Quick-release helmet chinstraps violate DOT stds? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 30 Old Jul 23rd, 2007, 2:01 pm Thread Starter
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Quick-release helmet chinstraps violate DOT stds?

Holy shmokes - I been violating the helmet standards in the U.S. for the past eight years!!! Yikes!! Coulda sworn the helmets I've worn were DOT approved. My Nolan's and the new Caberg have 'em, and they both are labeled DOT approved. Guess them Shoei folks know sumpthin' the others don't!

I can understand a CYA statement recommending against the use of quick release chinstraps, and then stating Shoei doesn't offer 'em; butt to say that "helmets sold here do not have quick release straps" isn't correct. (Unless he meant to say "*Shoei* helmets sold here........")

Anybody else wearing helmets with non-DOT-approved chinstraps?

========================================
Shoei's reply to my e-mail inquiry.
The reason that the quick release strap is shown, is because that's how the helmet is sold in Europe. In Europe, the helmets are built to meet different safety standards than here in the US.
The quick release strap meets standards in Europe, but not here in the US, so the helmets sold here do not have quick release straps. We do not suggest the use of any quick release straps for use here in the US.

Best Regards,

Shoei Safety Helmet Corp.
Patrick Houlihan
Technical Advisor
(714) 730-0941 ext 101

=====================================
My original message (edited) -----
From: Dick
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 17:04:48 -0500
Subject: Multitec chinstrap question.

Hello -

Last week, I purchased a Shoei Multitec flip-front helmet. The selling dealership installed a headset speaker/mic unit for me, and so far, I truly like everything about the helmet, except..... I've ridden a BMW K1200LT motorcycle since 1999, and have always used either a Nolan flip, or lately, an HJC flip. I liked both of those helmets also, but on the advice of a riding friend, I decided to try the Shoei this time. And like I said, I do like it; the fit is right for me; the noise factor is good; the flip operation is good; the ventilation is good; and the comfort is good.

However .... I'm not into D-ring chinstraps. I've been spoiled by the Nolans and the HJC, and my ATGATT dress-up and ride routine is pretty habitual. Soooo - I'm asking, is there a modification to the Multitec that will allow me
to install and use the 'buckle' type chinstrap closing system, as on the Nolans and HJCs? I don't want to cut-n-sew the existing strap material in order to install one of the clip-in/out units. I hate to violate any of the existing helmet parts.

I saw the diagram and instructions of the 'buckle' type unit, as printed in
your 'user's manual', you may have a retro-fit system that takes care of my desire. Yes???? From you? From my dealer (Lone Star BMW/Triumph in Austin, TX)? From anyone?

Thank you for taking the time to read thru this - I look forward to your advice and solution.

Respectfully

R. Largen
===================================
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post #2 of 30 Old Jul 23rd, 2007, 2:25 pm
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Maybe one of our European friends could order the replacement strap and send it over here? Would need to send two sets if you want one.

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post #3 of 30 Old Jul 23rd, 2007, 2:53 pm
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It would be interesting if the gentleman would point out where in FMVSS 218 it prohibits quick release mechanisms. I read through the regulations and couldn't find it. The test standards for the retention are quite severe and maybe he is saying that none of the conventional release mechanisms can meet the standard? The retention system has to hold a total of 300 pounds for 2 minutes without moving more than 1 inch.

You might check out www.jafrum.com/AC1201-Black-Echo-Quick-Release, says it is DOT approved.

Res ipsa loquitur, sed quid in infernos dicet?

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Last edited by astuber; Jul 23rd, 2007 at 3:01 pm.
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post #4 of 30 Old Jul 23rd, 2007, 3:30 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astuber
It would be interesting if the gentleman would point out where in FMVSS 218 it prohibits quick release mechanisms. I read through the regulations and couldn't find it. The test standards for the retention are quite severe and maybe he is saying that none of the conventional release mechanisms can meet the standard? The retention system has to hold a total of 300 pounds for 2 minutes without moving more than 1 inch.

You might check out www.jafrum.com/AC1201-Black-Echo-Quick-Release, says it is DOT approved.
Thanks, Alan. I might ping him back, butt really not sure I wanna engage in conversation. I'll see what Tuesday's mood feels like!!

I carry one of those Echo-Quick release thangies in my oddy box, just haven't had the need to use it for the last 8 years, cuz all the other helmets had quick-release straps. I got it out the other day to see if I could adapt it to the Shoei, butt the Shoei strap is wider than the Echo slots, and the Shoei straps have too many obstacles in the way, with no ease of mounting the clip to the D-ring portion of the strap. I'm not sure the Shoei straps can be removed and maybe somethang mod'ed up to make the quick releases work - butt I'm more inclined to get rid of the helmet and go back to Nolan. I got $400 in the thang; should be able to get most of that back.

