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BMW recommends CASROL!

dshealey said:
The Castrol oil does have SH in the rating. And, nowhere does BMW state that one should use "Motorcycle" SH rated oil in the LT. The one email you had was useless, and did not state any BMW engineering mandated specification, just one misguided persons opinion. Later oils can still use the earlier designations if the oil has not changed in such a way as to no longer meet that standard. BMW stated no SJ rated oil when it first came out, and if I remember correctly SJ was the first API rating ever that was not fully backward compatible. Newer ratings on SOME oils however have re-instated the SH rating, which means that they now fulfill ALL requirements of SH, or they could not put it in the specification. So, using it FULLY and COMPLETELY fulfills BMW's stated oil specification for use in the LT.

Yes, I can and will use what oil I please, as will you. No problem with that at all. I do have an issue with your scare tactics trying to get people to use whatever brand you are pushing, when there is absolutely NO historical record whatsoever for the past 3 decades on the "K" engine that supports any need, or even any noticeable gain due to the "advantages" you state. Basically, if it ain't broke, there is no gain in "fixing" it. It is like someone to whom a size 9 shoe is perfectly comfortable thinking that a size 10 would be fantastic.

As I said, if I get a bike with the new K configuration, then I may consider Amsoil, IF it is available on a moments notice local to me, other wise I will use a high grade brand that meets the specs needed and more readily available, and have absolutely no qualms about it being good enough.

Now if there were actual INDEPENDENT tests (not sponsored by or run by any one oil company) that showed any significant measurable gains in any area that actually improved end performance of or lengthened the service life of the LT style engine due to oil used, then that would be more acceptable as a possible reason someone may wish to use it. Otherwise, it is all just wishful thinking and hot air overkill. Yes, a 30-06 will kill a squirrel, but why? Does it kill it any "better"? How many here will actually ever wear out an LT engine? Don Arthur had well over 300,000 miles on his, and it was still running just fine. Several have gone over 200,000 with no issues, mine looked and measured like it would have easily topped 200,000 if not for the detonation damaged pistons. What will Amsoil, or any other oil do to improve that, and how many riders here really care? I imagine out of the thousands of LTs on the road, only a handful will ever see much over 200,000 on them. Maybe the second, third, etc. owners will in a few years. Not many first owners will spend extra money to help out the later owners though.
[/QUOTE]TimVipondDavid, so did you really put 60,000 miles on a K1200LT with an API SM rated oil like you said you did? This is the issue. I don't know anyone that has. Nobody recommends an API SM rated car oil for a K1200LT except for you. I prefer to follow the recommendations of the engineers that built the engine and those that formulate the oil specifically for its use. The 2006 BMW manual does not recommend any car oil with the API SJ, SL or SM designation, even if it is SH. The new designation are formulation changes that BMW is not recommending. I don't see how you can say it is a "scare tactic" to recommend following what the manufacturer says.

I'm glad you brought up Don Arthur's bike. He used the BMW motorcycle oil at 15,000 mile oil changes. No API SJ, SL, SM. Just the manual specified API SF, SG, SH.[/QUOTE]


Gentlemen,

I have attached a scan of my BMW maintenance oil spec. pages for my 2006 LT.

Interesting enough it states at the bottom lower right “BMW recommends Castrol”.

Additionally it clearly states that “Proprietary HD oil, API classification SF, SG, OR (emphasis added) SH………..The word OR is important, as is “classification G4, OR G-5; suffix PD2 is allowable”.



We sure have veered from the original question from “Caper11I am also thinking about using an Amsoil oil filter. This filter is painted so it makes me a little apprehensive about using it. Should I use the BMW stock filter or would it be OK to use the Amsoil filter?”
 

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Castrol Syntec is what I run too. Here are the specs from their website:

SAE 20W-50: provides superior oil film strength and extreme high temperature protection. Exceeds all car and light truck manufacturer's warranty requirements for the protection of gasoline, diesel and turbocharged engines where API SM, SL, SJ, SH, CF or CD is recommended. Exceeds European ACEA: A3, B3, B4, and the engine protection requirements of GM 4718M, ILSAC GF-4 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils.

According to the BMW oil bulletin it's good to go.
 

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Maybe this will lighten the mood a bit?

I say we can be friendly as long as we don't start a Harley bashing thread, talk about how to brake, which oil/filter to use, whether the LT is a good starter bike, or if it's OK to hog the left lane when doing the speed limit. :)
 

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I'd like to add my 2-cents. I have used both Pennzoil 20-50w Motorcycle oil in both my 1998 R1100RT and my 2000 K1200LT. Aboulutely no issues. I changed to Amsoil and have had no issued. Point here is that I swithched back to Pennzoil Motorcycle 20-50w becasue it was cheaper and more readily available.

