Schuberth J1, reveiwed... - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 26 Old Jan 13th, 2006, 4:47 pm Thread Starter
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Schuberth J1, reveiwed...

I got my J1 a couple of weeks ago, haven't seen anyone comment on them so here goes:

Fit is like the new Schuberths, I got one size bigger than my old Schuberths, and it fits the same. The chin bar is in fact some sort of plastic, but is a very stiff piece of goods. It releases from the helmet with a catch on each side. The directions suggest removing it to don and doff the helmet, but that is too fiddley for me. When installed, the chin bar stiffens the helmet '"ears" significantly. Without it you can stretch it over your ears like any ordinary open-face. With it, there is no give at all, so it scrapes your ears like a full-face. But you can just slam it on, no extra step of opening the clam like the C2. The Schuberth Profil was by far the best helmet to get on and off - 2 seconds either way including fastening the chin strap - but alas they are no longer made. The new Schuberth S1 is the other extreme, sort of like re-enacting birth.

Once inside the J1, the peripheral vision is superb. The brow is barely visible, the edges left and right just visible, the chin bar can only be seen by looking down slightly and concentrating on your down peripheral vision. if I look down hard, I can't see it at all.

The visor shuts tight, leaving just a waft of air coming under the chin bar at speed. It has a number of indents, the first keeping it just open with airflow more like a traditional open-faced, full shield helmet. There are thumb tabs to operate the visor. The indent fully closed is quite aggressive and takes some effort to overcome, both closing and opening. Maybe it will loosen with use.

The sun visor works OK. I prefer the straight across cut of the C2 (which I understand fits in the J1). The lower edge is high enough to be able to see the GPS underneath. If I slam the operating lever down, the visor overtravels on the right side, and then catches underneath the shell. Then to raise it I have to push it back in under the shell. If I am a bit more deliberate putting it down, no problems. I will look for adjustments on the stops.

The top vent works OK, not outstanding, but does draw some air up over your head.

On the road, I really like this helmet. it is noticeably quieter than the C2 while on the KLT. The C2 has a Jeckyl & Hyde character: On an unfaired bike it is the quietest helmet I have ever worn, but on the KLT Mr. Hyde comes out and it is noisier than most. Something about the aero-acoustics does not like the windscreen turbulence. The J1 though, seems as quiet tucked right up behind the windscreen as it does in the normal riding position. With the windscreen down, there is more noise, but as good as any helmet I own, including the full face ones.

This is now my preferred helmet on the KLT. On the unfaired bikes, the C2 is a bit quieter (and warmer in the cold) but the J1 isn't a bad choice either.
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post #2 of 26 Old Jan 13th, 2006, 6:48 pm
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Thanks for the review. Points well covered! With the KLT I can wear practically anything but I wear ear plugs and even a 1/2 helmet/brain bucket is quiet.

But, the K12S and R12GS are another story. And it seems as if you recommend it for non-windscreen bikes; guess am gonna have to try one out at the dealer.

Thanks again for the nice review.

John
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post #3 of 26 Old Jan 13th, 2006, 8:00 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpalamaro
And it seems as if you recommend it for non-windscreen bikes; guess am gonna have to try one out at the dealer.
To make sure I was clear, the C2 is quieter on my R1100RS (and the Vespa!), but the J1 isn't bad, and better than any other open-face. I doubt you are going to find it at a dealer in the US of A, I had to get it shipped from England. But who knows, maybe they will import the thing eventually.
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post #4 of 26 Old Jan 14th, 2006, 12:07 am
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Where did you buy the J1. My dealer doesn't have them...yet.

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post #5 of 26 Old Jan 14th, 2006, 9:19 am
 
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Quote:
The new Schuberth S1 is the other extreme, sort of like re-enacting birth.
That's a succinct, but accurate statement. I just bought an S1, mail-order, against my better judgement, since I don't think there are any available to try on anywhere near me.

