[Cochinosucio]

I understand - did aviation maintenance in the Navy for 27 years and now support the Army in designing new weapons systems(BSEE). But I KNOW the LT very well and we have seen this same behaviour several times before. Just say'in that is where my money is...

I hope you don't think I was being a jackwagon.... I respect your posts, and your advice, and next month will be 27 years of heavy jet MX for me also.
Whoever is correct, this thread will certainly go in the TS notebook... Seems like a switch is much cheaper than any other options...

 

[jzeiler]

I hope you don't think I was being a jackwagon.... I respect your posts, and your advice, and next month will be 27 years of heavy jet MX for me also.
Whoever is correct, this thread will certainly go in the TS notebook... Seems like a switch is much cheaper than any other options...

No problem, I always welcome a fresh approach. Sometime we miss our noses right on our faces. Keep it up.

On a side note the lights are a direct from the switch with only the load shed relay in the loop. That relay gets its ground through the starter. So no sw involved there.

 

[TerryN]

Gentlemen,
As I said the bike was delivered to the dealer last Wednesday. They checked it for fault codes immediately but none were reported. Unable to duplicate the no starting problem because the bike was warm they sent me on my way with a loaner.

Thursday I called but didn't get a response until after hours. I was told in his 20 years plus of working on BMW's this was a first. In the morning after sitting overnight in the cool weather it indeed would not start. Sitting for 2 minutes with ignition on the sero motor sounded and it would start. Again no fault codes were reported.

They began by breaking the bike down to expose the relays in the power area that some of you me referred to. They checked numerous relay switches none of which were bad (I'm sorry I can't remember the names of the different relays they said they checked). Since they were less than $20 each they replaces a couple of them just to be sure.

Moving on to the security system that I was told is housed under the trunk in the rear of the bike they found that the rechargable battery it contains would not hold a charge. When that battery is dead it does not send the necessay code to the computer to allow the bike to start. By turning on the ignition and letting the bike sit until the bike battery somewhat charges the security unit battery the codes can be sent for the bike to start. The new security system unit or battery I'm not sure which was ordered Friday but cannot be installed until next Tuesday because they are closed on Mondays. The financial details of this are very vague to me because the Services Manager called me after hours and didn't have those details available plus he said the dealership owner was going to work something out with me to help minimize my expenses. What ever that means!

After I pick up the bike and can discuss it more throughly with the Parts Manager I will give a more detailed summary of what transpired.

Again thank you to all who have offer help and encouragement.

Thanks,
Terry

 

[Bones1955]

Wow..interesting.
Who would have thought..makes sense though!
The more I hear about he newer ones the more I like my 2000 without that system and no weird double brake deal or hyd center stand.

 

[kimokk]

It shouldn't be that much for a rechareable battery plus some diagnostic fees?! I hope they treat you right.

 

[wa1200lt]

It shouldn't be that much for a rechareable battery plus some diagnostic fees?! I hope they treat you right.

Don't forget the teardown to get to the relays.

 

[Voyager]

Gentlemen,
As I said the bike was delivered to the dealer last Wednesday. They checked it for fault codes immediately but none were reported. Unable to duplicate the no starting problem because the bike was warm they sent me on my way with a loaner.

Thursday I called but didn't get a response until after hours. I was told in his 20 years plus of working on BMW's this was a first. In the morning after sitting overnight in the cool weather it indeed would not start. Sitting for 2 minutes with ignition on the sero motor sounded and it would start. Again no fault codes were reported.

They began by breaking the bike down to expose the relays in the power area that some of you me referred to. They checked numerous relay switches none of which were bad (I'm sorry I can't remember the names of the different relays they said they checked). Since they were less than $20 each they replaces a couple of them just to be sure.

Moving on to the security system that I was told is housed under the trunk in the rear of the bike they found that the rechargable battery it contains would not hold a charge. When that battery is dead it does not send the necessay code to the computer to allow the bike to start. By turning on the ignition and letting the bike sit until the bike battery somewhat charges the security unit battery the codes can be sent for the bike to start. The new security system unit or battery I'm not sure which was ordered Friday but cannot be installed until next Tuesday because they are closed on Mondays. The financial details of this are very vague to me because the Services Manager called me after hours and didn't have those details available plus he said the dealership owner was going to work something out with me to help minimize my expenses. What ever that means!

After I pick up the bike and can discuss it more throughly with the Parts Manager I will give a more detailed summary of what transpired.

Again thank you to all who have offer help and encouragement.

Thanks,
Terry

I am curious to know more about this. I didn't realize the alarm system had a separate battery. I wonder what the normal life is for this battery as my 07 is coming up on 5 years of age. Please post the part number here once you get the information from your dealer.

