B Weld and then slap a new oil seal on.

Does this make sense to you guys? Any better ideas / materials? Loctite has an Epoxy Weld Bonding Compound, maybe that would work even better?

Second question; Is it possible to remove and install the swingarm with the FD attached? Getting the drive shaft back onto the output shaft may be a bit too difficult since access to the it through the swingarm bearing opening is somewhat limited.. Any other things that would prevent doing the swingarm&FD installation this way? Just looking to save some time here if possible but also don't want to mess anything up in the process.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
 

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Damn my butterfingers.. So when I was removing the old oil seal by drilling a hole for a screw to pull it out with, the drill bit slipped and went between the seal and the housing.
I "fixed" it by slapping some RTV sealant in there but surprise surprise, it didn't hold. So now I have to pull the swingarm again and do it properly.

I was thinking about cleaning it up real well and fill the cavity with J-B Weld and then slap a new oil seal on.

Does this make sense to you guys? Any better ideas / materials? Loctite has an Epoxy Weld Bonding Compound, maybe that would work even better?

Second question; Is it possible to remove and install the swingarm with the FD attached? Getting the drive shaft back onto the output shaft may be a bit too difficult since access to the it through the swingarm bearing opening is somewhat limited.. Any other things that would prevent doing the swingarm&FD installation this way? Just looking to save some time here if possible but also don't want to mess anything up in the process.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
I drilled into the side of mine as well but not badly. There is a oil passage that you may have exposed by setting the seal too deep. Did you use one of the special tools for that or did you measure? Did you take any pictures of the damage or how you set the seal? If you clean it well, the RTV should do the job by smearing the outside of the seal before setting it. Use a q-tip to clean any excess off.

You are better off just disassembling the FD from the swing arm. I don't recall anyone successfully reattaching it and many have asked if it can be done.
 

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I did the same, I used a tube of liquid seal from the auto store, let it set then carefully sand papered the high spot worked great and no leaks. As said make sure that seal is at the correct depth.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks guys.

I marked a socket to get the depth to the same approx position as the old one.

Is there really an oil passageway on the clutch rod? I know there's one on the output shaft but that one seems to be holding.

I'll check is I have a picture of the installed seal. Here's a pic of the original one, does the depth look OK? Can it be left flush with the housing?

I'll take the FD off too.
 

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Thanks guys.

I marked a socket to get the depth to the same approx position as the old one.

Is there really an oil passageway on the clutch rod? I know there's one on the output shaft but that one seems to be holding.

I'll check is I have a picture of the installed seal. Here's a pic of the original one, does the depth look OK? Can it be left flush with the housing?

I'll take the FD off too.
The oil passage way is in the side of the housing. I have a pic of a badly damaged housing from someone who thought a friend could do it better and damaged it badly. You can see the area that the side of the seal must block. If set too deep, it will leak around the seal edge. They did get it to seal though. Have a look and see if yours is as bad as this :)

I have the seal driver if you feel you need one. It is counter sunk 187 thousandths according to the tools construction PDF so no, it isn't flush.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The oil passage way is in the side of the housing. I have a pic of a badly damaged housing from someone who thought a friend could do it better and damaged it badly. You can see the area that the side of the seal must block. If set too deep, it will leak around the seal edge. They did get it to seal though. Have a look and see if yours is as bad as this :)

I have the seal driver if you feel you need one. It is counter sunk 187 thousandths according to the tools construction PDF so no, it isn't flush.
Thanks again. That picture explains a lot. Forgot to take my shop camera memory card, pretty sure I took an "after" pic of the area.

Thanks for the offer to borrow the tool too, I'll gladly take it to avoid doing this for the third time. I'll PM you for details.
 

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Thanks again. That picture explains a lot. Forgot to take my shop camera memory card, pretty sure I took an "after" pic of the area.

Thanks for the offer to borrow the tool too, I'll gladly take it to avoid doing this for the third time. I'll PM you for details.
PM received. Did you drill the weep hole while you had it apart? If so, was that how you knew it was leaking again? Also, was this seal leaking before you did the replacement? I can see in your picture that the output shaft appears to have been leaking some before you replaced it but the slave space looks fairly dry so was this an I am in there so I am going to replace it? Not altogether a bad idea as the new seal ( the orange one) is supposed to be resistant to brake fluid as well as the gear lube it normally comes in contact with.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
PM received. Did you drill the weep hole while you had it apart? If so, was that how you knew it was leaking again? Also, was this seal leaking before you did the replacement? I can see in your picture that the output shaft appears to have been leaking some before you replaced it but the slave space looks fairly dry so was this an I am in there so I am going to replace it? Not altogether a bad idea as the new seal ( the orange one) is supposed to be resistant to brake fluid as well as the gear lube it normally comes in contact with.
First of all, thanks for borrowing the seal driver, Gordon. Highly appreciated and makes me proud to a part of this obviously awesome community.