I bought the same size I've always worn with other brands. When I pulled it out of the box and tried it on, I initially thought, man, this'll never work for me. The neck opening is heavily padded all the way around, and my ears are sore from getting the thing on and off. But, once on, it's a pretty good fit everywhere inside - it seems to satisfy all Schuberth's criteria for a good fit. Pulling the straps apart very aggressively putting it on helps with that part of the process.
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post #6 of 26 Old Jan 14th, 2006, 10:24 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronl2004
Where did you buy the J1. My dealer doesn't have them...yet.

RonL
I suspect that Schuberth USA will never import the J1 to the US, they seem to stick to only the mainstream here. I bought mine from England through www.slickbiker.com. Steve Cooper there took good care of me. I just emailed [email protected]. Before you order, go try on a C2 at a dealer somewhere, i found the fits to be the same.
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post #7 of 26 Old Jan 14th, 2006, 5:15 pm
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DDW,
Thanks for the J1 link.

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post #8 of 26 Old Jan 16th, 2006, 8:15 pm
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Thank you very much for the review. I have had my eye on this one and this only makes me want it more. I have not found them for sale in the US and was even told that they were not approved for the US. Probably meaning that Schuberth did not bother to do the DOT testing. Not the end of the world since it passes EU tests.

Would you mind sharing what you paid for yours? At least a ballpark with shipping and all?

Thanks,
Eric
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post #9 of 26 Old Jan 21st, 2006, 12:44 am Thread Starter
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It was 329 Pounds Sterling including shipping, which billed out to $569.04 on my card. Not inexpensive. Was air shipped and arrived in just a few days. I had tried to get one last summer, but Schuberth kept delaying the intro.

It carries the ECE mark, which is far more stringent than a DOT cert. A tin pan can get a DOT cert. Technically, in California anyway, you could get a helmet law violation ticket for wearing it, but don't lose any sleep over that, or the safety aspect.
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post #10 of 26 Old Jan 22nd, 2006, 8:16 pm
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Thanks for the numbers. From what I have seen so far, the UK sites are a little more expensive than some in the EU. I haven't checked to see if any of those other sites will ship to the US or not. The numbers I have seen are around $500, but that is before shipping & handling.

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post #11 of 26 Old Feb 6th, 2006, 8:08 pm
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Thanks

DDW, thanks for this review and the detailed info. I went to the Schuberth site and checked this helmet out. Do I understand correctly that is not a full-face helmet? It looks like an open-face, with a very large visor and a chin "protection bar" thingie; looks like a hybrid, and very interesting. I have attached a picture; please let me know if this is actuallyt he model you reviewed.

BTW: please update your profile, so we know who you are and where you are (unless it's your preference to remain anonymous, of course). It might help with some future Q&As.
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Howard Schisler
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2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #12 of 26 Old Feb 7th, 2006, 5:44 am
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Yes, that is it.

Howard,

Yes, that is the Schuberth J1. Yes, it is kind of a hybrid full/open face helmet. Although I would classify it more as open face with some added protection. I have been waiting for this helmet to come out since last summer. Doesn't look like you'll be able to buy one in the US anytime soon though.

Eric
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post #13 of 26 Old Feb 7th, 2006, 10:23 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecirwin
Howard,

Yes, that is the Schuberth J1. Yes, it is kind of a hybrid full/open face helmet. Although I would classify it more as open face with some added protection. I have been waiting for this helmet to come out since last summer. Doesn't look like you'll be able to buy one in the US anytime soon though.
I'm guess I'm curious as to how an open face helmet (even one with a large visor) can be quieter than any full-face or modular helmet. Any info on that?

I ask, because I'm looking to move from my open-face to a modular helmet. I'm going deaf with the open-face, and the exposed portion of my face freezes as I'm riding this time of year.

