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Discussion Starter #1
Thinking about getting off synthetic. Been using synthetic for about 30,000+ miles. The scooter is a 2000 with about 55K on her.

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

Kimble
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Wrencher Extraordinaire
2005 K1200LT
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It is a tough habit to kick!!!

I don't see any issues with switching back. I gave it some serious thought when I picked up four quarts of Mobil 1 out in CA for 9.95 each - ouch.
 

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Should not be a problem.
 

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First I would have to ask WHY? The only advantage I can see is cost. You can go more miles between oil changes with synthetic at a higher cost for the product. IMHO, a liquid cooled engine will do just fine on DINO oil, but I would change oil more frequently, just about a wash on cost :D
 

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Old Slow Guy in A Fast Car
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Boatzo said:
First I would have to ask WHY? The only advantage I can see is cost. You can go more miles between oil changes with synthetic at a higher cost for the product. IMHO, a liquid cooled engine will do just fine on DINO oil, but I would change oil more frequently, just about a wash on cost :D
Plus 1
Synthetic oil @ $9.00 to $10.00 per quart (Average price)= 6000 miles
Dino oil @ $4.00 to $5.00 per quart (again average price) = 3000 miles
Same protection from both types = same cost.
The main thing is that YOU CHANGE your oil at regular intervals.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Well shucks...

I've been changing my oil too often. I've been running about 3000-4000 miles on synthetic.
Maybe I'm just that dense. I did not know one can go 6000K.

Thanks for all the good info guys.

Kimble
 

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Enjoy The Ride
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I change mine every 6000 miles regardless of the type of oil. I just grab the nearest oil I have. Yesterday it was 15w40 Mobil Delvac Dino. The change before that was Mobil 1 15w50 Syn. & before that it was Mobil 1 20w50 V-Twin Syn. I'll probably throw in some 5w40 Mobil 1 Syn. on my next change for the winter.
 

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Hi Neel,

I enjoyed talking to you today !!!

There are two critical differences between synthetic and mineral oil.
Synthetics are a much much smaller molecule substance, being able to penetrate into the invisible crevices of metals....which are there, no matter how finely they are machined, but are clearly visible under a microscope. This offers better protection that mineral oil can not match.
Secondly, minerals oils scavange the dirt particles-be it burnt carbon or otherwise and never let go. With synthetic--if after your oil change, you allowed it to settle down a day or two, you will see that it tends to get clear and all the scum settled to the bottom. You should be able to re-use most of this if you carefully poured it off. Try it, you'll be amazed.
 

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KJN said:
Thinking about getting off synthetic. Been using synthetic for about 30,000+ miles. The scooter is a 2000 with about 55K on her.

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

Kimble
Phoenix
How many miles do you ride a year? I would not run any oil much longer than 1 year. A good dino oil will easily go 6,000 miles in a modern liquid cooled engine. I rarely ride more than 6K per year (hopefully, that will change when I retire) so I use dino in my LT even though I am a synthetic fan and have used it in my cars and trucks for 30 years now. If I rode 10K miles a year, I would consider synthetic and change it once a year or at 10K miles whichever came first.
 

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lesn said:
Hi Neel,

I enjoyed talking to you today !!!

There are two critical differences between synthetic and mineral oil.
Synthetics are a much much smaller molecule substance, being able to penetrate into the invisible crevices of metals....which are there, no matter how finely they are machined, but are clearly visible under a microscope. This offers better protection that mineral oil can not match.
Secondly, minerals oils scavange the dirt particles-be it burnt carbon or otherwise and never let go. With synthetic--if after your oil change, you allowed it to settle down a day or two, you will see that it tends to get clear and all the scum settled to the bottom. You should be able to re-use most of this if you carefully poured it off. Try it, you'll be amazed.
I would like to know the source of your information on molecule size of synthetic vs. dino. I have never seen this claim before and actually nearly the opposite. Dino oil has a wide range of molecule sizes whereas synthetic has much more uniform molecules. However, one of the issues with dino is that at high temps the smaller molecules burn off being more volatile than the large ones. I find it hard to believe that synthetics could both have very small molecules yet also have much better high temp performance. However, I am always open to new data, but what you posted here is contrary to everything I have read about synthetics.
 

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Voyager said:
How many miles do you ride a year? I would not run any oil much longer than 1 year. A good dino oil will easily go 6,000 miles in a modern liquid cooled engine. I rarely ride more than 6K per year (hopefully, that will change when I retire) so I use dino in my LT even though I am a synthetic fan and have used it in my cars and trucks for 30 years now. If I rode 10K miles a year, I would consider synthetic and change it once a year or at 10K miles whichever came first.
Exactly, changing dino oil at 3K intervals is crazy talk, unless the bike has been operated under severe conditions or getting close to a year since last change.
 

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Gizmo1137 said:
Exactly, changing dino oil at 3K intervals is crazy talk, unless the bike has been operated under severe conditions or getting close to a year since last change.
Or is a tired old air-cooled engine with lots of blow-by. :)

Probably a few other circumstances that would warrant 3K intervals, but for an engine like in the LT, that is just a complete waste of oil unless the engine is really worn badly with low compression and rings that are shot.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Voyager said:
How many miles do you ride a year? I would not run any oil much longer than 1 year. A good dino oil will easily go 6,000 miles in a modern liquid cooled engine. I rarely ride more than 6K per year (hopefully, that will change when I retire) so I use dino in my LT even though I am a synthetic fan and have used it in my cars and trucks for 30 years now. If I rode 10K miles a year, I would consider synthetic and change it once a year or at 10K miles whichever came first.

I ride about 6K per year.

