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Discussion Starter #1
Hey Guys,

I made these 2 videos of the ongoing leaking brake calipers on my 2020 R1250RT, This is my first BMW. In the videos these are new replacement calipers after the recall that still leak. Below is the brief history of my BMW experience.

#1 Prior to purchase was told the 2020's didn't leak = leaking after first ride home.

#2 I've had the rebuild kit installed (600 miles) = still leaking.

#3 Replaced the calipers (6000 miles) = still leaking.

#4 Returned to the dealer and told the fluid leaking was just "residual" under the bleeder caps (6250 miles) = still leaking (even after returning home, days later, still leaking).

Steve


 

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Sorry for you. This shouldn't happen
I don't know if Canadian bike's calipers came from another batch but my 2019 R1250RT with 16000 km has no leaking issue.
Maybe I'm just lucky

YMMV
 

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Is this a new brand of caliper that BMW is using now?
Looks like major problem.
Just looked it up, Hayes calipers. Probably cheaper than Brembo.
A lot of bikes are involved:
  • 2019-2020 BMW R 1250 GS
  • 2019-2020 BMW R 1250 GS ADVENTURE
  • 2019-2020 BMW R 1250 RT
  • 2020 BMW S 1000 RR
  • 2020 BMW S 1000 XR
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Is this a new brand of caliper that BMW is using now?
Looks like major problem.
Just looked it up, Hayes calipers. Probably cheaper than Brembo.
A lot of bikes are involved:
  • 2019-2020 BMW R 1250 GS
  • 2019-2020 BMW R 1250 GS ADVENTURE
  • 2019-2020 BMW R 1250 RT
  • 2020 BMW S 1000 RR
  • 2020 BMW S 1000 XR
Yes, these are new replacement Hayes calipers after being recalled. BMW went cheap.

Steve
 

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Yep went with a US company rather than European, you guys obviously can't make callipers :) But mine don't leak and I like them better than the Brembos on my 2014. They have much better feel.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Yep went with a US company rather than European, you guys obviously can't make callipers :) But mine don't leak and I like them better than the Brembos on my 2014. They have much better feel.
I don't understand why they would put cheap brakes on the front and still keep Brembos on the rear. Crazy!!!
 

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I don't understand why they would put cheap brakes on the front and still keep Brembos on the rear. Crazy!!!
Maybe the Hayes rears are not ready or they have a lot of Brembo stock left. But is it only cost saving, nobody seems to know, Brembo is a mass produced item as well, so maybe it wasn't cost saving, we may never know the reasoning
 

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I would not be too quick to shame Hayes. IF they built to BMW spec and BMW designed them it is all BMW. If they outsourced the o rings on the pucks it is BMW!

Hayes was the INNOVATOR in large truck disk brakes. They been building disk brakes forever. 1970 that I know of for sure.

Sad we will never know exactly what it was. But if it was a cost saving measure on a component of the caliper it is not the caliper builders fault.

I do not understand the mix front and rear either just makes no sense on the cost of these bikes.

You know I so wanted and lusted after a 1250 but this stuff is so second rate it is a shame and I am so happy I am not paying the depreciation on yet another new motorcycle that is not ready for prime time.

I will die with my lowly 17.5 1200 GS. Well that is if my cams hold out :)
 
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I like the Hayes brakes on my 1250, and no leaks :) 1st of October apparently updated 1250RT TfT display and LCD lights, plus more. Not long to wait to see what they have come up with. K1600 gets the TFT as well if rumours are to be believed.
 

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I would not be too quick to shame Hayes. IF they built to BMW spec and BMW designed them it is all BMW. If they outsourced the o rings on the pucks it is BMW!

Hayes was the INNOVATOR in large truck disk brakes. They been building disk brakes forever. 1970 that I know of for sure.

Sad we will never know exactly what it was. But if it was a cost saving measure on a component of the caliper it is not the caliper builders fault.

I do not understand the mix front and rear either just makes no sense on the cost of these bikes.

You know I so wanted and lusted after a 1250 but this stuff is so second rate it is a shame and I am so happy I am not paying the depreciation on yet another new motorcycle that is not ready for prime time.

I will die with my lowly 17.5 1200 GS. Well that is if my cams hold out :)
I don't know this for fact in this case, Lee, but typically a vehicle (or machine, or products that have multiple complex components) manufacturer would go to a component supplier (brakes, in this instance) and ask them to quote the price for such components which will meet certain performance specifications. Very rarely would they get involved in the detailed design of the complete component, UNLESS it is critical to the performance to do so. So, in this case, I doubt that BMW got involved in the actual design of the components of the caliper! Leaking means seal(s) failure whether due to damage or not meeting specifications. I suspect damage, since seals are usually pretty good when it comes to meeting specifications. Probability is very high, IMHO, that the damage is done somewhere in the assembly process.