The picture was taken before I replaced both seals and the slave cylinder and yes, I drilled the weep holes while I was at it. That's how I spotted the leak.
Took it apart again on Saturday to get the seal out, unfortunately forgot to take a picture before I yanked it out to show the depth but it looked like it was a good couple of millimeters too deep.
The picture attached was taken just after I got the seal out, you can kinda see the drill "gouge" in the upper corner. The other pic shows the RTV patch on the seal, doen't look like it was leaking from there..
 

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First of all, thanks for borrowing the seal driver, Gordon. Highly appreciated and makes me proud to a part of this obviously awesome community.

The picture was taken before I replaced both seals and the slave cylinder and yes, I drilled the weep holes while I was at it. That's how I spotted the leak.
Took it apart again on Saturday to get the seal out, unfortunately forgot to take a picture before I yanked it out to show the depth but it looked like it was a good couple of millimeters too deep.
The picture attached was taken just after I got the seal out, you can kinda see the drill "gouge" in the upper corner. The other pic shows the RTV patch on the seal, doen't look like it was leaking from there..
No problem on lending the seal drivers. There are several sets floating around with postage as the only cost for usage.

As for the damage to the case, you got it pretty good but not as bad as the person across the pond I posted earlier. I think that will seal with sealer as your picture shows and you can clearly see the oil passage now.

It is a difficult seal to drill to remove as you found out and also a tight place to try and clean well to fill and fix. Your choice to try and fill that with some J&B or just rely on sealer. You might try filling the gouge with sealer flush with the side of the casing before setting the seal so you know it is full but it looks like that happened whatever way you did it last time.

As deep as the seal was, it looks like the gouge was extending the length of the seal. That may not be the case if it isn't as deep when set using the tool. I don't think you are in too bad shape though. Good luck and keep the tool for a short while after you are done to verify no leaks. I don't have anyone in the pipeline at the moment needing that tool or the entire set.
 
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Discussion Starter #10
No problem on lending the seal drivers. There are several sets floating around with postage as the only cost for usage.

As for the damage to the case, you got it pretty good but not as bad as the person across the pond I posted earlier. I think that will seal with sealer as your picture shows and you can clearly see the oil passage now.

It is a difficult seal to drill to remove as you found out and also a tight place to try and clean well to fill and fix. Your choice to try and fill that with some J&B or just rely on sealer. You might try filling the gouge with sealer flush with the side of the casing before setting the seal so you know it is full but it looks like that happened whatever way you did it last time.

As deep as the seal was, it looks like the gouge was extending the length of the seal. That may not be the case if it isn't as deep when set using the tool. I don't think you are in too bad shape though. Good luck and keep the tool for a short while after you are done to verify no leaks. I don't have anyone in the pipeline at the moment needing that tool or the entire set.
Thanks for the encouraging words too. We'll see how it holds after I put it back. Good idea on pre-filling the gouge, definitely gonna do that.
I'll run it in gear for a while before putting the slave cylinder on to see if it starts to leak and if if does, exactly where.
 

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Thanks for the encouraging words too. We'll see how it holds after I put it back. Good idea on pre-filling the gouge, definitely gonna do that.
I'll run it in gear for a while before putting the slave cylinder on to see if it starts to leak and if if does, exactly where.
Been looking closely at your pictures and from what I see, your seal was indeed too deep. It is tough to draw a straight line on a curved surface but I think you will get the idea. If I extend the line from the oil passage across to the gouge, and then look at the pattern left on your seal from the sealant, I see that the top has a straight line and not a curved one like the top of the gouge. I think you simply exposed the top of the oil passage and that is why it leaked.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Been looking closely at your pictures and from what I see, your seal was indeed too deep. It is tough to draw a straight line on a curved surface but I think you will get the idea. If I extend the line from the oil passage across to the gouge, and then look at the pattern left on your seal from the sealant, I see that the top has a straight line and not a curved one like the top of the gouge. I think you simply exposed the top of the oil passage and that is why it leaked.
Checked the pic again myself and totally agree. If only I had known to ask for the tool the first time..

Oh well, live and learn I guess.

It's pretty hard to see in there even though I had the throttle side pannier off when I did it the first time. It's a bit easier to see what's going on in the photo because I can cram the phone in there pretty close. Gotta do that again once I get the new seal installed :wink:

Thanks again!!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Got the tool from Gordon and new seal off Amazon (couldn't wait for the local dealer to get one) and installed it over the weekend. Looks OK to me and didn't leak when I ran it on 5th gear for like 15 minutes.
Since I'm a dumb-ass, I pulled the clutch (force of habit I guess) when I put it in gear with the slave cylinder still hanging by the side. Once it made a fairly loud "pop", I knew I just added a considerable amount of extra work and possibly broke the brand new slave cylinder. Darn. Luckily there was no damage and the internals went back in easily, guess the cir-clip retaining groove has a little chamfer for idiots like me to prevent the housing from breaking.

I also learned that you do not have to loosen up the exhaust to get the swingarm on/off..

Anyhoo, here's a pic with the new seal, it's not even near as deep as the "old" one. Gordon; I'll mail the seal driver back to you as soon as I get a few road miles to verify it doesn't leak for reals. It'll some time later this week. Awesome tool btw., thanks once more.
 

