New Tires -- Cost of Tires - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 34 Old Apr 17th, 2006, 11:09 am Thread Starter
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New Tires -- Cost of Tires

After finding a nail in the rear tire yesterday looks like I'm getting a new set of tires. My '05 came with Bridgestone BT020s; local dealer recommends Metzler ME880s. Now, I know that the various brands of tires have different followers among us, but I'm curious about the following:

1. Would YOU replace the 020s with Metzlers? Pros and cons of each?
2. They are charging me $415 + tax for the pair. My LT has 6500 miles on it now, and the front is definitely cupped (feathered). I've been running 42/48 psi but haven't been faithful about checking it.

Don't get me wrong: I can't complain too much about the price because I'm leaving Wednesday after work for STC II and today is the only day I can get the tires issue resolved AND the dealer is working me into his schedule. My home dealer is booked for 3 weeks.

Comments, please. Thanks.

Howard Schisler
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2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
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post #2 of 34 Old Apr 17th, 2006, 11:24 am
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Smile I'm with Dave

on this one. I run the BT radials to because I don't want to worry about wet weather traction. I buy my tires from the same vendor and get great service every time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDragon
I don't like the Metz tires, too noisy for me and the extended wear life is a poor trade off for the reduced traction in wet weather.

I run BT020s and prefer radials.
I have plugged BT020s with success but as a general rule would not plug a tire I'm about to do a road trip on.

Save the old tire and get it heat patched on the inside.

I get the BT020s from www.swmototires.com for $205.00 to the door.

looking around for a possible replacement



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post #3 of 34 Old Apr 17th, 2006, 11:29 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrehder
on this one. I run the BT radials to because I don't want to worry about wet weather traction. I buy my tires from the same vendor and get great service every time.
Dave and John,

So help me understand: you're saying the Bridgestone radials are better in wet weather, correct?

Is my present tire (BT020) a radial?

Dealer told me he didn't like the Bridgestones because they don't handle the bike's weight as well as the Metzlers. What's the bottom line on all of the tire choices? I guess I'll take better dry and/or wet traction over longer tire life, but it's not clear to me which is the way to go.

Also: if I get the tire patched can I use it again, and if so, when would I want to -- local riding only? I'm not riding the LT to STC this week, it's being trailered.

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #4 of 34 Old Apr 17th, 2006, 11:32 am
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My '99 LT has the Metzelers and my '03 has the BT020. I love them both... for different reasons (longevity on the ME and wet grip in the BT). I live in SOCAL when rain is scarse so the ME are OK, but I bought the BTs for my other bike because I went to pick it up in Pittsburgh last month and I knew I would get a lot of rain (and I was NOT dissapointed! ).
Either way both brands/models of tires are a good fit for the bike, and you may want to choose based on your type of weather.

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post #5 of 34 Old Apr 17th, 2006, 11:45 am
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i rode the heck out of my mez in really hard rain never noticed any slidding rode em hard on the dragon in dry cond didnt notice any thing just replaced the back with an mez @16500 and that was with stock pressure now i know to change it. just my point though every one is diffrent

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post #6 of 34 Old Apr 17th, 2006, 11:58 am
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Howard,
My 06 went through the front in 7,000 miles. My front also cupped. My opinion they cupp due to incorrect tire pressure...42 is too low on the front ..I recommend 2 or 3 psi higher to prevent the cupping. The rear was almost gone also ..I just purchased a new set of Metzler for $300.00 installed...You can alway find a good deal if you know how to bargin..Just go the another motorcycle shop and tell them what the your dealer quoted and want you want to pay. There is too much profit for dealer in tires...The Cost on complete set of tires is usually less than 200.00.. Getting cost prices is difficult. The Metlzers 880 will last longer! Depending on how you drive? Unless you can push the tire tire to it limits there is not much differences. Only a few drivers can push a front tire to the limits and keep the bike up! Coming from the Road racing background I have seen many drivers push past these limits. You will get many different opinions here at this site. Use you own judgement and without changing or experimenting you will never know for yourself .....

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post #7 of 34 Old Apr 17th, 2006, 12:06 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
Dave and John,

So help me understand: you're saying the Bridgestone radials are better in wet weather, correct?

Is my present tire (BT020) a radial?

Dealer told me he didn't like the Bridgestones because they don't handle the bike's weight as well as the Metzlers. What's the bottom line on all of the tire choices? I guess I'll take better dry and/or wet traction over longer tire life, but it's not clear to me which is the way to go.