Similar story to what happened with the '14 RT rear shock, but this time nowhere near as serious. In that instance, the shock manufacturer is wholly responsible for the design of the shaft that failed. When I looked at design of where that shaft was connected to the piston, in the final analysis, it was very clear to me that the manufacturer took the cheap way out, probably thinking that it should be "good enough". Just one more machining step would have eliminated that whole problem entirely! No wonder that they took the cheap way, since the company was in financial difficulties even before BMW had selected them to supply the shocks!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hey Guys,

In this short video (11 seconds) you can hear air getting sucked into the calipers while pumping the brakes, the sucking sound is when the lever is released. The NHTSA is suppose to be talking to BMW today. My bike has been sitting for over three weeks without being rode.

Steve

 

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I read in the current ON that the recall campaign was set to start on Oct 6.
I am curious as to what parts the dealer used to replace your calipers.
Did they just take what was on the shelf or replace with a different part number?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I read in the current ON that the recall campaign was set to start on Oct 6.
I am curious as to what parts the dealer used to replace your calipers.
Did they just take what was on the shelf or replace with a different part number?
These were new BMW post recall calipers. I was told they took care of the cop bikes first then I got my calipers done.
 

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This week I received a letter from bmw advising me of the recall. The letter advises that the front brake callipers will be inspected and if necessary, replaced. However at this time they do not have a remedy so the inspection is for safety purposes. Once they have replacement parts available, they will be installed free of charge. This letter was from bmw Canada

i’m taking the bike into the dealer this week for an oil and filter change and inspection. I will advise as to the outcome.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Hey guys,

I just talked to BMW, it looks like they want to inspect the bike on Wednesday the 21st. They said they'll pick up the bike the day before and two BMW engineers will be there when they do the inspection. I asked him if it would be filmed (as I think it should be), but he didn't say that it would be, he wasn't sure. The guy at NHTSA will be on a zoom call while they remove the calipers and are inspected. They're having my bike taken to a dealer where it has never been serviced. They said they'll install new calipers at that time, then deliver my bike back to my home. Fingers crossed they can resolve this.

Steve
 

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Follow-up to my Wednesday appointment. Oil and filter done. My front callipers are apparently leaking although not obvious to me at all. Bmw will replace the calipers, but I will have to wait until spring to do it as the bike is now asleep for winter.
 

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This week I received a letter from bmw advising me of the recall. The letter advises that the front brake callipers will be inspected and if necessary, replaced. However at this time they do not have a remedy so the inspection is for safety purposes. Once they have replacement parts available, they will be installed free of charge. This letter was from bmw Canada
I received the same letter here in the States from BMW with the same information. I clean my wheels after every ride and I've not noticed any seepage or leaking.
 

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Just got my letter today too. No leaking so far and I just checked my 2019 RT about 10m ago. My totally uneducated guess from looking at pictures is that it a metal to metal sealing issue.

As an aside, and not meaning to paper over anyones frustrating experiences here...

This is my first BMW, and my first liter bike, previously rode a dl650, and I have to say that I REALLY love the brakes on this bike. When I get back on the dl650, I feel like I need to rebuild the whole brake system. Well, I suppose i should, it's got 30k miles on it. What makes the brakes so good? Cylinder size/count? Pads? Some electronics? The lines? The DL650 is dual disc, with two cyinders in each Tokico caliper.

Either way, it's the closest I've gotten to the perfect feel I had on my fixed gear track bicycle where I had mounted a reverse pull lever and a nice road brake that I could take off once I got to the velodrome. Once I had a van left turn in front of me when I was sprinting, and I was able to do a rolling endo to a stop, and felt like I had perfect control over the brake the entire time. That's what these brakes on the RT feel like. I have had a few times where I broke hard before entering a turn and could feel the weight transfer, maybe the rear came up. Maybe the electronics kicked in, but it FELT like my slight ease of pressure on the lever was all that was needed to resettle it.

On my recent trip thru the southern blue ridge and smokies, I was working on trail braking and was stoked with the control I could get with just one finger. Also, so much less front end dive. I felt I could continue to scrub speed even after leaned and not upset the chassis at all. I suppose this is normal on high-end bikes, but it's a new thing for me coming from a Yamaha xj650, Suzuki dl650.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Hey Guys,

Off to the dealership today. This is the fifth time for the leaking calipers.

Steve

 

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Discussion Starter #20
So my bike was inspected by two BMW engineers yesterday and also a NHTSA investigator, below is a email from the NHTSA investigator. These are the replacement Hayes calipers from the recall. I've had NO RESPONSE from BMW to any of my emails, amazing!!!!!!!

Steve,

We were able to view the inspection and they confirmed that both calipers were leaking. So now those parts are being sent to Germany for analysis to determine the exact origin(s) and they’ve agreed to update us regularly. They were going to get new calipers for your bike and double check them to confirm there’s no leakage before returning the bike to you.

I can also add that we had them check for any signs of other leaks in the system, all the way from the brake reservoir down to the calipers and the inspector indicated everything was dry. I also had him grip the brake firmly for an extended period to judge whether the leak was fast or slow and it must have been very slow because it didn’t get visibly worse in that short amount of time. He did note that the fluid in the sight glass was only about half way up, but I’m not sure how much fluid loss that represents.

BMW indicated they wanted to make sure the vehicle was checked and ridden by one of their techs to be certain of no leakage before returning it to you, so you may want to ask about what checks they did to ensure that. And of course let us know if you detect anything wrong.
 
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