Howard Schisler
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2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
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post #14 of 26 Old Feb 7th, 2006, 2:08 pm
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Maybe not the quietest

I don't think that the J1 would be quieter than any other helmet. You have to keep in mind that a lot of noise comes from buffeting and a lack of seal between your ear canal and the outside world. In other words, the changes in pressure outside the helmet are finding their way to your ear. So, if the J1 has a good seal and does not buffet much, then it could be fairly quiet.

When I switched to the K1200LT, from my 1150GS, just the aerodynamics of the bike made it much quieter. I have read in many different places that a helmet that does not buffet on a bike without any fairings is very quiet. Often times quieter than any other bike/helmet combo they have ridden.

So, does any of this answer you questions? Probably not. Only an extended ride with any helmet/motorcycle combo will tell you exactly how it is going to feel and sound. Although reviews like the one at the begining of this thread are a good start.

Eric
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post #15 of 26 Old Feb 7th, 2006, 9:37 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecirwin
I don't think that the J1 would be quieter than any other helmet. You have to keep in mind that a lot of noise comes from buffeting and a lack of seal between your ear canal and the outside world. In other words, the changes in pressure outside the helmet are finding their way to your ear. So, if the J1 has a good seal and does not buffet much, then it could be fairly quiet.

So, does any of this answer you questions? Probably not. Only an extended ride with any helmet/motorcycle combo will tell you exactly how it is going to feel and sound. Although reviews like the one at the begining of this thread are a good start.
Eric
Let me clarify: I'm wondering how the Schuberth J1 (an open-face helmet) can be quieter than any closed-face helmet, as the reviewer said. My point is, if the area beneath the jawline is open to the outside air, wouldn't that have to result in some infusion of air into the helmet, creating noise? The J1 visor doesn't seal things up as on a full-face... The J1 must be one very close-fitting open-face helmet!

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2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #16 of 26 Old Feb 8th, 2006, 5:51 am
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I guess I can't answer from first hand experience, so maybe I shouldn't answer at all. I also am not sure where you are getting "quieter than any closed-face helmet". I doubt that it is the quietest helmet ever, even the reviewer in this thread did not say that. He said it was very quiet on the LT and acceptably quiet on another bike.

That being said, even a helmet without a face sheild can be quiet. As long as there isn't any buffeting (most of which comes from the bike/windsheild) and your ears a sealed from the rush of the outside air. When you factor in the sheild on the J1, the open area is similar to most full face helmets. The S1 would be an exception here as it really seals around your neck. I am sure there are others that do the same.

I guess the point is that an open face is not inherently noisy. The most important thing is to seal off the ears. The reviewer pointed out that the chin bar does add stiffness to the helmet, which makes it a little harder to pull on/off like most full face helmets. That added stiffness could lead to it sealing better and thus being quieter.

Again, I am not sure where you are getting the claim of quieter than any other helmet. Maybe Schuberth is making that claim, but even that doesn't make sense when you compare J1 to S1.

Eric
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post #17 of 26 Old Feb 8th, 2006, 7:05 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecirwin
I guess I can't answer from first hand experience, so maybe I shouldn't answer at all. I also am not sure where you are getting "quieter than any closed-face helmet". I doubt that it is the quietest helmet ever, even the reviewer in this thread did not say that. He said it was very quiet on the LT and acceptably quiet on another bike.

That being said, even a helmet without a face sheild can be quiet. As long as there isn't any buffeting (most of which comes from the bike/windsheild) and your ears a sealed from the rush of the outside air. When you factor in the sheild on the J1, the open area is similar to most full face helmets. The S1 would be an exception here as it really seals around your neck. I am sure there are others that do the same.

I guess the point is that an open face is not inherently noisy. The most important thing is to seal off the ears. The reviewer pointed out that the chin bar does add stiffness to the helmet, which makes it a little harder to pull on/off like most full face helmets. That added stiffness could lead to it sealing better and thus being quieter.

Again, I am not sure where you are getting the claim of quieter than any other helmet. Maybe Schuberth is making that claim, but even that doesn't make sense when you compare J1 to S1.
Eric
Eric, I appreciate your replies. Unfortunately I'm not making my question clear. I'll try this one last time, but it's a moot point, as I won't be buying this helmet (especially since it isn't available in the US at this time). My only interest in this product is out of curiosity at this time.

