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Discussion Starter #1
This started in April, right as some of the best riding weather in Texas was approaching. Bike ran fine on the way to my shop. At the end of the day I got on and it idled poorly and the tach wasn't working. Something changed while it was just sitting there for the day. I rode it home but it had no power. Wide open throttle I could only do about 85mph. IBecuse this bike is my primary transportation I kept riding for a few more days. Noticed the Remus exhaust was very black and sooty. My gas mileage was terrible. After researching my manuals and this forum I concluded it was the O2 sensor. Ordered one and swapped it out and nothing changed. I read that the Hall Effect Sensor feed the tach and it's reputation is the wiring goes bad around 70k. I have 62k. Put the bike on my lift, ordered a HES and swapped it out. When I cranked it on the lift the tach came to life. I thought I'd fixed it. Got it back to together and went for a ride. Tach quit working again and still no power. 85mph at full thottle. It was a Sunday, I decided to take it to the dealer Tuesday and in the meantime ride it since it was running. Got a mile from home and it flat out died. Had to get towed to my shop and then to the dealer. They said the coil pack was dead. It tool 3 months to get a coil pack from Germany. No one had one. I called them all, BMW Max, BeemerBoneyard ect. Dealer got the bike back together and still no power. Last time I saw the bike it was on their lift all stripped down and they were tyring to tell me all they could find was a cracked intake tube between the No1 Throttle body and the air filter box.

This has had the canister-ectomy. Since it runs I doubt it's fuel pump related. They haven't run it enough to know if the exhaust is still showing an over-rich mixture. There are no codes coming up.

I typically work on the bike myself as I've lost faith in this dealer shop, but it got to where I couldn't figure it out and now they can't.

Thanks for reading and appreciate any suggestions.
RyZ
 

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Wrencher Extraordinaire
2005 K1200LT
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Certainly a coil pack fault can cause the the Tach to go out as that is where it gets the signal from. HES goes bad in the older R and K bikes, I have never seen one go bad in an LT in the last 16 years. I would have looked at e-bay for a coil pack as they just don't go bad very often (except yours I guess). The crack in the air tube would not cause much as it is before the TB. Most often cause of sudden death in the LT has been the fuel lines IN the tank, U shaped one often splits and the bike dies or it leaks and the bike runs bad.
 

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If the bike simply isn't running then one can look at the basics: spark, fuel, compression, timing. The dealership must have some information on those. If there is no spark for instance then there is a path to investigate (HES to ECU, ECU to coil, etc).

When you were riding and the power was down, did it feel like you were running on two cylinders or was it smooth like you were on all four?

One thing I sometimes do when a problem like this that is intermittent (not saying yours is) is rig diagnostic LEDs to things like the HES and the coil. For instance I had a stalling problem with an R100 and I put LEDs on the ignition trigger power in, the trigger signal out, and the coil input. It was 100% clear when the bike stalled that the signal from the HES was stopping, because the flickering LED went solid red. If your problem was intermittent I would put LEDs on the two coil inputs and see if one of them went quiet.

Just saying, thoughtful diagnostics usually beats parts-swapping.
 

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How is the fuel line in the tank? Maybe you have a small crack in the tube. I replaced the crooked tube with metal.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
The problem is not intermittent.

<did it feel like you were running on two cylinders or was it smooth like you were on all four? >

Did not feel like it was running on just a couple cylinders. Was smooth, just no power.

The poor mileage, (24mpg) and black soot in the pipe was telltale of an over-rich mixture. If it was just running on a half the jugs then there would obviously be a lot of unburnt fuel in the exhaust which would contribute to that over-rich indications, but it would also run rough. It didn't. The dealership oddly enough cast that aside as if it wasn't important. They've hardly ridden the bike but claim there's no "black smoke" coming out of the exhaust. I tried to explain to them that I never say "black smoke" either. but stick their finger up the pipe and see if it comes out black and sooty. Not heard if they've done any of that anyway.

They don't seem interested in what I have to say. As a frame of reference besides flying for a living I'm an A&P mechanic, have a shop that maintains aircraft, rebuilds engines, just about anything to make a buck in aviation so I'm not ignorant on the ways of engines. I dont' mind working on the bike. I replaced the clutch about a year and a half ago and learned a lot. I'm much more productive working and flying airplanes though and you'd think taking it to a BMW shop that they'd be the subject matter experts on these bikes. Not looking that way at the moment. Apologize for venting a little.

RyZ
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Discussion Starter #6
< I have never seen one go bad in an LT in the last 16 years. >

That's interesting and totally contrary to what the dealer guys told me. In fact according to them they fail so often there were none, zero in BMW's inventory and the hold up was getting some made. MAX BMW told me the same thing. so I wanted to believe them but as many of the BMW parts are cross[-pollinated onto other models I found it hard to believe.

Anyway, I agree that the HES feeds the tach it's signal. So I'm back in the dealers shop bays looking at my torn apart bike and talking to the service manager. We're discussing the tach not working and I tell him again that the only reason I changed the HES was the book said a failed tach usually was an HES problem. The mechanic working on the bike next to mine chimed in and said "...there's only one wire that goes to the tach and it comes from the ECU. and it's fine so it's not the HES." I started to ask him if the HES went to the ECU then the tach and he got all huffy and said "I'm not going to argue with you." and stomped off. I'm really regretting taking my bike to these guys (again, they set my 2000 K1200LT on fire, a really long story).