 

[jzeiler]

That is a new one on me. I take it the lights on the bike would come on immediately every time the switch was turned on? Please confirm. I knew there was a rechargeable battery in the alarm but the alarm has no control over the headlight at all. Also the ABS is not tied into the alarm or ECU for power so the servos should have always made noise immediately on key turn if the switch was OK. I'll watch and see if this does solve your problem.

 

[TerryN]

John,
The lights did come on immediately with the key switch. Tack & speedo would do their cycle back and forth etc.. Numerous sounds came from the bike like the tick tock of a clock (I think something to do with the brakes). But the sound the bike made just before it would start was more of a errr aah that lasted for 1 to 1 1/2 seconds. That noise as close as I can tell came from the front of the bike somewhere near the gas tank.

Again when I meet the Service Manager to pick up the bike and get my bill I will gather more specific information and share it with all who are interested.

Thanks again,
Terry

 

[jzeiler]

Great - Thanks that pretty much eliminates the gummy ignition switch theory. I'll log this for future reference should it happen again down the road. That was most likely the fuel pump when the alarm triggered the engine electrics relay. That then feeds the fuel pump relay through the ECU.

 

[deanwoolsey]

What they are calling a rechargeable battery in the alarm system may be a capacitor memory system. They are quite common in automotive systems today. I doubt that a dealership would be willing or able to replace it if defective. You will likely be getting a bill for the alarm controller unit plus diagnostic labor. Be prepared. Not as high as I would have guessed though.

0165 75 7678934 Control unit DWA 5.01 $459.15

 

[Cochinosucio]

Great - Thanks that pretty much eliminates the gummy ignition switch theory. I'll log this for future reference should it happen again down the road. That was most likely the fuel pump when the alarm triggered the engine electrics relay. That then feeds the fuel pump relay through the ECU.

+1, That will also go in the logbook!

I remember when I reconnected my battery and the alarm went off, disconnected battery, alarm continued (at 2am) until I found the key fob...lol... Makes sense though....

 

[New2rt]

On the RT the alarm battery is replaceable, watch type battery.
The service life IIRC is approx 4 years. the replacement procedure is in the alarm manual.
I don't know if the LT has the same type setup but it would be something I'll research to avoid a similar no start condition. It would make sense to have a battery backup in case the leads to the main battery were cut.

TerryN please let us know if the dealer did in fact replace an alarm battery.

Thanks

 

[Voyager]

What they are calling a rechargeable battery in the alarm system may be a capacitor memory system. They are quite common in automotive systems today. I doubt that a dealership would be willing or able to replace it if defective. You will likely be getting a bill for the alarm controller unit plus diagnostic labor. Be prepared. Not as high as I would have guessed though.

0165 75 7678934 Control unit DWA 5.01 $459.15

A capacitor makes more sense as the lifespan is nearly infinite. And many capacitors can be replaced as easily as batteries, all depends on the design.

 

[jzeiler]

Not sure if a capacitor would operate the alarm for very long if the bikes battery was disconnected while it was armed as this one will.

On another data point if you wanted to you can just remove the alarm and jumper four pins on the twelve pin connector and be done with it altogether.

 

[jzeiler]

On the RT the alarm battery is replaceable, watch type battery.
The service life IIRC is approx 4 years. the replacement procedure is in the alarm manual.
I don't know if the LT has the same type setup but it would be something I'll research to avoid a similar no start condition. It would make sense to have a battery backup in case the leads to the main battery were cut.

TerryN please let us know if the dealer did in fact replace an alarm battery.

Thanks

The battery in the alarm unit is not replaceable like the one in the FOB.

 

[wa1200lt]

There are some options discussed in this post that can keep this from ever being a problem again! http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65578&highlight=disable+alarm

Should be worth a look.

Loren

 

[New2rt]

The battery in the alarm unit is not replaceable like the one in the FOB.

John, does it have a battery?
It used to be that the TPM batteries were not replaceable till someone figured out a work around.
Just wondering if this will be the same can't until someone does.
It would be easier to bypass but if someone still wants the alarm to function it might be worth a little investigation.

 

[jzeiler]

I am sure you can cut into it and I'll do that if I have a problem. I just don't know where it is in the case.

What I meant by not replaceable is that the dealer will replace the alarm rather than the battery in it.

 

[deanwoolsey]

John is correct. A capacitor memory system does not retain enough energy to run a siren for any length of time. Sounds like it contains a simple nicad or lithium unit. I would think it's replaceable if the case can be opened and closed without damage.