Dealer Issue - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 22 Old Jun 17th, 2019, 8:37 am Thread Starter
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Dealer Issue

I'll go into the whole story later, but I had my 2 RT's brought into the dealer for the 12k/24k valve check and cam chain timing. I did all the other work myself (plus, oil, air filter, etc). I'm just not comfortable doing valve checks so I have the dealer do that. But after my fiasco, I might be second guessing that.

Anyway, if you don't drain all the oil at the time of the valve check, does some of the oil need to be drained anyway? If so, about how much is lost?
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post #2 of 22 Old Jun 17th, 2019, 10:38 am
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Re: Dealer Issue

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Originally Posted by 92merc View Post
I'll go into the whole story later, but I had my 2 RT's brought into the dealer for the 12k/24k valve check and cam chain timing. I did all the other work myself (plus, oil, air filter, etc). I'm just not comfortable doing valve checks so I have the dealer do that. But after my fiasco, I might be second guessing that.

Anyway, if you don't drain all the oil at the time of the valve check, does some of the oil need to be drained anyway? If so, about how much is lost?
Do they need doing? Why not wait until the next service, get the valve clearances done first, then when you get the bike home, do the oil change.

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post #3 of 22 Old Jun 17th, 2019, 11:04 am Thread Starter
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Re: Dealer Issue

Well, I did my oil changes before leaving because they were both due a bit earlier, and it was a 300 mile ride to the dealer. I checked both bikes oil levels BEFORE leaving on the trip. They were both at 3/4 of the oil circle. After leaving the dealer, and riding about 75 miles, I got a "check oil level warning" on my RT. I immediately pulled over. After a 5 minute wait on the side stand, the oil was barely visible in the glass. I checked the wife's bike and the oil level was fine, still at 3/4.



So the short story is I had to ride into Rapid City, get some oil, ride back. Top off the bike. Ended up missing dinner with my sister and her family, plus being out of 2 hours of riding. After topping off the oil and riding back for about 400 miles, the oil level is still fine.



So in my opinion, the dealer had to have drained some oil or something. The bike was fine before leaving, it's fine now. It didn't magically disappear. They are just lucky the bike warned me and I was able to stop immediately as I caught the warning within a minute. Had I been trucking down the interstate, I wouldn't have caught it as quickly and could have caused engine damage. I'm hoping since I was literally looking at the dash when I saw the warning pop up, I probably avoided damage. But I'm not a happy camper to say the lease.

Last edited by 92merc; Jun 17th, 2019 at 11:29 am.
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post #4 of 22 Old Jun 17th, 2019, 11:37 am
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Re: Dealer Issue

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Originally Posted by 92merc View Post
I'll go into the whole story later, but I had my 2 RT's brought into the dealer for the 12k/24k valve check and cam chain timing. I did all the other work myself (plus, oil, air filter, etc). I'm just not comfortable doing valve checks so I have the dealer do that. But after my fiasco, I might be second guessing that.

Anyway, if you don't drain all the oil at the time of the valve check, does some of the oil need to be drained anyway? If so, about how much is lost?
Well some oil is going to be lost when you remove the valve covers...


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post #5 of 22 Old Jun 17th, 2019, 11:41 am Thread Starter
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Re: Dealer Issue

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Well some oil is going to be lost when you remove the valve covers...
I'm just trying to find out how much. Because in about 300 miles, I lost almost a quart.
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post #6 of 22 Old Jun 17th, 2019, 12:32 pm
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Re: Dealer Issue

I think I would have just kept riding. Back in the day we called the <!> symbol the hill alert.
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post #7 of 22 Old Jun 17th, 2019, 1:39 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Dealer Issue

For me, I'd rather lose a couple of hours topping off the oil than risk engine damage. I have to to hear of any water cooled boxers having oil issues. Usage or low warnings.
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post #8 of 22 Old Jun 17th, 2019, 1:52 pm
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Re: Dealer Issue

I haven't taken the time to measure the amount of oil contained in the valve covers but would guess it's less than 1/2 quart. I recall JVB commenting on the issue in his Wethead DVD.
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post #9 of 22 Old Jun 17th, 2019, 2:36 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Dealer Issue

Yeah, 1/2 quart is more in line with what I thought as well. I have the JVB video and have watched them. That's probably where I thought that. And if I had my two bikes mixed up and the '17 was at 3/4 quart and mine was at 1/2 quart, then down half a quart would be a lot closer to what I'm actually seeing.