I'm not asking how the J1 is quieter than all full-face helmets; I'm asking how it can be quieter than any (pick 1 -- any one) full-face helmet. I was thinking the reviewer was saying that it was; I must be not understanding the Schuberth product line and the reviewer's references to same.

Another way of posing my question is this: how can an open-face helmet, by nature of its very design, be quieter than a full-face helmet? The answer may be "it can't". I was just curious.

Howard Schisler
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2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #18 of 26 Old Feb 8th, 2006, 10:17 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
I'm guess I'm curious as to how an open face helmet (even one with a large visor) can be quieter than any full-face or modular helmet. Any info on that?
I tried two full face helmets, one of them the Schuberth Concept(the noisest thing I ever had on my head), but the helmet I used extensively for nearly 100,000 miles was the Arai Sz/M, which is a 3/4 helmet with a flip up shield similar to the ones on their full face helmets. That was by far the quietest helmet I ever wore. Went through three of these!

When I bought the Schuberth Concept I had been wearing the Arai for some time, and on the first ride with the Concept I knew I had a problem as soon as I got to 35 MPH! Tried to get used to it, but ended up selling it at a big loss to get rid of the infernal noise.

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post #19 of 26 Old Feb 8th, 2006, 10:29 am
 
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when I switched from a 3/4 helmet to a full face I was shocked by how much noisier it was.

My thoughts about it (don't have enough data to form a theory) lead me to suspect that the openness of the 3/4 doesn't give a place for wind to eddy around
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post #20 of 26 Old Feb 8th, 2006, 10:41 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
I tried two full face helmets, one of them the Schuberth Concept(the noisest thing I ever had on my head), but the helmet I used extensively for nearly 100,000 miles was the Arai Sz/M, which is a 3/4 helmet with a flip up shield similar to the ones on their full face helmets. That was by far the quietest helmet I ever wore. Went through three of these!

When I bought the Schuberth Concept I had been wearing the Arai for some time, and on the first ride with the Concept I knew I had a problem as soon as I got to 35 MPH! Tried to get used to it, but ended up selling it at a big loss to get rid of the infernal noise.
Interesting, David. Once again an example, for me, about why not to make assumptions. I've only been riding since August, have only used an open-face helmet (so far), and assumed that any full-face helmet would just have to be quieter than any open-face helmets. You're saying that is not the case, correct?

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2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #21 of 26 Old Feb 8th, 2006, 11:38 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
Interesting, David. Once again an example, for me, about why not to make assumptions. I've only been riding since August, have only used an open-face helmet (so far), and assumed that any full-face helmet would just have to be quieter than any open-face helmets. You're saying that is not the case, correct?
True. Open face helmets are often quieter than full face. At least the APPARENT noise. Some full face helmets seem to "Trap" the wind noise inside, drowning out things you want to hear instead. I tried full face helmets for the added safety, but could not ride with them because of the noise factor.

I tried earplugs, but since I was doing a lot of endurance type riding could not wear them over a couple of hours without them really bothering me. I just decided that for comfort over long hours the difference between added protection of full face versus comfort and quietness of the 3/4 added up to me using the 3/4.

Look at the Arai Sz/M. It has a full flip shield, but no chin bar.

I had three MAJOR bike totaling, helmet destroying accidents with the Arai, no major head injuries. Heavy bruising on the left side in one accident (would have been the same with a full face) and just a little road rash on my nose and upper lip in the last accident when the shield was ripped off, but they have certainly served me well. If I ever get another bike, will likely get another Sz/M helmet.

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post #22 of 26 Old Feb 8th, 2006, 12:54 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
True. Open face helmets are often quieter than full face. At least the APPARENT noise. Some full face helmets seem to "Trap" the wind noise inside, drowning out things you want to hear instead. I tried full face helmets for the added safety, but could not ride with them because of the noise factor.