Man, this hasn't been my year for helmets. Bought a Caberg off the net and the darn thang had no chin room. Didn't fit me, nor Monte nor Doug. Got rid of it and bought the Shoei - now dinkin' with the chinstrap. I could prolly get used to the D-ring affair - lotsa folks use 'em; I'm just spoiled and too old for new dog tricks!!

Hmmmm - wonder if Denise can order a set under the guise that it's for Euro use?? Well, anyway, just to close this thread - Tony, you order a set and I'll gladly cover the second set, if they're interchangeable.
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post #5 of 30 Old Jul 23rd, 2007, 3:45 pm
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Picking Nit

Ad doesn't say DOT approved.. Says exceeds DOT and SNELL standards.

If I read it correctly..

Two completely different statements..


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post #6 of 30 Old Jul 23rd, 2007, 4:50 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSpen
Ad doesn't say DOT approved.. Says exceeds DOT and SNELL standards.

If I read it correctly..

Two completely different statements..


John

Got this from the Snell testing web site.
There are also administrative differences between Snell and DOT. Snell Certification means that Snell technicians in Snell labs tested samples of the helmet to Snell standards before the helmet was certified. Furthermore, as a condition of certification, Snell regularly buys samples of all Snell certified products and brings them into our lab for follow-up testing.

DOT certification is done on the honor system. The helmet's manufacturer determines whether his helmets satisfy DOT and then claims the qualification for himself. There is not even a reporting requirement. The government does contract for some spot check testing at commercial and private labs but not very much. In recent years much of their effort has been spent against so-called beanie helmets that are obviously substandard and are worn only by helmet law protesters.

Seems like almost anyone could claim DOT certification.

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post #7 of 30 Old Jul 23rd, 2007, 8:13 pm
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Any Euro or Oz brethren care to order some replacement straps with the quick-release?

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post #8 of 30 Old Jul 23rd, 2007, 8:33 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deputy5211
Any Euro or Oz brethren care to order some replacement straps with the quick-release?
I've never yet come across a helmet with replaceable straps, I would think the only way to go is to use a Quick Release Adaptor to convert your double D fastner.

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post #9 of 30 Old Jul 23rd, 2007, 9:06 pm
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Dick,
I "added" the QR to helmets I wore when riding HD's...

I was told they did "void" the "certification" because it was a change to the original design. That's what I taught in the MSF course.

Now, the bottom line is that there is a "chance" the strap could come undone in an accident allowing the helmet to move or come off your valuable brain cage... for me it was worth any potential "disconnect" when compared to ease of use with gloves, in cold weather, etc.. in the summer, it was quicker to get underway and minimize the heat buildup in the styrofoam head cooker.

...............
J.M.J...
Dcn Channing

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post #10 of 30 Old Jul 23rd, 2007, 10:10 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woolly
I've never yet come across a helmet with replaceable straps, I would think the only way to go is to use a Quick Release Adaptor to convert your double D fastner.
Hey Dick,
I agree with Wooly I have had these on my helmet for two years. They sometimes get a little "finny keee" when fastening them and they are not pushed together exactly flush.

Tryem, You'll like em.

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post #11 of 30 Old Jul 24th, 2007, 12:00 am
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FWIW - I bought a Schuberth S1 from BMW Ventura two months ago and it has a quick release.

Ted

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post #12 of 30 Old Jul 24th, 2007, 7:55 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted
FWIW - I bought a Schuberth S1 from BMW Ventura two months ago and it has a quick release.
Thanks, Ted. I wuz wonderin' about the Schuberths and thought I'd seen some with quick releases.

Sure seems to me that in the aftermath of an accident, and given the ok to do so, it'd be much simpler to undo the chinstrap with a one-finger quick release than a two-handed D-ring release.

Thanks to all who participated in this thread. I think I'll just remind the guy to take a look at his competition - name a couple for him - then let it go. He's got his company guidelines to follow; not mine.

Thanks again, Ted. Appreciate the input.
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post #13 of 30 Old Jul 24th, 2007, 12:25 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick
Thanks, Ted. I wuz wonderin' about the Schuberths and thought I'd seen some with quick releases.
No problem, Dick, and attached is some more ammo - look what I just noticed!