I was going to look at my 4 quart jug I had to buy and see how much I actually added. I just forgot about that after getting home and unpacking.
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post #10 of 22 Old Jun 17th, 2019, 2:48 pm
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Re: Dealer Issue

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Originally Posted by 92merc View Post
I'm just trying to find out how much. Because in about 300 miles, I lost almost a quart.
You can loose up to 10 oz or so. A lot can lie in the valve covers.

It only takes a few oz's to move the oil in the site glass once you see it in the glass. It does NOT take a quart.

Also to check the oil, run to temp, shut off, set it on center stand, wait 5 mins, check level.

It has to be 5 mins from shut down to get a accurate oil level.

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post #11 of 22 Old Jun 17th, 2019, 3:07 pm
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Re: Dealer Issue

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For me, I'd rather lose a couple of hours topping off the oil than risk engine damage. I have to to hear of any water cooled boxers having oil issues. Usage or low warnings.
You were never in any danger. You could still see oil in the sight glass, even it was below the line.

The manual says to check the oil the next time you stop for fuel, not stop.

I'm only pointing this out because you're trying to blame the dealer for a non event. Next time let them change the oil too or don't change it before the valve check. Or carry oil with you.
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post #12 of 22 Old Jun 17th, 2019, 3:19 pm
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Re: Dealer Issue

You indeed will lose 8-10 oz of oil when the valve covers are removed, more is lost from the left side for whatever reason. I would expect the dealer to be aware of this and properly refill the sump before returning the bike to the customer. I would mention it to the service manager so there could be a conversation with the tech about the issue. I have noticed on my ‘15 if the oil level is below the middle of the circle I can get an oil level warning. Stopping to check the level and resuming my ride usually clears the light.

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post #13 of 22 Old Jun 17th, 2019, 4:15 pm
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Re: Dealer Issue

Left side because maybe the bike is on the side stand?

I usually lean the bike over as far as I can hold it after it sat overnight. Lean left then right if your physically able to hold that much weight. That will minimize the amount of oil lose. If not then top off the oil level when all is said and done. No big deal.
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post #14 of 22 Old Jun 17th, 2019, 4:25 pm
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Re: Dealer Issue

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Originally Posted by 92merc View Post
They are just lucky the bike warned me and I was able to stop immediately as I caught the warning within a minute. Had I been trucking down the interstate, I wouldn't have caught it as quickly and could have caused engine damage. I'm hoping since I was literally looking at the dash when I saw the warning pop up, I probably avoided damage.
It's an oil level light... not oil pressure. Take time to learn the difference so the next time you don't freak out and miss dinner....
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post #15 of 22 Old Jun 17th, 2019, 5:59 pm
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Re: Dealer Issue

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Left side because maybe the bike is on the side stand?

I usually lean the bike over as far as I can hold it after it sat overnight. Lean left then right if your physically able to hold that much weight. That will minimize the amount of oil lose. If not then top off the oil level when all is said and done. No big deal.
No, I always put it on the centerstand in the garage, immediately after riding. It just seems like the left valve cover retains a little more oil than the right.

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post #16 of 22 Old Jun 17th, 2019, 9:43 pm
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Re: Dealer Issue

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I'm just trying to find out how much. Because in about 300 miles, I lost almost a quart.
I don't remember the reasons why, but I did my 12K service, but had to go back into the valves (I think it was because I wasn't fully certain about the numbers I saw). I believe I loss less than a quart of oil, and really, I believe the amount was closer to half a quart. There isn't a lot of oil in there when it's just sitting.

At my next 12K service, I am going to have the shop check the timing and valves (mostly because I had a few that looked like they were about due for replacement at the last check), but I am going to do the rest of the service myself.