RyZ
 

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Don't apologies for venting. I think you have been more than patient with these so called mechanics. Just because they may have some kind of certificate declaring they are BMW mechanics does not make them experts. That only comes from years of experience and an open mind that allows you to always learn new things. Of course a natural talent for diagnostics is a huge help. As an example, one of my customers has an American made machine worth quite a bit and is fairly complex. The manufacturers and their Australian agents both diagnosed a problem and their solution was an $80,000 quoted job and 10 days down time. All the parts had been ordered and the job was 2 weeks from start time. I was asked to look at the problem and diagnosed a completely different cause.
My fix which worked cost $5,000 and downtime was half a day. If the so called experts were allowed to proceed the problem would have still been there and the company would have been down $80,000 and a lot of lost production. Brand named experts are NOT always right and sometimes they are disastrously wrong.
To me it sounds like your BMW experts are caught up in the fact they are called BMW mechanics and they are closed off to listening to all other input.
I would trust the guys on this forum before I trusted them, they are responsible for helping many LT owners work through their problems.
 

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Actually there is one wire to the tach and it comes from the coil.
 

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The problem is not intermittent.

<did it feel like you were running on two cylinders or was it smooth like you were on all four? >

Did not feel like it was running on just a couple cylinders. Was smooth, just no power.

The poor mileage, (24mpg) and black soot in the pipe was telltale of an over-rich mixture. If it was just running on a half the jugs then there would obviously be a lot of unburnt fuel in the exhaust which would contribute to that over-rich indications, but it would also run rough. It didn't. The dealership oddly enough cast that aside as if it wasn't important. They've hardly ridden the bike but claim there's no "black smoke" coming out of the exhaust. I tried to explain to them that I never say "black smoke" either. but stick their finger up the pipe and see if it comes out black and sooty. Not heard if they've done any of that anyway.

They don't seem interested in what I have to say. As a frame of reference besides flying for a living I'm an A&P mechanic, have a shop that maintains aircraft, rebuilds engines, just about anything to make a buck in aviation so I'm not ignorant on the ways of engines. I dont' mind working on the bike. I replaced the clutch about a year and a half ago and learned a lot. I'm much more productive working and flying airplanes though and you'd think taking it to a BMW shop that they'd be the subject matter experts on these bikes. Not looking that way at the moment. Apologize for venting a little.

RyZ View attachment 171699
Sooty exhaust and low power usually implies over rich condition, but doesn't explain the Tach issue. I wonder if the two are electrically related? If the engine thought it was freezing cold then it would electronically choke the fuel mixture, I assume. The impedance reading from the temp sensor decreases as engine temp rises (LT Cold start issue) so an electrical open would be absolute zero, in essence. So I wonder, could there be a shared connecter for the temp sensor and tach, or maybe a wiring bundle, that is causing intermittent open condition?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Interesting thought on the temp sensor. I stopped by yesterday to check on the bikes status and the answer was "They sent us the wrong part". Once they get this hose installed, (which has nothing to do with anything other than it's cracked) we'll see what they come up with. 80 degrees in November, awesome riding weather..
 

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Interesting thought on the temp sensor. I stopped by yesterday to check on the bikes status and the answer was "They sent us the wrong part". Once they get this hose installed, (which has nothing to do with anything other than it's cracked) we'll see what they come up with. 80 degrees in November, awesome riding weather..
If it were my bike, I’d bring it home and start troubleshooting with advice from folks here. It sure can’t take any longer than what the dealer has taken and probably has a much higher likelihood of success.

Had you performed any maintenance or repairs to the LT prior to the problem occurring? When you say it ran fine on the way to the shop, I am assuming you mean the shop where you work and not the motorcycle shop, right? I am inferring that from the cotext, but I am not 100% clear on that. Things certainly can go bad just sitting (mine like that have always been either mice or gas going stale), but that certainly is not the norm.
 

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If you were a fly on the wall in that BMW workshop you would probably see the mechanics walking past your bike on the way to other projects, it sounds like they have given up.
 

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when I had power failure it was the hoses in the fuel tank... have you inspected them yet?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Second sentence in my original post <Bike ran fine on the way to my shop. >, and as I described in that post I've done as much as I could to troubleshoot the bike, including changing the hall effect sensor. and O2 sensor.

As of today they STILL have not fixed the bike and as you suggest I will probably take it back and figure it out myself, one day. I just don't have the time. I'm a Pilot and A&P mechanic, It's not very productive for me to spend time fixing a motorcycle when I can make a lot more money flying and fixing airplanes. Despite covid, my business is booming. The airlines have cut back and many businesses are using their corporate aircraft MORE! I had a few minutes today to spare and decided to start shopping for another bike, a Harley. I've had all kinds of bikes but never has any brand of bike given me this much heart ache, even a Harley. The K1200LT is a great riding bike but I don't have time to keep fixing BMW's stuff and as for that BMW shop, BMW should pull their certification as an authorized repair facility. I couldn't get away with that kind of incompetence in the aviation industry.





If it were my bike, I’d bring it home and start troubleshooting with advice from folks here. It sure can’t take any longer than what the dealer has taken and probably has a much higher likelihood of success.

Had you performed any maintenance or repairs to the LT prior to the problem occurring? When you say it ran fine on the way to the shop, I am assuming you mean the shop where you work and not the motorcycle shop, right? I am inferring that from the cotext, but I am not 100% clear on that. Things certainly can go bad just sitting (mine like that have always been either mice or gas going stale), but that certainly is not the norm.
 
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