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Discussion Starter #1
I have an 07 LT with 30,000 miles that hasn't started for 4 months now. I tried starting it one morning and it would crank but wouldn't turnover. It sounded a bit weak and reluctantly I replaced the battery. That didn't work. After further investigation I found water in the fuel tank. I thought this has to be the source of all my problems. To make a long story short, the fuel system has been gone over with a fine tooth comb by me, a local mechanic, and a BMW mechanic. The dealership, who's had the bike for a month now, tells me the bike is classified as a PUMA case. Which means they have no clue what the problem is and have to contact BMW directly. Which they did about two weeks ago and even with all the help directly from BMW themselves it still won't start.

I'm not looking for repair suggestions here - I gave up on that when I handed it over to the dealer. What I would like to know is if anyone else has had a similar sort of experience. I'm assuming this has to be a warranty case now, right? (It better be, the dealer mechanic has already put in 45 hours. Can you imagine the bill?) Also, assuming they can't get it started, how long can attempted repairs go on? Is there any chance BMW would replace the bike?
 

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it SHOULD be a warranty case, unless it was bought Jan - Apr in 07. If the 36 months aren't over yet let the dealer put in as many hours as they need to.

At the same time, I doubt BMW will be buying the bike back unless they really can't get it to work for months.
 

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If it's still under warranty, you may want to check out lemon laws for the state of PA. In some states, if you haven't had use of the vehicle for a stated number of days, it is considered a lemon and the mfg. must purchase it back from you.

Mmm...just checked PA law and motorcycles are specifically excluded from the state's lemon law qualifications. Looks like it will be between you, the dealer and BMW.

Good luck.
 

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I too had crank but no start issues.

See my thread which appears at the bottom of the page as a related thread titled "Ignition or fuel problem, No Start".

I had spark, fuel pressure but no run.

When I removed the fuel injection rail and re-installed it so the nozzels spray could be observed I had 3 out of 4 working (good spray pattern).

Why it didn't start and run, through badly, I don't know.

I removed the non-spraying nozzel for cleaning and while doing so dropped it .

It OHM'd out OK and after dropping sprayed fine.

Put it in, started right up and I never looked back.

My motorcycle Rabbi swears by Chevron Techron for FI systems. I use it every chance I can.

Good luck
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Seems like I need a Rabbi.

That's unfortunate about PA's motorcycle exemption for the lemon law. How does that make any sense?

In the mean time, I called BMW customer service and talked to a manager. I told him my story and said I wanted a new motorcycle. Surprisingly, he didn't say no immediately. He said he would call the service manager and get back to me. At the very least, I suspect they might give the overworked mechanic some sort of assistance.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
 

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Good luck. I hope they don't point at the water in the tank, and try to pin this on you!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
ridinredfox said:
I too had crank but no start issues.

My motorcycle Rabbi swears by Chevron Techron for FI systems. I use it every chance I can.
Are you suggesting the only way to fix my bike is to get my penis cut!?!

Well, I guess it could be worse.
 

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Old school thought process says air, fuel (quantity), and spark (timing). Try cranking her over while you spray a little WD40 in the intake and see if she fires. If so, it's probably a fuel issue or the controller for the fuel injection system. No start on the WD40? Check for spark/timing. Hopefully they have tried all this. If not try it yourself before you dump her in the river. You may just need a new mechanic or second opinion.
 

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deanwoolsey said:
... Try cranking her over while you spray a little WD40 in the intake and see if she fires. ....
Dean, my understanding is that OP's bike is at the dealer's.

If so, the matter of technical investigation is out of his hands. He either needs to recover his bike (conceivably giving up on warranty) and try the approaches you suggest or continue and hope for the best with BMW.

Of course, your advice is very sound. I just cannot believe that a dealership would say "Ooops, the bike does not fire, we don't know what to do". Can you imagine your car mechanic saying that?

I am getting an impression that for some reasons the dealership is not really getting into the repair. I cannot believe that the dealer's mechanic put in 45 hours of work (that's some $6,000!), as they told alucente. Within that time, they could have replaced every component twice. That is ridiculous. Remember the expression "Wall Job"? I was on the receiving end of a few of those with my cars, I recognize the sickening feeling. My guess is that either they do not have the time or the in-house expertise or do not have replacement parts to substitute. After all, a modern fuel-injected engine is not exactly rocket science. And the K-motor is not really an exotic high-performance power plant.

Since he is stuck now, I think that the best route for alucente is now to be on the phone every other day with BMW NA, complaining and demanding an explanation why the problem is not corrected and why it is taking so long. Even if they tell him "don't call us, we'll call you", he should be on the ball non-stop. You know, it is the squeaky wheel principle. Complain and annoy them enough and they will fix it just to get rid of you.

I know someone who had a problem with an Audi car, that could not be resolved over prolonged time. Admittedly, it was a transmission performance gremlin, an intermittent driveability issue apparent only at specific conditions. After the dealership and Audi gave up, my acquaintance received keys to another car of same vintage, with apologies about a different body color. True story! They still have that A6. The dealer just wanted to get rid of his wife calling them and nagging (and she is very good that way... ;) ). Food for thought.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
They're telling me the fuel pump is bad because of the ethanol that is now in the gas.

Does that make sense?

Worse part, they tell me, there are no fuel pumps to be had.

Does that make sense?
 

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alucente said:
They're telling me the fuel pump is bad because of the ethanol that is now in the gas.

Does that make sense?

Worse part, they tell me, there are no fuel pumps to be had.

Does that make sense?
We have up to 10% ethanol in our gas. I have been running low test with ethanol for years on my 99LT with no problems, When I am fully loaded and pulling a trailer every other tank full is hightest.

