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Clutch Slipping??

5K views 33 replies 22 participants last post by  bandera 
#1 ·
Today I took a 300-mile jaunt in east Texas and noticed on hard acceleration that I was getting some clutch slipping above 5K rpms. The bike is a 2017 R1200RT with 17K miles on it. It has led a pretty easy life and has no power mods. Last week I finished up my annual maintenance and otherwise, the bike is running great. Before I start buying clutch plates, I thought I would ask for some opinions.
I have made no
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adjustments to the clutch lever and it engages about halfway through the range.
The only thing that comes to mind is the oil. It is the same oil I have always used and never caused problems before.
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#5 ·
It is the same oil I have always used and never caused problems before.
You really screwed the pooch... Because the bike's clutch is in the SAME oil, it HAS to be motorcycle specific with the correct additives for the clutch. Cars generally have dry clutches so the oil used in their engines does not make a difference. Just because it is fully synthetic, it does mean it is right. You will be lucky to have your clutch recover with an oil change to the correct grade and type.
 
#9 ·
Since there are almost NO incidents of clutch slippage in these bikes, and your clutch lever still feels the same ( yes, hydraulic self adjusts but there would still be a different feel if plates are bad), I think this may be one of the rare cases where friction modifiers have effected the plates. I would change to a JASO rated oil and run that for a while. Maybe change that early. Not sure if it will "fix" itself with just oil changes, but worth trying.
 
#16 ·
Agree with all. Synthetic oil can be made so slick that wet clutches won't work right. There are even sometimes engine roller bearings that require a certain amount of "unslickness" to work properly. Too slick and the axle just turns without the balls roatating.

Agree that you should change to moto oil ASAP. The clutch may come back but it may take a while. I had the same thing happen with an Aprilia with wet clutch. Tried to use synth and it started to slip. I changed back to moto rated dino oil and it got better, but still some slipping. I ended up changing to a Barnett clutch and that fixed it. Wet clutches need wet clutch oil!
 
#17 ·
Generally speaking any oil to be used in a motorcycle engine/gearbox/wet clutch has to be a 4T oil. I'm not sure about JASO requirements. I worked in a major oil company Friction and Wear Lab for 24 years. 90% of our friction testing was in support of developing additive packages for ATF fluids. I honesty believe that developing automatic transmission fluids makes engine oil development look like kindergarten. The myriad of different frction materials used in automatic transmissions is mind boggling. Then throw in lock up torque converter clutches. The steel materials and how they interact with the friction materials used is another factor. Just changing the roughness of the steels can raise hell with how an auto trans shifts.

We also did our share of testing in support of development of add packs for 4T oils. The 4T oil has to satisfy the engines requirements for lubricaton, anti oxidation. anti wear, anti friction for optimum fuel economy PLUS work in the gearbox PLUS have the correct friction characteristics for the wet clutch! YEP: friction modifiers are all important.

How do you think your car or motorcycle engine would do if you put ATF in the crankcase? Probably better than putting synthetic engine oil in your Beemer's wet clutch. If your clutches friction plates are glazed you'll probably have to replace them.

Just My 2 cents worth.

Just My 2 centsc
eorth
 
#19 ·
I use this USED TO BE cheap stuff... about $40 for a 6 pack. Now is $53 per 6 pack... Its $20.96 per quart ($0.66 per oz) if you buy just one... OUCH

It has the T4 and JASO MA-2 rating. Works well. Get a 6 pack from Amazon

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#30 ·
Hmmm, I disagree with his assertion that "in a pinch", it's fine to use a quality auto oil with matching viscosity. Yeah, it may not do your engine any harm, but clutch jobs can be expensive and a pain in the rear. I wouldn't trust my bike's clutch if it had auto oil in it, even for 200 miles. Of course, replacing an engine is a lot more $involved$ than a clutch, so from that perspective, if getting you to a place that sells the bike oil you need without destroying your engine is worth the cost of a clutch, then auto oil it is. Me, I'll just carry that extra quart of oil with me on trips.
 
#31 · (Edited)
Well, I thought I would finish up this thread. The clutch is now running like new. No slippage at all. What happened? I replaced the friction disks with new ones and filled the motor with proper MOTORCYCLE oil.

As stated before the old friction plates even with the old oil replaced continued to slip. I probably could have replaced the oil a dozen times and the result would have been the same. Whatever was in the car oil had done its damage and it wasn't going to fix itself. It is my belief that the bad actor had been fully absorbed by the friction plates and wasn't going to come out. I believe that even if I had removed all the plates and soaked them all in solvent and then reinstalled them, I probably would have only slowed down the demise of the clutch; not have fixed the problem. Since tearing down the clutch is a pretty big job, I elected to instaul all new clutch disks and get the job done right. Earlier this week the complete clutch plate set came in and I began the task. On removing the old plates, I could see nothing obviously wrong with them. There was no tell tail odor. The friction and steel plates actually looked pretty good. There was very little wear and no burned or glazed steel plates. There was no evidence that the clutch had been slipping. The stack of friction plates was within BMW recommendations.

Upon installing the new plates, I found that the new steel plates did not fit
:87:


Rather than wait two more weeks, I opted to go with the old steel disks, as I saw no damage and the thicknesses were within spec. I soaked the old steel disks first in gasoline and then abraded them with a ScotchBrite pad. After that they were rinsed in paint thinner. The new fiber disks were soaked in new motorcycle oil for about an hour. Everything was then assembled per the BMW manual. Upon final assembly, I did have a hitch with the hydraulic clutch, which was ironed out.

Finally, everything was functioning properly. I buttoned everything up and installed fresh synthetic motorcycle oil. Initially the bike would go through all the gears, but would not go into neutral when the motor running. That corrected itself after about an hour's worth of running. During that ride, I did my best to cause the clutch to slip. It now only slips if I depress the clutch lever
:5210:


I have learned my lesson: Only run motorcycle oil in a motorcycle engine! Back in the old days one could get away with it, but times and technology have changed.


Some thoughts: I doubt that even a professional could determine if the wrong oil was used, without a chemical analysis. If bad oil is introduced, the only proper solution is probably replacing the disks. Removing and retorqueing the upper two screws on the clutch cover is a royal bitch. It either requires removing the front end of the motorcycle or some ingenious special tool. I probably spent an hour on just those two screws. Before starting work on your clutch, become very familiar on the workings of the hydraulic clutch assembly.
 
#32 ·
Thanks for the update. I once got a ticket for not wearing a seat belt. I complained to my uncle about it. His response: Do you wear it now? I said yes. His next reply was priceless: Aren’t the police wonderful teachers?

A jug of car oil is a great way to learn a very valuable lesson, for all of us!
 
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