Also: if I get the tire patched can I use it again, and if so, when would I want to -- local riding only? I'm not riding the LT to STC this week, it's being trailered.
I went through at least 8 sets of BT020 radials to one set of 880s, and they handle the weight of the LT just fine. I actually got BETTER mileage on the rear 020s, but considerably less mileage on the front. To me the 020s handled better, and the rear wet grip was MUCH better.

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post #8 of 34 Old Apr 17th, 2006, 12:15 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
I went through at least 8 sets of BT020 radials to one set of 880s, and they handle the weight of the LT just fine. I actually got BETTER mileage on the rear 020s, but considerably less mileage on the front. To me the 020s handled better, and the rear wet grip was MUCH better.
Thanks David, and everybody else. If more comments, please send 'em.

Right now I'm confused as all get out over the differences, differing experiences, dealer recommendation v. yours, etc. It should be easier, but it's like oil and windshields -- lots of varying experiences. I appreciate the feedback.

Howard Schisler
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2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #9 of 34 Old Apr 17th, 2006, 12:31 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
Dave and John,

So help me understand: you're saying the Bridgestone radials are better in wet weather, correct?

Is my present tire (BT020) a radial?

Dealer told me he didn't like the Bridgestones because they don't handle the bike's weight as well as the Metzlers. What's the bottom line on all of the tire choices? I guess I'll take better dry and/or wet traction over longer tire life, but it's not clear to me which is the way to go.

Also: if I get the tire patched can I use it again, and if so, when would I want to -- local riding only? I'm not riding the LT to STC this week, it's being trailered.

Last time I went to a dealer I ear the same, in my opinion, BS.
At time time, looked like the dealer was trying to promote his Metz tires. But I'm not expert on it.
I have been using BT020 since my second pair of tires, on my old 1999 LT. Used Metz only once, last year, on a trip to Alaska, and just because I was too lazy to thinking about changing tires on the middle of the trip, but I regreted that, since the way back I got a lot of rain, and the tire was really scary to ride on the rain.
The BT020 will handle the weight of the K12LT. It will wear fast because it has more grip. You cannot have grip and miles on the same tire... (is it "messenger" who always say: "Good, Fast and Cheap. Pick 2" ?
The price coted for you is quite high, but if you are in a hurry, don't see any other option. There are some web sites who sell BT020 for almost half of this cote.
The BT020 on your 2005LT most like are Bias, not the Radial model.
I used both and could not tell a real difference on grip, but on the other hand, I'm not a pegs scrapper, so maybe if you are, you will notice a difference between the Bias and Radial BT020.
The Metz are good for mileage. Only that on my opinion, but it's interesting that there are many other riders here who will tell you otherwise, so my advise is use both and decide which one is better for you...

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post #10 of 34 Old Apr 17th, 2006, 12:40 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strsout
Last time I went to a dealer I ear the same, in my opinion, BS.
At time time, looked like the dealer was trying to promote his Metz tires. But I'm not expert on it.
I have been using BT020 since my second pair of tires, on my old 1999 LT. Used Metz only once, last year, on a trip to Alaska, and just because I was too lazy to thinking about changing tires on the middle of the trip, but I regreted that, since the way back I got a lot of rain, and the tire was really scary to ride on the rain.
The BT020 will handle the weight of the K12LT. It will wear fast because it has more grip. You cannot have grip and miles on the same tire... (is it "messenger" who always say: "Good, Fast and Cheap. Pick 2" ?
The price coted for you is quite high, but if you are in a hurry, don't see any other option. There are some web sites who sell BT020 for almost half of this cote.
The BT020 on your 2005LT most like are Bias, not the Radial model.
I used both and could not tell a real difference on grip, but on the other hand, I'm not a pegs scrapper, so maybe if you are, you will notice a difference between the Bias and Radial BT020.
The Metz are good for mileage. Only that on my opinion, but it's interesting that there are many other riders here who will tell you otherwise, so my advise is use both and decide which one is better for you...
Thanks.

To clarify: the price I was quoted ($419 + tax) is out the door -- tires, mounting, and balancing. Still high...

Next time, when I have more time, I'll get the tires myself online.

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #11 of 34 Old Apr 17th, 2006, 12:45 pm
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Just to make sure you understood Elton, the 05 uses a bias BT020, not radial.



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post #12 of 34 Old Apr 17th, 2006, 1:02 pm
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Howard,

The 05 gets Bias Bridgestone 020's not the radials. 05 front end geometry was changed from previous years and as a result a bias tire was commissioned from Bridgestone specifically for the 05 and now 06 bikes. I am on my fourth set of the 020's and this is what I now believe about this tire.

