BMW Luxury Touring Community banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
634 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
was preparing to drill my clutch slave weep hole today and found a 2 fold problem...
both the slave cylinder and the rear seal are leaking. it is mostly the rear seal... but I also have some crystalized brake fluid remnants on the upper half of the inner hole...

luckily, the pushrod is dry ... I think I caught this just in time...

Questions: I am not comfortable with the slave cylinder.... should I buy a new one or do they sell a rebuild kit for it?

also, would anyone have the part # for the rear seal? ( the small seal in the rear of the hole)

thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
634 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
Heres a picture of the carnage... :(
2002 with 50,000 miles.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,181 Posts
not too costly to replace it, not worth rebuilding.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,106 Posts
John,

I got a new slave cyl from Beemer Boneyard for under a C note. I think it was better than trying a rebuild.

The part # for the seal is 23 12 7 705 085 17x28x7

Hope this helps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
634 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Boatzo said:
John,

I got a new slave cyl from Beemer Boneyard for under a C note. I think it was better than trying a rebuild.

The part # for the seal is 23 12 7 705 085 17x28x7

Hope this helps.
thanks... is that the new #?

I was undecided on either :
231 277 050 85
or
231 276 560 19
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,106 Posts
John,

That is the newest BMW P/N. I ordered mine from the dealership in Dec. 2010.

BTW, the boneyard slave comes with a gasket and the 2 seals for the line connectors.
 

·
Registered
1999 LTC
Joined
·
14,456 Posts
Buy yourself a birthday present, John. Replacement means you might not be going back in there again - - - for awhile, at least!! ;)

HAPPY BIRTHDAY - tamale. 105 ain't bad!!! :histerica
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
634 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Dick said:
Buy yourself a birthday present, John. Replacement means you might not be going back in there again - - - for awhile, at least!! ;)

HAPPY BIRTHDAY - tamale. 105 ain't bad!!! :histerica
Your a funny guy, Dick...

feb 27 is my birthday...
but I'm only 46....

a youngun around here,....

:dance:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
634 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
About this rear seal....
Is there another seal behind that seal?


this seal was a pain in the azz to remove...
I finally got it out with dry wall screws, but had to drill multiple holes...
It finally popped out, but looks like there is another black seal a bit deeper...

anyone?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
634 Posts
Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
here is a picture of the seal I pulled out...
and also a picture of what is remaining ...
looks to be a seal... possibly from the inside?
I chewed it up trying to get the dang outside seal out...
I'm not sure if it part of the rear seal or not...

anyway...

any help is greatly appr.

hopefully I wont need to pull the tranny to fix a $2.00 inner seal..

I have never had such a pain in the *** trying to get a stupid seal out. :mad:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Uploaded with ImageShack.us
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
634 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Ok...
apparently I didn't get the entire seal out...

not surprising as it was such a pian in the a** to get out...

funny...
I'm working in the garage with the laptop on the bench.... John Z's weep hole video is guiding me step by step.... every bolt came out easy as cake.... just like the video...

then came the dasterdly seal... :mad:

anyway...

I think I got it sorted...
hopefully I didn't put any scratches in the surface where the seal sits...
I stuffed the shaft hole and gave it a good cleaning/steel wool. etc.
you guys need to stay up ater on the weekends...
I'm trying to do an inter-active service over here... ;)

anyway...

pictures coming up .. as soon as I get back in the house...
hopefully my ramblings will help someone in the future...

I'll suggest this...
if you own an LT with 30-40k miles...
i would highly suggest you check the slave and rear seal...
:toast:

I'm about ready to put the tools away and have a whisky and soda.... :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,106 Posts
John,

I had similar problems removing the seal. I used 2 dry wall screws and then a pry bar and piece of wood to pry the seal out. I could not pull it out with vice grips. Several times the screws pulled out as well.

Be very careful when reinstalling the new seal to get it seated at the correct depth. I used John Z's suggestion of a 21mm deep socket with masking tape to indicate the correct depth. I also measured the depth before I removed the seal.

One of the biggest problems I had with the project was on putting everything back together, I had one He** of a time aligning the forward end of the drive shaft and getting it to snap in. I finally had to order a new snap ring for the thing as I think I damaged the old one by using too much force trying to get it seated.

Glad you got it sorted out. Good luck on the rest of your project.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
634 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Boatzo said:
Be very careful when reinstalling the new seal to get it seated at the correct depth. I used John Z's suggestion of a 21mm deep socket with masking tape to indicate the correct depth. I also measured the depth before I removed the seal.
.
welp...
I'm embarassed to say I did NOT measure the depth before hand... :(

Is the masking tape still on your 21mm socket? :histerica

I love the fancy installation tool John Z used in the video..

anyone have the dimensions of the tool or the correct depth info.. so I can mark up a 21mm socket or have a tool made..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,106 Posts
John,

I posted this on the wrong thread, here it is again from a post I did erlier on the same subject:

quote: Re: Problem removing swing arm bearing journal
Loren, Yes I am getting my money's worth out of that lift (and my wood stove). I wish I had gotten the lift a long time ago. My knees and back are much better.