I tried earplugs, but since I was doing a lot of endurance type riding could not wear them over a couple of hours without them really bothering me. I just decided that for comfort over long hours the difference between added protection of full face versus comfort and quietness of the 3/4 added up to me using the 3/4.

Look at the Arai Sz/M. It has a full flip shield, but no chin bar.

I had three MAJOR bike totaling, helmet destroying accidents with the Arai, no major head injuries. Heavy bruising on the left side in one accident (would have been the same with a full face) and just a little road rash on my nose and upper lip in the last accident when the shield was ripped off, but they have certainly served me well. If I ever get another bike, will likely get another Sz/M helmet.
David, thanks for all this info. I will definitely take a good look at the Arai Sz/M. It was completely off my "radar" until now.

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2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #23 of 26 Old Jun 26th, 2006, 8:24 pm
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Well, I finally got around to ordering my J1 in May. It shipped the last day of May and it was delivered last week. Bad news is, I was out of town last week. Today was my first day to ride with it.

My first impressions on my 10 minute commute (60-65mph for about 3 miles of it) and running errands today, I am really impressed. The visibility is amazing, with almost nothing in the peripheral vision. I like the fit so far, but a longer ride will be required. The shield is perfectly clear and seems as if there isn't one there. Noise level is low in comparison to my 5 year old Arai Signet GT (see avatar). I love the shield release mechanism. The sun visor is OK, but doesn't come low enough for my tastes. I also like the reduced airflow around my eyes that wearing sun glasses adds. Leaving the sheild up a little gives more flow around the face.

I took lots of pictures of all the little details. I plan on posting everything on my blog and here, if I can figure out how to include pics in the body. I have a lot more to say, but will save it for my own post, hopefully later in the week.

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post #24 of 26 Old Jun 27th, 2006, 7:28 am
 
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I can't tell you why, but I can tell you that my 3/4 helmet is quieter than my Full face. If I were forced to make a guess I would say it is because there is no chamber for air to pool in when wearing a 3/4.
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post #25 of 26 Old Jun 27th, 2006, 10:59 am
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Even Odder

Quote:
Originally Posted by rixchard
I can't tell you why, but I can tell you that my 3/4 helmet is quieter than my Full face. If I were forced to make a guess I would say it is because there is no chamber for air to pool in when wearing a 3/4.
My 1/2 Seer Police Helmet is quieter than my Nolan (old) Flip.

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post #26 of 26 Old Jul 2nd, 2006, 11:54 pm
 
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Nice review, very appreciated. Just got my J1 today, and have been fiddling with it all day and looking forward to getting out tomorrow. Couple quick clarifications that may be helpful: The tinted visor is fairly easy to remove by simply tugging it on both left and right sides where it simply fits into its sockets, and if you do not have it fully pushed in on one side it is possible that could result in it catching on the front of the face opening. That is how mine was delivered and I figured it out, pushed sort of hard to click it in place and it is super secure, I do not imagine it will catch no matter how hard I might flip it with the lever. Also, the tinted visor has the "nose indentation" on the bottom, but in the manual it states that it can be turned upside down if you prefer it to be straight across the bottom. One other item in the manual worth mentioning is that the chin hoop is designed to redirect impact to the sides of the helmet, where it is very solidly integrated. I love this helmet so far, and look forward to using it as long as there's no snow on the ground. It's my fourth-or-so helmet I guess. Previous was a Shoei full face which got stolen in Providence, RI, great place to visit, but I no longer live there. They can keep it, I really was not impressed with it at all, it was heavy and hot and the cheaply made vents were useless. This is a nice helmet, everything I need ... it is very lightweight, comfortable and has excellent visibility. Full face is a great concept unless you get hit from the side because you couldn't see them because your helmet got in the way. Paid 290 GBP, $606.50 USD, from comeonsasha on eBay, aka Cissbury Leathers in GB. Very pleased.
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