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post #17 of 22 Old Jun 17th, 2019, 10:37 pm
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Re: Dealer Issue

Well, the valves should be done cold and for me, that means doing the valve adjustment first and then warming it up to drain the oil later, so no new oil lost, but that's in my own garage where I let the bike sit overnight before doing all that.
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post #18 of 22 Old Jun 18th, 2019, 8:19 am
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Re: Dealer Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by 92merc View Post
I'm just trying to find out how much. Because in about 300 miles, I lost almost a quart.
You will be amazed as to how much oil is trapped in the valve covers! Not a quart, but a very noticeable amount.



Let's see, if I recalled correctly, when I did an oil change without emptying the valve covers (just the one time, very early on), 4 quarts of fresh oil took the level in the sight glass (after running to distribute the oil into the filter, etc.) to a little over 3/4 level. Subsequent oil changes, when I always empty out the valve covers, 4 quarts bring the level to almost exactly at the 1/2 level line on the sight glass.

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post #19 of 22 Old Jun 18th, 2019, 9:26 am Thread Starter
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Re: Dealer Issue

I checked 4 qt jug I had used, and it shows I put in just shy of 3/4 of a quart. I glugged some oil on the road when filling. So conservatively I filled probably 1/2 quart. And that brought me from the very bottom of the site glass to 3/4 of the middle circle. And that was on the centerstand and after almost an hour later until I got back to the bike.

I agree, the bike level check feature saved my arse. So there shouldn't be any "major" damage. But the dealer should have checked oil levels before returning it to me. When I left home the day before, I was somewhere between 1/2 and 3/4 circle on a cold engine. When I filled the bike up, engine would have been cold as well an hour later. So the 1/2 quart my jug reports is about right.

I played phone tag with my dealer yesterday. So didn't get to talk to them. I'm sure it'll be "are you sure?". And then "No damage done, but welp, sorry". That'll probably be about it.
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post #20 of 22 Old Jun 18th, 2019, 7:42 pm
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Re: Dealer Issue

Thanks for sharing.

1. When my '18 RT went in for its 600-mile oil change (done at ~ 900 miles; couldn't stay off the thing!) I failed to check the oil level when leaving the dealer. The level was over the top of the sight glass. Had I checked, I could have had them correct it on the spot. You better believe that's the last time I leave the dealer without checking the level. This seems like another reason to adopt this practice. It might have prevented some headache/heartache in your case.

2. As long as you didn't get a low oil pressure warning your engine has not been harmed, "major" or otherwise.

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post #21 of 22 Old Jun 19th, 2019, 7:55 am
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Re: Dealer Issue

BTW, Merc, did the dealer check the cam position sensor as well? Like you, I also had my dealer tech (whom I know to be excellent in his work) check my cam timing, the last time that the RT went in for new tires. The finding was that the cam timing on my RT was spot on, BUT the cam position sensor was off, and so that was adjusted to spec. Since that also affect timing, he also reset the adaptive values in the computer as well. Oh, my RT was delivered back with the right amount of oil, which was the same as when it went in, and so he did add oil automatically.

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post #22 of 22 Old Jun 19th, 2019, 8:43 am Thread Starter
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Re: Dealer Issue

Yeah, it's funny. Both of my RT's the valves were good. My 24k '15 all the valves were either dead center, or within 1mm of dead center. The wife's '17 wasn't as consistent. But none of the valves needed adjusting.

But both RT's did need the cam chain timing adjusted. Wife's bike was at 12k.

It might be my imagination, but I swear the bike does fire up easier. Once in a great while, I'd get a sputter. I just know when I hear that, stop cranking and wait 3 seconds. Then hit it a second time. It seems to happen most often on cold bike when temps are over 90. It hasn't been 90 yet this year, so I'll wait and see.

I've been busy at work and haven't had the time to call the dealer back. After reading everything, I think there was no harm done. But I will be letting them know I'm not happy they didn't check the oil. In the future, if I do take it back to them for valve checks, I'll be taking a picture of oil level when I drop it off, and when I pick it up. No disputing that.
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