Once adjusted to the proper length (only have to do it once and not difficult), the quick-release is a nice feature - no more fumbling with splitting the rings.
Attached Thumbnails
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post #14 of 30 Old Jul 24th, 2007, 1:43 pm
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Another ? interesting ? point here: I can add to the discussion that even in a pretty bad accident but QR on the helmet did not come off.

I likes the QR. I had no problems with the D rings on other helmets, but if asked I'll go for the quick snap every time.

EDIT: That was a Schberth C1 with standard QR.
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post #15 of 30 Old Jul 24th, 2007, 4:36 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy
I likes the QR. I had no problems with the D rings on other helmets, but if asked I'll go for the quick snap every time.
Same here!

Ted

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post #16 of 30 Old Jul 24th, 2007, 5:12 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astuber
It would be interesting if the gentleman would point out where in FMVSS 218 it prohibits quick release mechanisms. I read through the regulations and couldn't find it. The test standards for the retention are quite severe and maybe he is saying that none of the conventional release mechanisms can meet the standard? The retention system has to hold a total of 300 pounds for 2 minutes without moving more than 1 inch.

You might check out www.jafrum.com/AC1201-Black-Echo-Quick-Release, says it is DOT approved.

Tried this on both a Shoei and Arai and I couldn't get it to fit unless I cut the straps, and it was more difficult to use, I had to take off my gloves. So if you want one I will mail it to you for the cost of postage.

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post #17 of 30 Old Jul 24th, 2007, 5:29 pm Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Texas42
Tried this on both a Shoei and Arai and I couldn't get it to fit unless I cut the straps, and it was more difficult to use, I had to take off my gloves. So if you want one I will mail it to you for the cost of postage.
Hi, Bo - yup, you're right. Those Echo thangies are a PITA to use. Don't know why I've carried one in my oddy box so long - maybe for emergency? Dunno.

Anyway, I solved my dilemma this afternoon. Removed the quick release system from my HJC (honestly don't think it's OEM, as the D-rings were still on the strap - just not being used) and installed it on the Shoei. Fit is perfect and works great. I did have to snap off the leetle anti-flap tab at the end of the Shoei strap - no big deal.

This one, and the one on my Nolan and the one that wuz on the Caberg are all of the kind that works by depressing, or pulling, a button in the middle of the connector - not like the Echo, which requires squeezing two opposing tabs on the sides of the connector.

All is well now, butt I think I'm gonna jerk that Shoei guy's chain, soon as I get my facts together. I have an e-mail into Denise for some up-the-chain addys to do some inquiring at Nolan and Caberg first. And maybe Schuberth.

BTW - the quick release unit off the HJC had no brand name - just a patent number. It's a really keen unit and I'm gonna try to find the manufacturer and see who the distributor/dealer is. I'll post the info if anyone is interested.
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post #18 of 30 Old Jul 25th, 2007, 12:16 am
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post #19 of 30 Old Jul 25th, 2007, 7:57 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick
Hi, Bo - yup, you're right. Those Echo thangies are a PITA to use. Don't know why I've carried one in my oddy box so long - maybe for emergency? Dunno.

Anyway, I solved my dilemma this afternoon. Removed the quick release system from my HJC (honestly don't think it's OEM, as the D-rings were still on the strap - just not being used) and installed it on the Shoei. Fit is perfect and works great. I did have to snap off the leetle anti-flap tab at the end of the Shoei strap - no big deal.

This one, and the one on my Nolan and the one that wuz on the Caberg are all of the kind that works by depressing, or pulling, a button in the middle of the connector - not like the Echo, which requires squeezing two opposing tabs on the sides of the connector.

All is well now, butt I think I'm gonna jerk that Shoei guy's chain, soon as I get my facts together. I have an e-mail into Denise for some up-the-chain addys to do some inquiring at Nolan and Caberg first. And maybe Schuberth.

BTW - the quick release unit off the HJC had no brand name - just a patent number. It's a really keen unit and I'm gonna try to find the manufacturer and see who the distributor/dealer is. I'll post the info if anyone is interested.

Is this it? http://www.ironhorsehelmets.com/quickrelease.htm
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post #20 of 30 Old Jul 25th, 2007, 9:39 am Thread Starter
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Hi, Butch - thanks. Nope, not it. I saw that one whilst looking for the one I have. I'm still researching patent numbers, and hope that'll provide the clue. Thanks again.
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post #21 of 30 Old Jul 25th, 2007, 11:59 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick
Hi, Butch - thanks. Nope, not it. I saw that one whilst looking for the one I have. I'm still researching patent numbers, and hope that'll provide the clue. Thanks again.