They handle wet very well, never slipped except on painted lines and I have ridden in some very nasty stuff with them.

I have always run 36/42 per factory recomendation in this tire and I check pressure almost every ride. Interestingly, each set of tires varies significantly in tire life. I have had over 12,000 on a set and as little as 8,000 miles.

I believe every 020 tire that comes off the line is very much different in roundness and balance.

I believe the shape and balance of the set you happen to get is more responsible for tire life than anything else assuming the tire is always properly inflated.

I am completely convinced the major cause of the infamous head shake is related to variances in each tire. I have had severe head shake and none at all just by changing tires. At one time I actually had three different tires and a different wheel on the bike and still had the head shake. On the fourth front tire the shake went away.

I will stay with the 020 because I like the balance of tire life and traction. I am sorry I don't have any experience with the 880's to compare but I hope this helps with your discission.

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post #13 of 34 Old Apr 17th, 2006, 1:04 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
Just to make sure you understood Elton, the 05 uses a bias BT020, not radial.
Yes... make sure on that.
On pre-2005 you can now choose BT020 Bias or Radial, but 2005, 2006 models you have to use Bias.

Sorry... the way I wrote would lead to a misinterpretation.
Thank you Grif

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post #14 of 34 Old Apr 17th, 2006, 1:41 pm
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The bottom line

I guess the bottom line is, BT020, softer compound = better grip but shorter life.

Metzler, harder compound = longer life but not as good traction. Especially on wet roads. Those who ride in the rain a lot usually use the BT020's

The Metzlers are noisier when they cup due to the harder compound.

I am fixing to buy the BT020 BIAS tires for my 99 LT.

Hope this helps..

John

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post #15 of 34 Old Apr 17th, 2006, 3:12 pm
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Heh, heh...

All's I can say if if yer gonna go deer jumping, the Metz tires work just fine!!! DAMHIK

The BT's? I dunno 'cause I ain't gonna jump any more deers to find out!!!! (_*_)

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post #16 of 34 Old Apr 17th, 2006, 3:18 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawg
Heh, heh...

All's I can say if if yer gonna go deer jumping, the Metz tires work just fine!!! DAMHIK

The BT's? I dunno 'cause I ain't gonna jump any more deers to find out!!!! (_*_)

LOL!!!!!
Ya gonna stop just when you were gettin GOOD?

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post #17 of 34 Old Apr 17th, 2006, 3:51 pm
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What pressure should the Bridgestones have

Hello Guys,

What pressure do you have in your bridgestones?

As most of us here, I am not the most religious at checking my tyre pressure, but I never want to ride on a front tyre like the previous Metzler I mentioned here a while back, it had worn onthe sides and left this little hump in the centre. It was terrible. Someone mentioned at the time that riding with the front under-inflated might couse this, your knowledge is welcome,

On another note, what is the downside of having a tyre over inflated. I imagine they will not pop unless they are extremely over inflated and I am not talking about that much, just curious.

Thanks

Mark

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post #18 of 34 Old Apr 17th, 2006, 4:01 pm
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If that price includes removing the wheels, mounting and balancing and re-installing the wheels, the price is about right from a dealer.

Dave
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and Pawleys Island, SC
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post #19 of 34 Old Apr 17th, 2006, 4:28 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpspen

Metzler, harder compound = longer life but not as good traction. Especially on wet roads. Those who ride in the rain a lot usually use the BT020's
Does 60K in 20 months qualify me as one rides a lot?
Cuz I dont find this to be the case in rain a lot (although its been kinda dry lately) Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Miss, NC, SC, TN etc, you get the idea.
I use Metzlers.

Mike
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post #20 of 34 Old Apr 17th, 2006, 4:42 pm
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well it sounds like those of us on metz are either dang good riders or fools .I really have never felt the old girl slid in a rainstorm and i don't slow down. I cant say for the other tire cause i just have not rode on it.but to each his own I wish you the best in your choice and as for the cost unless you wanna do it6 your self the price sounds dang good to me but i rather ride than change tires to save a dollar.

Jim Giordano
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post #21 of 34 Old Apr 17th, 2006, 5:02 pm
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The O20's grip BETTER in the wet. There's nada wrong with the Metz's they just don't grip AS WELL. Of course, this is just my opinion, I have an asshole and I am an asshole.