Garry
 

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I can only wholeheartedly agree with calling them on a every other day basis. As long as you do not use the word attorney BMW will talk to you after you are going on their nerves long enough they will find a solution. The moment you use threats in terms of the legal system though they WILL SHUT DOWN.

Anyway, call the dealer, call BMW NA, and another tip is to start going up the food chain. Be as polite as possible and as calm as possible, even though this may be problematic at times, but you will get fast to a solution if you have a very polite chat with folks higher up the food chain.

At least that was what helped me back in 2007 when BMW repurchased the bike I had as a clear lemon.
 

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In the past, I've had success in disputes with companies by writing a personal letter to the CEO/President and detailing the issues I've had with getting a complaint resolved.

To that end, here is the information for BMW Motorrad USA:

Pieter de Waal- Vice President
BMW of North America, LLC
300 Chestnut Ridge Road
Woodcliff Lake, NJ 07675

Make the letter courteous, state the facts and detail any history you may have as a customer of BMW (even as a first customer if that is the case). I would be pretty surprised if you didn't get a quick, effective response.

Good luck.
 

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pickerbiker said:
... Make the letter courteous, state the facts and detail any history you may have as a customer of BMW (even as a first customer if that is the case). I would be pretty surprised if you didn't get a quick, effective response. ... Good luck.
+1 on that. And do not neglect to indicate the fact that in many states, all gasoline fuel is required to contain ethanol as the oxygenating agent since MTBE is banned. Here in the Northeast, I do not even recall seeing non-alcohol gasoline anymore (we are talking about the 10% additive, of course, not the full-on ethanol fuels, like E90).

I cannot find it right now, but a while back I wrote to BMW NA on their position about alcohol additives and they replied that standard 10% fuel does not void any warranties.

I did post it here in the past. I'll look for it here and in my Outlook archives.

Edit: I found it! Here it is, from the horse's mouth. Received Tue 7/14/2009 3:10 PM.

Dear Mr. Walker

Thank you for contacting BMW Motorrad USA. We appreciate your inquiry.

BMW approves fuels with an ethanol content of up to 10%. Above that level, drivability, and starting and stalling problems (especially under high temperatures or altitudes) will occur. Ethanol, as an oxygenate, causes excessive leaning of the fuel/air mixture. Extremely lean mixtures cause excessive prolonged combustion temperatures which will lead to engine damage like burned valves, plugs, etc.

We hope this fully addresses your inquiry. If you have any further questions, please respond to this e-mail or contact the Customer Relations and Services Department at 1-800-831-1117. Our office hours are Monday through Friday from 9:00 A.M. to 9:00 P.M., Eastern Standard Time.

Regards,

Nate Galmish
BMW Motorrad USA

__________________
 

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The fuel pump can go bad because of excess alcohol in the fuel. This would apply if you ran E85, E50, etc. as opposed to the standard E10 (gasohol). Ten percent alcohol is pretty common and the LT should run it with no issues. However if you ran a couple of tanks through it that were above ten percent it can cause issues. Flex-fuel vehicles have stainless steel fuel injection components and alcohol resistant hoses which the LT does not. Once you exceed the standard ten percent then corrosion, seal failure, and rubber degradation will set in. Have you run any E85, E50, or E35 in it? I suppose it's possible you got a big tank of E85 by accident. I personally saw a whole fleet of police cars that got dosed with diesel fuel instead of unleaded gasoline once. Most of them still ran but a couple had to have the fuel systems flushed. Mistakes happen. I'm curious how the water you mentioned got in the fuel. There was plainly a contamination issue at some point.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
deanwoolsey said:
I'm curious how the water you mentioned got in the fuel. There was plainly a contamination issue at some point.
That, unfortunately, remains a mystery. My last ride was on a rainy day but the tank overflow pan drain hose was working as expected - first thing I checked when I found the water. I did fill up that day so the only explanation I have is that I got a bad tank of gas.

To my knowledge I never filled up with anything over E10.

I think I'll call customer service again.
 

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If you found water in your tank I would say that was the first problem. I am sure drained and Sea Foam or other gas drier/additive with a fresh tank of gas?

Freshly charged battery while trying to start it.

Then on to the fuel system you said? Could or did you verifi gas pump was working? I know I have seen a few no starts on here where a small hose in the fuel tank splits and while the pump works it will not draw enough gas. I am sure someone will chime in on which hose it is as I have never dealt with it. I have read it more then once though, and know it is often overlooked by the best of them.

I guess onto the fuel rail from there? I would want to see in line fuel pressure. Of course connections to injectors. Are they fused and to what circuet?

Heck anybody's guess. After 4 months of sitting and I am not sure where or how it was stored, you could be fighting a completely different issue from simply water in your gas.

Any critters been to it?

I mean if you can verifi you got spark and enough fuel pressure, and the injectors are cyceling, it has to be some where else?

ECU?

I don't think you are going to get a new bike but stranger things have happened. After 4 months I would be ballistic but the old adage about fly's and honey only makes sense here. BMW does not move at our pace and I have read many successful outcomes but it took awhile and reasonable dialog.

In my book 4 weeks would be too long let alone 4 months!

I hope you get it resolved.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
The tank and fuel system was drained and dry gas was added.
New battery installed.
Fuel pump verified as working
Verified no cracked hoses in the fuel pump assembly
Spark verified.
Don't know myself what the fuel line pressure should be but it seemed to be a lot to me.
Verified injectors are clean and working.
Stored in a warm (50 F) critter free garage.
ECU not verified.

Now I'm just waiting for the replacement fuel pump but there are none in the US and they are checking to see if BMW has any in stock.
 

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Bit of sugar in gas tank will do that to engine :confused:
 
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