Or this one? http://www.scootworks.com/partshelmets.htm You have to scroll down to find it.
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post #22 of 30 Old Jul 25th, 2007, 12:35 pm Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BEhrler
Or this one? http://www.scootworks.com/partshelmets.htm You have to scroll down to find it.
Bingo-rita!! Great job, Butch. I'da never found it. Thanks bunches.

AND, it's DOT approved!!! How nice, Mr. Shoei dude. Course, I better check out the approval score - for use with helmets????? Hmmm.

Can't wait to see his reply.

BTW - that thang is soooo easy to install. After 6 years on the HJC, it wuz a leetle 'set' in it's ways and took some coaxing to get off. Butt, we're stylin' now, man!!!

Thanks again, Butch. Gawd, I love this site!!!
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post #23 of 30 Old Jul 25th, 2007, 12:57 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick
Bingo-rita!! Great job, Butch. I'da never found it. Thanks bunches.
Hey Dick, which one is it that attaches seamlessly to the Multitech, the "Echo" or 'Fast Hook' model?
Thanks,
Jer

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post #24 of 30 Old Jul 25th, 2007, 1:22 pm Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jers99lt
Hey Dick, which one is it that attaches seamlessly to the Multitech, the "Echo" or 'Fast Hook' model?
Thanks,
Jer
They Fast Hook model. BTW - Jer, I left the D-rings on in case I ever wanna use a helmet lock unit on the bike. I think you'd have to destroy the D-rings to remove 'em, or cut the nylon webbing and flame-weld the seam. I didn't wanna do that, so just attached the Fast Hook thru the same seam as the D-rings. Worked great.
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post #25 of 30 Old Jul 25th, 2007, 1:24 pm
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One less struggle, everyday.

I will try that. Thank you very much.
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post #26 of 30 Old Jul 25th, 2007, 7:43 pm Thread Starter
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A follow up to me ---

I wrote the guy and told him Nolan, Caberg and Schuberth (some models) helmets are sold here in the US with quick release chin straps, plus the Fast Hook quick release is DOT approved. I told him that I've added the Fast Hook unit to my Shoei and have decided to keep the helmet. He wrote back, in part:

"I understand that the quick release chin straps may meet DOT standards, but there is more to it than just that."

And he went on to thank me for wearing a Shoei, keeping this one, and offering assistance if I ever need it.

I'm done. Thanks for listening folks. And expecially, thanks to Butch for finding the Fast Hook. I'm gonna order a new one, just to have for the next helmet I buy that is sans a quick release.

Best Regards, all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick
Bingo-rita!! Great job, Butch. I'da never found it. Thanks bunches.

AND, it's DOT approved!!! How nice, Mr. Shoei dude. Course, I better check out the approval score - for use with helmets????? Hmmm.

Can't wait to see his reply.

BTW - that thang is soooo easy to install. After 6 years on the HJC, it wuz a leetle 'set' in it's ways and took some coaxing to get off. Butt, we're stylin' now, man!!!

Thanks again, Butch. Gawd, I love this site!!!
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post #27 of 30 Old Jul 25th, 2007, 8:10 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick
A follow up to me ---

I wrote the guy and told him Nolan, Caberg and Schuberth (some models) helmets are sold here in the US with quick release chin straps, plus the Fast Hook quick release is DOT approved. I told him that I've added the Fast Hook unit to my Shoei and have decided to keep the helmet. He wrote back, in part:

"I understand that the quick release chin straps may meet DOT standards, but there is more to it than just that."

And he went on to thank me for wearing a Shoei, keeping this one, and offering assistance if I ever need it.

I'm done. Thanks for listening folks. And expecially, thanks to Butch for finding the Fast Hook. I'm gonna order a new one, just to have for the next helmet I buy that is sans a quick release.
Best Regards, all.
On your endorsement, I ordered as well. I have the Echo but it's difficult to use at times.
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post #28 of 30 Old Jul 25th, 2007, 11:27 pm
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Location: Round Rock, TX, USA
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Doooooood! almost $9 for S & H!!!! may need a "group" buy!

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post #29 of 30 Old Jul 26th, 2007, 8:04 am Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cfell
Doooooood! almost $9 for S & H!!!! may need a "group" buy!
I wuz thinkin' of buying more'n one, just to average out. First tho, I think I'll check with Denise, as I'm pretty sure the one I have came from L.S.
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post #30 of 30 Old Jul 26th, 2007, 8:54 am
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Location: Redlands, CA, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfell
Doooooood! almost $9 for S & H!!!! may need a "group" buy!
True. However, if you subtract out the fact that there is no sales tax (for me) and then the mileage costs to drive around looking for the item, it's a bargain.
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