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Got the tool from Gordon and new seal off Amazon (couldn't wait for the local dealer to get one) and installed it over the weekend. Looks OK to me and didn't leak when I ran it on 5th gear for like 15 minutes.
Since I'm a dumb-ass, I pulled the clutch (force of habit I guess) when I put it in gear with the slave cylinder still hanging by the side. Once it made a fairly loud "pop", I knew I just added a considerable amount of extra work and possibly broke the brand new slave cylinder. Darn. Luckily there was no damage and the internals went back in easily, guess the cir-clip retaining groove has a little chamfer for idiots like me to prevent the housing from breaking.

I also learned that you do not have to loosen up the exhaust to get the swingarm on/off..

Anyhoo, here's a pic with the new seal, it's not even near as deep as the "old" one. Gordon; I'll mail the seal driver back to you as soon as I get a few road miles to verify it doesn't leak for reals. It'll some time later this week. Awesome tool btw., thanks once more.
Looks good Janne. You are not the first person to pop the slave apart by pulling the clutch with it unmounted. Still no hurry on the return. Having the proper tool even though you can get it done without it saves the hassle of what you went through by making it almost fool proof. A shout out to Scouter-50 for making the drawings that Panzer used to make that tool and to him for letting me keep them to lend out as necessary.
 
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Discussion Starter #15
This thing just keeps fighting me.. Rode it to work yesterday and as was about to leave for home when I noticed the all too familiar puddle of transmission oil next to the center stand. Crap on a crud! (I did use stronger expletives at the time). It leaks worse now than it did before.

The only explanation I can think of at this point is that I somehow managed to nick the axle when I was drilling the seal the first time and it then scraped the lip off the oil seal. This is pretty hard to detect since you really can't see in there and even my little finger is too thick to fit between the axle and the housing. I'll try to confirm this once I get the swing arm off once again.

Oh well, gotta order a couple more oil seals and get back to work. If it turns out to be the nicked axle, I hope I can smooth it out with fine grid sandpaper somehow.

If anyone has ideas what else could be going on here, I'm all ears.
 

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This thing just keeps fighting me.. Rode it to work yesterday and as was about to leave for home when I noticed the all too familiar puddle of transmission oil next to the center stand. Crap on a crud! (I did use stronger expletives at the time). It leaks worse now than it did before.

The only explanation I can think of at this point is that I somehow managed to nick the axle when I was drilling the seal the first time and it then scraped the lip off the oil seal. This is pretty hard to detect since you really can't see in there and even my little finger is too thick to fit between the axle and the housing. I'll try to confirm this once I get the swing arm off once again.

Oh well, gotta order a couple more oil seals and get back to work. If it turns out to be the nicked axle, I hope I can smooth it out with fine grid sandpaper somehow.

If anyone has ideas what else could be going on here, I'm all ears.
Bummer! I assume there is no doubt it is gear lube and not brake fluid from popping the MC apart with possible damage to the MC seal lip? The slave seal looked pretty good so take some more pictures of the seal and lip as you remove it this time. You should be able to turn the tranny and get the shaft to move so you can get a look at all sides of it.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Bummer is right :( It doesn't smell of feel like brake fluid so I'm pretty sure it's tranny oil.
I'll take some pics once I get it apart again.
 

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Bummer is right :( It doesn't smell of feel like brake fluid so I'm pretty sure it's tranny oil.
I'll take some pics once I get it apart again.
If you have the time, you can get a good fan and set it in front of the bike, strap the center stand so it can't collapse and dry out the hole and run it for a while to see where it is leaking before you pull it. Any gear should do at idle. If it is as bad as you say, you should be able to see it leak either from the edges or around the center in a reasonable amount of time. The tranny fluid should be readily identified by the smell. I hate that smell. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #19
That's an awesome idea, I'll do that.
Thanks!
 

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This thing just keeps fighting me.. Rode it to work yesterday and as was about to leave for home when I noticed the all too familiar puddle of transmission oil next to the center stand. Crap on a crud! (I did use stronger expletives at the time). It leaks worse now than it did before.

The only explanation I can think of at this point is that I somehow managed to nick the axle when I was drilling the seal the first time and it then scraped the lip off the oil seal. This is pretty hard to detect since you really can't see in there and even my little finger is too thick to fit between the axle and the housing. I'll try to confirm this once I get the swing arm off once again.

Oh well, gotta order a couple more oil seals and get back to work. If it turns out to be the nicked axle, I hope I can smooth it out with fine grid sandpaper somehow.

If anyone has ideas what else could be going on here, I'm all ears.
If you did end up knicking up the drive shaft, there may be an alternative solution to having to purchase a new one. My buddy got into picking up old boats and getting them back up and running.....why?....he kinda enjoyed it for some reason. Regardless, one of the issues he ran into was that the drive shaft on the outdrive would often wear a grove into the shaft on the Volvo Penta 110 drives. Replacing with new wasn't an option as you could practically put on a whole new drive for the cost of just the drive shaft. Long story short, he found a company that he was able to send the shaft too, and they used some process to put ceramic into the grove and then re-turn it to original specs. If I remember right, it was around a couple of bones to get it done. If you want, I can inquire about the company and pass along the info?
 
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