Pastor Jack and John Z, I followed John's instructions in the video and put masking tape on a 21 mm deep socket and marked it. Also measured the depth before removal and it is just a little over 37mm. Remeasured several times as I was installing the seal till I got 37 mm. I had a caliper with a depth rod that I use to use for reloading and trimming shell casings. I drilled the weep hole yesterday with no problems although I was very apprehensive about getting started. The whole process has been interesting and again, John's video and the pdf file on the same subject, have been invaluable. Thanks to all.

John, I like your idea on heating the pivot bearing inner races, I'll try that. Otherwise I think using a socket will save time. I get some things from HF but the nearest store is 60 miles away and I sometimes order on line, but if I can use what I have all the better.
__________________
Bill Cornpropst
Eastern Virginia (Middle Peninsula)
K3ZXV
99 K1200LT Basalt Gray "DELILAH"
99 R1100RT Glacier Green (SOLD )


Hope this helps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
634 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
pondering a few thoughts/questions...

where do most seal leaks occur... in the middle area where it goes around the pushrod tube?
OR do they ever leak around the seal itself.. the "race" for lack of a better term...

also,
the weep hole seems like it would work well to indicate a seal leak....
but has anyone found that it does infact work to indicate a brake fluid leak from the slave cyl.?

don't get me wrong, it seems like a great idea on paper... and mine is drilled, but I got to thinking...
If the slave leaks...
what is to prevent the fluid from following down the pushrod anyway... ?
the weep hole will only work if the fluid falls off the rod or slave cyl... and ends up in the weep hole...

your thoughts?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
467 Posts
Concerning the installed depth of the seal, check This thread. Post 13 has an answer and 16 has the tool dimensions and good information throughout the thread. One caveat tho, of the few I've had apart, none have had the same depth. Boatzo gives a figure of 37 mm and those I have replaced have been done at 1.5 in. depth without any issues. I'm sure both dimensions are fine to use. If you study the housing bore you will see why they leak if seated too deep.

Good luck

Duane
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,165 Posts
johnT said:
pondering a few thoughts/questions...

where do most seal leaks occur... in the middle area where it goes around the pushrod tube?
OR do they ever leak around the seal itself.. the "race" for lack of a better term...

also,
the weep hole seems like it would work well to indicate a seal leak....
but has anyone found that it does infact work to indicate a brake fluid leak from the slave cyl.?

don't get me wrong, it seems like a great idea on paper... and mine is drilled, but I got to thinking...
If the slave leaks...
what is to prevent the fluid from following down the pushrod anyway... ?
the weep hole will only work if the fluid falls off the rod or slave cyl... and ends up in the weep hole...

your thoughts?
Seal leaks are almost always where the seal wears, against the shaft.

The brake fluid from the slave cylinder will leak past the piston seal, around the piston, into the cylinder bore and down from the nose of the cylinder housing into the cavity. It has to build up to the level of the hole the push rod goes through to be forced down the bore to the front of the transmission.

The drain hole will allow it to escape long before it can get high enough in the cavity to reach the hole. It cannot even touch the rod until it gets that high.

I still think a large number, if not most slave cylinder failures are because of the little bearing in the front of the piston getting rough or seizing, which spins the piston in the cylinder, pretty much instant failure then.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,106 Posts
That is an interesting link Duane, I wish I had seen it before I did the project. However all seems to be working well with the way I did it. As I recall, I think I measured the slave as well and it was 35mm, but that is a 2 month memory gap so I can't be sure. One thing that your post made me think about was, IS THE EXISTING DEPTH OF THE OLD SEAL CORRECT? Suppose it was replaced previously and not seated correctly. (always worrying and being the devil's advocate). So your data is very helpful for the future.

John, David pretty well sums up the reason for the weep hole (says it better than I was going to say). I will add that if you get fluid weeping from the hole later on, hopefully you can tell if it is oil or DOT4 so you will know what seal is leaking. When I disassembled mine, I found a small amount of transmission oil in the cavity so it was the shaft seal leaking. The slave was good and dry, but on advice from one of our members, I replaced it anyway. I still have the old one, guess I am a horder.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
634 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
dshealey said:
The brake fluid from the slave cylinder will leak past the piston seal, around the piston, into the cylinder bore and down from the nose of the cylinder housing into the cavity. It has to build up to the level of the hole the push rod goes through to be forced down the bore to the front of the transmission.
Thanks, It makes more sense after your explaination.

I still think a large number, if not most slave cylinder failures are because of the little bearing in the front of the piston getting rough or seizing, which spins the piston in the cylinder, pretty much instant failure then.
I agree.
as I wrote in another post, the bearing on the end of my slave was sloppy and the bearing on the new slave was nice and tight.
...........................
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top