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Discussion Starter #1
I have not followed the sportbike scene for quite a while.....

I was inspired by the production of the BMW 1200 in line four and noticed all the hype on the horsepower and it was to be a "rice-eater" and so on, bla, bla, bla.

Well, I looked in to the hyped horsepower and found that the Susuki Hayabusa has 175 horsepower and I would suspect that the new Kawasaki ZZR1400 would take them both.

The question is, what makes the BMW sportbike superrior to these other Japanese productions bikes barring HP? :confused:

AND, where is the proof in that performance?
 

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that's a loaded question, stew. i know for sure that BMW does not build the fastest bike. but after, say, 160 or so, it's sorta academic, as long as you stick to public streets.

that's my opinion, anyway.
 

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S2DOG said:
The question is, what makes the BMW sportbike superrior to these other Japanese productions bikes barring HP? :confused:

AND, where is the proof in that performance?
Please don't confuse marketing hype with real world application of technology. I ride the K-R, not because it's the fastest. I ride it because it is PLENTY fast ..... AND......it has substantial passive safety features not present on the bikes you mentioned, or any other bike that I know of in that class.

So what if a Hayabusa can go 200 (assuming you remove the speed limiter that holds it to 174) and the K-S only goes 173, or the K-R at 160 mph? I have yet to get to the maximum speed on the K-R. Even if I did like to spend more time at the maximum, 160 mph for the roads that bike is going to ridden on is, to quote my riding buddies, "stupid fast".

I can ride the K-R faster, under like circumstances, than I would the bikes you named because of the built in technology that "forgives", or least minimizes the mistakes I may make. It's not to be relied upon, but it increases the margin of safety and that, for my money, puts the K-R/S at the top of the same league as those other bikes.


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Discussion Starter #4
All good points, but you are closer to the truth then the BMW ads are pointing towards.

My point is that they are using HP as if it were something more important than what you have pointed out.

Also one other thing I see is that the MSRP pricing of the Japanese bikes with "more" HP are extremely lower in cost than the BMW. If they are selling HP, then why would I want to spend an additional 5-8 grand for 10 more horsepower, saftey aside....
 

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Discussion Starter #5
You are exactly right in the respect that speed is relevant. My point is that BMW is "pushing" the HP thing and I would think they would be better represented to push technology and handling instead of muscle.
 

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Simple. BMW is trying to break into new markets. In this case, it's the hyper-sport-touring market. It isn't the crazy-super-sport market, as 167 HP and 550 lbs. isn't gonna compete with an R1 or GSXR. But they may have a shot at those considering a Hayabusa or ZZR.

And they're also trying to shake of their stodgy old reputation a bit as well. Not that any of us here mind capable, comfortable, reliable bikes, but we're already riding them so they need to go after fresh blood. You also see that in the new twin 800 series, though they also suffer from the BMW price tag.

Remember, BMW's yearly sales is just a tiny dribble to Harley, Honda, or any of the other Japanese manufacturers. They've got to go after younger, fresher riders, who buy new bikes regularly, instead of riders like us who keep their bikes for 10 years and a couple of hundred-thousand miles.

And horsepower is what gets you noticed, not safety features. Heck, even Volvo made a conscious decision to maintain safety and quality, but wrap it in newer, faster, more exciting designs. That didn't seem to hurt them at all.
 

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[humor]

Stew, Stew, Stew . . .

As always, I'm here to un-muddy the waters for you. Just follow the bouncing (OK...Fine! They're NOT really bouncing!) bullet points for the no-nonsense low-down on the sportbike scene!
  • What's up with your question, "Are we really that impressed with HP?"? Well...DuH! Every red-blooded American male is impressed with HP. If they say they're not, they are either lying, or they are a drag queen!
  • Of course BMW was hyping the HP of the 'S' bike. Finally, BMW has a bike with the same amount of HP as the Kawasaki ZX-11 . . . um . . . 1990 model. :eek: Wait until those Bavarians here about ... the "internet". ;)
  • The new Kawasaki is the "ZX-14" . . . NOT the ZZR1400. You live in the United States big guy! NOT the U.K..
    And at 196 HP, yes I'm guessing that it will take the 'S' bike with ease. *yawn*
  • Superior? What? The Beemer?!?!?! :D :D :D Now...THAT's funny! I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The 'S' can't hold a candle to the Suzuki Gixxer 1000, the Suzuki Hayabusa, the Kaw ZX-10R, the Kaw ZX-12R, the new Kaw ZX-14, The Yamaha R1, the Honda CBR1000RR, the Ducati 999, MV Agusta F4 1000, and a host of other exotics from Europe.
So why is BMW making the 'S' bike and trying to 'sell it' with HP hype? Simple. To sell it to the 35 to 55 crowd that simply wants to buy a "BMW Sportbike". And quite frankly, if I had the coin...I'd buy one in a half a heartbeat. (What a POSER!) :D

I can't just go away and NOT mention "that" suspension. That suspension is REALLY something special. I don't know why they aren't hyping that more. That suspension has the respect of a lot of sportbike riders. And if not "respect", than curiosity. And that's something that BMW hasn't peeked much of with the sportbike crowd.

[/humor]

(...but in every joke, there lies a lot of truth, eh?) ;)
 

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It's all about marketing, trying to increase market share. Surely you have noticed the more "in your face" ads at your dealer with the scruffy looking guys and chicks vs the refined look of old.
 

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If its all about HP for you - you need a new bike every year.
The Japs build faster AND lighter bikes than anyone else.

My LT is my first BMW - I bought it because I believe it is the best tourer on the market.
If I wanted to travel around the world I would buy a 1150 GS Adv.

I believe these are the bikes they do best.

If I wanted to travel at 180 I would buy a Jap bike.

Each to his own.

BMW marketing dept is trying to attract new riders - good for them.
Trying to compete in the sport or sport/tourer market is not so easy.
The GT and RS were never great bikes compared to the competition.
I haven't ridden the S but if I was in the market for that type of bike I would look very hard at the Jap bikes.
Half the price for better performance and maybe even better build.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Joe, yout thread replys YOU KNOW are going to make me laugh! :D You know me too well! LOL!

All good points and I see that I am not the only person out there who is not impressed with the HPO factor BMW is puching, but rather the suspension features and other design details on the bike.

I don't think I would lay out coin for one unless it had a better seating position. I would love to see the in line 4 in the sport touring line up that BMW manufactures, but not the LT. If that engine was part of the Sport-Touring bike BMW manufactures (I cant remember what they label it as) I would seriously consider one as an around town thriller, but I would not trade or sell the LT. It's too much fun for travel.

Maybe a more affordable used K-sport bike some day, but not a 19,000 dollar around town sport bike.
 

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Have you fellas seen the November Cycle World? Their "Speed Wagons" feature fits rather nicely with this thread. Sorry 'bout the Ninja's review Joe.
They don't think too much of the S' new front suspension either.
 

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Remember its not just HP , it is the power to weight ratio. Sport bikes with 180 HP 400 lbs , Now thats impressive.
Pete
 

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It's impressive for about an hour, then you just want to get off the thing.

Sure I've had more sporty bikes pass me in the twisties, but then again I'm still riding on the same tank of gas 200 miles later.

That's why I think the new S motor in a GT/RT package could be quite impressive, all day long.
 
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