It appears to me, that unless BMWNA recommend a specific oil for specific issues, it does noe make a whole lot of sense to pay over $3.00 a qt when you can get the same protection for halt the cost. It is just a matter of personal preference.

I do agree with David, oil manufacturers must label correctly and insure backward compatibility when changing oil ratings and specifications..

Over and out.

OKU
 

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Sheesh, is it time for the winter oil flame fest already? Can't we all just agree, like we do with what tires are best? ;)

AMSOIL INC. is not responsible for wrong recommendations that were based on inaccurate or incomplete information.
That about covers it. :)
 

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API SF, SG, SH is not the same formulation as SH, SJ, SL, SM. They are back compatable for CAR requirements, but not motorcycle requirements. The SJ, SL, SM were formulation changes in friction modifiers that can cause wet clutches to slip (thus JASO MA and MB ratings were created in 1998) reduction in antiwear metals that can poison catalytic converters, as well as other formulation changes such as less resistance to shear that are not optimal to motorcycles. This is why it is stated in the 2006 BMW K1200LT and other motorcycle manuals to use SF, SG, SH only without the additional SJ, SL, SM. This is why Castrol's motorcycle oils are listed as SG ONLY. This is why Castrol's car oils are listed SM, SL, SJ, SH. This is why the BMW motorcycle bulletin states SJ is not to be used. This is why Castrol makes a different line of motorcycle and car oils. Not sure how Castrol can be more clear than this.

I was also trying to clarify if Mr. Healey had actually put 60,000 miles on the Castrol SM rated oil like he proudly stated as his personal recommendation. I didn't think he could have used that oil as the API SM oil came out after he broke and then wrecked his bike. Now he admits he is not sure, so I'm glad we cleared that up. I just wanted to make sure others did not take his recommendation as "gospel", because he likely did not even use his recomended API SM oil and because the K1200LT motorcycle manufacturers and motorcycle oil blenders certainly do not recommend and list API SM oils.

David also said, "why provide a fix for something that is not broken". I agree. Stick with the tried and true SF,SG and SH rated oils that nearly all of us have used in our K1200LT's since 1999 for millions of trouble free miles and be very cautious about using the API SM car oils that have only been around since Nov. 2004 that only a few are experimenting with in K1200LT's for thousands of miles. If you have any question whether a specific oil should be used in a K1200LT and it lies outside of the K1200LT owners manual, then ask BMW or the oil manufacturer. And let us know.
 

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BMW response to engine oil in K1200LT

Dear Mr. Vipond:

Thank you for contacting BMW Motorrad USA regarding your K 1200 LT. We appreciate your inquiry.

All BMW motorcycles imported by the USA come from the factory with petroleum based Castrol oil (20W50) in the crankcases. BMW Motorrad USA recommends any motorcycle-dedicated oil (synthetic or petroleum base) throughout the life of the engine, with Castrol being the preferred brand. We do not suggest using synthetic oil until after the 6,000 mile service.

Car motor oils have been reformulated and no longer meet the needs of a motorcycle engine. If an automotive oil is used in your motorcycle, clutch damage may be experienced, and BMW Motorrad USA would not be liable for any consequential damage.

If you have any further questions, please respond to this e-mail or contact the Customer Relations and Services Department at 1-800-831-1117. Our office hours are Monday through Friday from 9:00 A.M. to 9:00 P.M., Eastern Standard Time.

Regards,
BMW Motorrad USA




-----Original Message-----

From: [email protected]
Sent: 12/11/2006 12:00:00 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [bmw-admin] [visitor-feedback] Message from site visitor

 Tim Vipond sent the following message from the site:My 2006 K1200LT BMW motorcycle manual states that "Proprietary HD oil, API classification SF, SG or SH: suffix letters CD or CE are allowable; alternatively, proprietary HD oil of CCMC classification G4 or G5; suffix PD2 is allowable."
SAE 20W50 and 15W50 are the recommended viscosities for my temperature range.