Kimble
 

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Voyager said:
I would like to know the source of your information on molecule size of synthetic vs. dino. I have never seen this claim before and actually nearly the opposite. Dino oil has a wide range of molecule sizes whereas synthetic has much more uniform molecules. However, one of the issues with dino is that at high temps the smaller molecules burn off being more volatile than the large ones. I find it hard to believe that synthetics could both have very small molecules yet also have much better high temp performance. However, I am always open to new data, but what you posted here is contrary to everything I have read about synthetics.
I was merely speaking from personal experience.
In my other life, I was a technologist at factory--one of our machines was cammed at such high angle, that direct injection of oil-using 5 spray nosels was required to keep this machine from over heating and shuting down from expension. We have gone through 55 gallons of high quality oil every few weeks. I had never even heard about synthetic oil at that time ( 35-40 years ago) It was Duboi Chemicals that introduced me to their newly developed synthetic, with documentation to their test data and theory, backed by microscopic pictures and wear data,
I gave it a try and low and behold, not only did our consumption of lubricant went down by 75% , but the normal tear down to clean the equipment went from every 3 months to once a year. Furthermore, the spent oil which was collected, was so clean after settling, that we re-used 70% of it, versus the mineral which had to be discarded.
Granted, this was not in a motor but in a very sophisticated high speed manufacturing machine, running 24 hrs a day.
The main drive systems, where a motor..turning a main drive shaft and this shaft being supported withinn brass bushings, similarly, the life of these bushings were extended x4, once switched to synthetic lubrication.
Is there a difference amongst the synthetics? Quite possibly--I don't really know.
This is all I can offer you
 

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Discussion Starter #15
lesn said:
I was merely speaking from personal experience.
In my other life, I was a technologist at factory--one of our machines was cammed at such high angle, that direct injection of oil-using 5 spray nosels was required to keep this machine from over heating and shuting down from expension. We have gone through 55 gallons of high quality oil every few weeks. I had never even heard about synthetic oil at that time ( 35-40 years ago) It was Duboi Chemicals that introduced me to their newly developed synthetic, with documentation to their test data and theory, backed by microscopic pictures and wear data,
I gave it a try and low and behold, not only did our consumption of lubricant went down by 75% , but the normal tear down to clean the equipment went from every 3 months to once a year. Furthermore, the spent oil which was collected, was so clean after settling, that we re-used 70% of it, versus the mineral which had to be discarded.
Granted, this was not in a motor but in a very sophisticated high speed manufacturing machine, running 24 hrs a day.
The main drive systems, where a motor..turning a main drive shaft and this shaft being supported withinn brass bushings, similarly, the life of these bushings were extended x4, once switched to synthetic lubrication.
Is there a difference amongst the synthetics? Quite possibly--I don't really know.
This is all I can offer you
So there...

I'm going to run synthetic for 6K or 1 year, which ever comes first.

Thanks Les...

Kimble
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I pay - $7 per quart for synthetic, and UOA tells me to extend to 11,000 per change. For me, there'd be no reason to change.
 

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Just bought oil for a change yesterday, went Synthetic myself.... I found this interesting article that does a comparison on Syn vs. Petroleum in various categories, It's an easy two page read that should help you make a decision for yourself, one thing of note I found most enlightening was not all Synthetic oil is rated for extended use.

Happy reading.

Lube Notes 5 - Synthetic Versus Petroleum (The Lube Page.com )

-Preston
 

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Just an aside to this conversation, as most of you know, BMW only requires oil and changes every 6K (or once a year) with "dyno" oil of the specified grade and viscosity to be warranty compliant.

Engine materials and oil quality these days make the 3K oil changes a bit of an anachronism.

As for synthetic.....if I'm using synthetic in a particular bike or car....I often go way over 6K miles between changes and so far have seen no problems.

JD
 

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saddleman said:
I change mine every 6000 miles regardless of the type of oil. I just grab the nearest oil I have. Yesterday it was 15w40 Mobil Delvac Dino. The change before that was Mobil 1 15w50 Syn. & before that it was Mobil 1 20w50 V-Twin Syn. I'll probably throw in some 5w40 Mobil 1 Syn. on my next change for the winter.

You are such a renegade.....

changing oil types all the time like that.

I am surprised you bike even starts :)

I did notice that you run Mobil all the time. :dance:
 

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Excerpts from my soon to be released book...


So periodic oil and filter changes should still be done with synthetic oil; but some synthetic oil suppliers suggest that the intervals between oil changes can be longer, sometimes as long as 10,000 to 15,000 miles.

Tests show that fully synthetic oil is superior in extreme vehicle service conditions to conventional oil and they may perform better for longer periods under standard conditions. But in the vast majority of motorcycle engine applications, petroleum based lubricants, fortified with additives continue to be the primary lubricant.


and...

There is also no problem with switching back and forth between synthetic and petroleum based oils. In fact, people who are "in the know" and who operate engines in areas where temperature fluctuations can be especially extreme, switch from petroleum based to synthetic oils for the colder months. They then switch back to petroleum based oils during the warmer months.

In some racing circles, the wrenches in charge do a 4 to 1 mix of “dino” to synthetic in the race vehicles crank case. What you end up with is 75% of the synthetic oil's benefits when using high quality synthetic fluids. In fact, some shade tree mechanics have been doing it for years. They get the benefit of synthetics, but it costs 40% less.


So... rock on!!! I run a 9K rotation for changes in my cars. I have a 1996 Toy that has over 140K on that strategy... Still pulls better then some of the whiz-bang 6 cylinder models. The LT is now on a 10K rotation.

Then again... that's just me...
 
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