I've run two sets of Metz's (the last set wasn't voluntary, all they had, and I needed them now). Once again, softer compound=less mileage better grip, harder compound=more mileage less grip. I think the Moto GP dood's have this one figured out. Oh yeah, conversely, I reckon this holds true in the wet, too.

The honest truth, I didn't even wear the Metz's down too far. I had to get them off quick, couldn't stand the feel, nor the sound in the corners.

Then again, I had a 60 mph get off in the rain on a straight road running O20's, but I had hit a nasty oil slick, courtesy of Farmer John. I don't think sandpaper tires woulda saved me on that one.



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post #22 of 34 Old Apr 17th, 2006, 5:19 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
...
Dealer told me he didn't like the Bridgestones because they don't handle the bike's weight as well as the Metzlers....
There's a survey here on the board about the BT020's tendency to delaminate. When I see a tire come apart, I think it's either a defect in design or manufacturing, or overloaded. Tire equation should maybe include:

better mileage <or> better grip
may slip in wet <or> may disintegrate

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post #23 of 34 Old Apr 17th, 2006, 6:12 pm
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Quote:
I get the BT020s from www.swmototires.com for $205.00 to the door.
Get yourself a tire changer...either buy a machine, or find an independent shop to change them for you. Mine charges $15 per tire mounted and balanced if I take it in to him. Look for racing tire providers or independent shops regardless of brand that might do the service for you.

If that $415 is installed and balanced, you'd only be saving $210 per set, since you would not be paying (@$30) sales tax on the swmototires. If they like to charge about $30 to $40 dollars per tire at most dealerships, you're going to spend 1/2 the money by doing the work yourself. That is about what it works out on any set of tires from my experience. to recap the numbers:
Dealer: $415 + $30 tax + $60 install = $505
Independent: $205 + $30 install = $235
Net savings: $270

Oh, yeah, I get a bit dirty and swear a bit every time I have to screw with the front calipers, but then I think of the numbers, and I feel better.

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post #24 of 34 Old Apr 17th, 2006, 7:18 pm
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tires

i bought a new LT in 03 it came with bridgestones. at 12449 miles on I-85 south-two up w/luggage and running aprox. 75 mph. i had the rear tire delaminate. now that will get your attention like RIGHT NOW. after that little experence i wouldn't put a bridgestone tire on my wheelborrow. nothing but metzelers for me. i just use a little common sense and slow down on wet roads.
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post #25 of 34 Old Apr 17th, 2006, 10:51 pm Thread Starter
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Final Update

OK, folks. First: thank you to all for responding. All suggestions, comments, experiences, and tall tales are tucked away for future reference!

Dealer installed 2 new Metzeler (guess I was misspelling it previously!) tires, $412 total -- out the door. I rode home with them earlier this evening and all I can comment on at this time is how smooth it was to not have the cupped tire on front. Very nice.

I'll be at STC II on Thursday with 6k service done and new tires. Let it rain; I'll just ride even slower!

I should mention: I rode the bike to work today (54 miles) and then to the dealer (6 miles) to get the new tires. Every little bump made me think the rear tire -- the one with the nail in it -- was about to go. Funny how the mind plays tricks on us. Between riding home and then taking wife and son (separately -- duh) on some joy rides around the home area I just put over 100 miles on the new set of tires.

The tires just taken off my '05 were Bridgestone 020s; this tire change is my first ever on a m/c, so I will soon have something to compare them to.

Thanks again.

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #26 of 34 Old Apr 18th, 2006, 8:20 am
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Now that you have 100 miles on your new tires they are officially scrubbed in. Let 'er rip!

BTW, if you don't want to wait for the 100 mile thang, run her down a gravel road a few miles, or do a circuitous thang on your driveway for awhile. That'll scrub them in.



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post #27 of 34 Old Apr 18th, 2006, 9:31 am
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Tires

Tires I use metzlers, don't know about milage.
I can feel the wear as they get close to needing replaced, while riding. (don't know if that is the tire or the bike)
No matter how booked your dealer, is they should be able to get you in for tires, especially if you take in the just the wheels.
Remember first 200 mile break in.
Rock

http://www.americanmototire.com/
The lower one is their price.

BRIDGESTONE BT020-M 120/70B-17 FRONT $143.95 $87.01






BRIDGESTONE BT020-M 160/70B-17 REAR $183.95 $111.30
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post #28 of 34 Old Apr 18th, 2006, 12:04 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
Now that you have 100 miles on your new tires they are officially scrubbed in. Let 'er rip!