Would Castrol Syntec auto/light truck 20W50 oil SAE 20W-50 which states: "provides superior oil film strength and extreme high temperature protection. Exceeds all car and light truck manufacturer's warranty requirements for the protection of gasoline, diesel and turbocharged engines where API SM, SL, SJ, SH, CF or CD is recommended. Exceeds European ACEA: A3, B3, B4, and the engine protection requirements of GM 4718M, ILSAC GF-4 for API Certified Gasoline Engine Oils."

meet these specifications and be a good choice for this dry clutch motorcycle? If this oil fails in this application, do you warranty for parts and labor?Full name: Tim VipondUsername: Email address: [email protected]ddress: 6011 Amelia Terrace Court, Sugar Land, TX 77479Browser info: Netscape 5.0 (Windows; en-US) (this information may be useful if the user is complaining of technical problems on the site)Regards,BMWMotorcycles.com  
 

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If an automotive oil is used in your motorcycle, clutch damage may be experienced, and BMW Motorrad USA would not be liable for any consequential damage.
Repeat after me, Tim: "The K1200LT has a separate dry clutch that never comes in contact with the engine oil."

If engine oil does get to the clutch on a K1200LT, then you're looking at a very expensive repair bill. The new slant-4 K motor does have a wet clutch, but that's not what we're discussing here.

Just because some paper-pusher at BMW gives you a blanket statement regarding all BMW motorcycles in all conditions doesn't make him right. I'll take Shealey's engineering experience over some suit with a name tag any day. You may choose to do differently with your bike. And we'd both be right, for our own purposes. Isn't choice a wonderful thing?

Now I'd politely like to suggest that we drop this particular discussion, since we're all just rehashing the same claims over and over again. How about we just go riding instead?
 

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I know what kind of clutch the K1200LT has. In fact, that is exactly what I stated in my email to BMW. I've owned 2. One for 137,000 miles and my 2006 for 12,000 miles. I had one dry clutch replaced, like many others have. Just passing on the OFFICIAL BMW response to our question. I've asked the same question to Castrol and waiting to hear their response. I'll post what they send me. That should be new info, as I haven't heard of anything official from them.
 

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Castrol response to engine oil in K1200LT

Castrol always recommends following the guidelines of the engine manufacturer for the recommended grade and API specific to your application. This information can be found in the vehicles owner's manual, by contacting the manufacturer directly.

Castrol does not recommend using automotive oils in motorcycles. The Reason? In 1996 the American Petroleum Institute (API) upgraded the performance standards of automotive oil from SG to SJ (currently SM). This upgrade impacted the friction modifiers and zinc and phosphorus levels, to address the fuel economy, catalytic converter and pollution issues of passenger car owners. Motorcycle engines appreciate a higher level of the anti-wear ingredients of zinc and phosphorus.

We have formulated our line of Castrol Motorcycle oils to be API SG. This allows us to optimize the formula specifically for motorcycles without being constrained by the specification demands for passenger car engines, which our passenger car oil must meet. All Castrol Motorcycle oils have low volatility to reduce the effects of oil evaporation, and they can be up to 50% lower than many API SL/SJ passenger car engine oils. API SJ engine oils have a minimal shear stability requirement; therefore, some types may lose their viscosity more quickly when used in a motorcycle, due to the stresses of these bike engines.

The Castrol motorcycle line includes oil for 2 stroke, 4 stroke and V-Twin oils with a wide variety of viscosity ranges and oil types, including mineral, synthetic blend and fully synthetic formulations. This variety offers superior performance for all motorcycle rider demands and every type of riding condition.

For an air cooled motorcycle, we recommend a V-Twin formulation- Castrol V-Twin, and Castrol ActEvo V-twin

For the liquid-cooled, either V-twin or 4 stroke would be appropriate, and your choice should be based on the viscosity requirements of the
motorcycle-
Castrol ActEvo, Castrol GPS, and Castrol R4 Superbike

Castrol's line of motorcycle products are available through motorcycle specialty shops and regional distributors.

If you would like to locate a distributor or retailer near you, call Motorcycle Stuff at 1-800-325-3673

To purchase online visit: www.proformanceusa.com

For more information on all of Castrol's motorcycle oils visit:
www.castrol.com/us and click 'Products & Services' then 'For You' then
'Motorcycles'

Castrol Consumer Relations
 

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Well, as in the ham community, (and the IT community and likely several other communities) there's "Good engineering practice", "tradition", "Best Practices", "habits", "real world", "marketing" and at elast "statistics".

Religious adhesion to any one often leads to functional failure.
 

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I'm with Ken here. You've made your point and your Amsoil pitch. Please, please, please stop
.

Thanks.

Oh and just so you know, I use Amsoil in my bike. Personal choice and proven in my other vehicles.
 
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