BTW, if you don't want to wait for the 100 mile thang, run her down a gravel road a few miles, or do a circuitous thang on your driveway for awhile. That'll scrub them in.
You know, this whole concept of "scrubbing in" tires has me confused. I thought I understood (thanks to all), but then the shop where I bought the tires yesterday basically said this (paraphrasing): "New tires can be very slippery. Be careful for the first 100 miles -- don't do any fancy leans, tight curves, etc. Take it easy." I rode it home so carefully -- tip-toeing around corners and such (you have to see it) -- that I almost blew right threw a curve because I was afraid to lean the darn thing.

That said: is this somehow different than doing circles in the driveway, or what is it you are describing? Sorry to be so literal on this topic, but it's just me.

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #29 of 34 Old Apr 18th, 2006, 12:14 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
You know, this whole concept of "scrubbing in" tires has me confused. I thought I understood (thanks to all), but then the shop where I bought the tires yesterday basically said this (paraphrasing): "New tires can be very slippery. Be careful for the first 100 miles -- don't do any fancy leans, tight curves, etc. Take it easy." I rode it home so carefully -- tip-toeing around corners and such (you have to see it) -- that I almost blew right threw a curve because I was afraid to lean the darn thing.

That said: is this somehow different than doing circles in the driveway, or what is it you are describing? Sorry to be so literal on this topic, but it's just me.
You have to lean, as far as possible, to get the slick surface and mold release off the surface. You just don't want to do that at high speed! If you do the first miles making tight turns at basically parking lot speeds, that will do it. Low speed tight turns put very little centrifugal force on the bike, so it is mostly the weight of the bike pushing fairly straight down on the tire, so it will not slip. Higher speed turning puts a large outward force on them, so if there is any tendancy for them to slip, they may. Just spend as much time as you can at city street speeds, around corners at stop lights/signs riding as you always would before hitting the twisties.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

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EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
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post #30 of 34 Old Apr 18th, 2006, 12:19 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
You have to lean, as far as possible, to get the slick surface and mold release off the surface. You just don't want to do that at high speed! If you do the first miles making tight turns at basically parking lot speeds, that will do it. Low speed tight turns put very little centrifugal force on the bike, so it is mostly the weight of the bike pushing fairly straight down on the tire, so it will not slip. Higher speed turning puts a large outward force on them, so if there is any tendancy for them to slip, they may. Just spend as much time as you can at city street speeds, around corners at stop lights/signs riding as you always would before hitting the twisties.
Got it -- thanks!

All my miles yesterday were highway miles of type or another -- 55-65 mph.
A couple of miles in town, but only a couple of turns. I think I'll take it to a nearby gravel road to finish the job in case any of that stuff is still on the tire. Would hate to wipe out at STC later this week.

The dealer also said that just running in a straight line would help scrub the tire -- the tire gets warm enough to wear the gunk off. Is that correct?

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #31 of 34 Old Apr 18th, 2006, 12:20 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danbrown
-------------after that little experence i wouldn't put a bridgestone tire on my wheelborrow. nothing but metzelers for me.
Not to worry, there are plenty of us here who will use all the ones you won't.
Quote:

i just use a little common sense and slow down on wet roads.
I did that too, probably more than most, but the damned 880's still scared me too many times to ignore.

You can run all the 880's that I wouldn't.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.
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post #32 of 34 Old Apr 18th, 2006, 3:59 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
That said: is this somehow different than doing circles in the driveway, or what is it you are describing? Sorry to be so literal on this topic, but it's just me.
You have a gravel driveway, by turning laps in it, you will scrub your tires



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post #33 of 34 Old Apr 18th, 2006, 9:15 pm
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Rain Metzlers

I have never had any rain problems with the 880's, in Fact one of my riding buddies on a breakfast run stated
"These are the best 90mph road holding tires in the rain since Pirelli changed their rubber compound" I think it hit us both at the same time that maybe we shouldn't be going 90 in the rain, because we busted out laughing.
Also had them on when I went to pick up my trailer, in Addison Ill., coming back wanted to see how the trailer tracked, 100mph in the rain no problems. Then it dawned on me that the trailer tires weren't V or Z rated, so I slowed down.
Maybe I'm just lucky with tires, but my gas milage stinks.
Rock
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post #34 of 34 Old Apr 18th, 2006, 9:29 pm Thread Starter
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Thanks

Thanks to all -- again. The LT is on the POS Uhaul trailer ready to head out to STC II tomorrow, after work. No more scrubbing in until we hit the Dragon!

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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