The radar detector wars just got hotter - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 25 Old Jan 30th, 2007, 4:11 pm Thread Starter
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The radar detector wars just got hotter

Escort Radar introduced the Passport 9500i at CES.

http://www.escortinc.com/9500i.htm

It has a GPS receiver and memory in it so it can...
  • Record false signals and remember their location AND ignore the false warning in the future
  • Mark speed traps and remember their location AND provide advance warning
  • Computes and displays your speed on the display
  • It now talks to you
Too funny.


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post #2 of 25 Old Jan 30th, 2007, 4:34 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljeffe
Escort Radar introduced the Passport 9500i at CES.

http://www.escortinc.com/9500i.htm

It has a GPS receiver and memory in it so it can...
  • Record false signals and remember their location AND ignore the false warning in the future
  • Mark speed traps and remember their location AND provide advance warning
  • Computes and displays your speed on the display
  • It now talks to you
Too funny.
Hmmm. I wonder if it will apologize to you if it fails to warn you and you receive a performance award.

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post #3 of 25 Old Jan 30th, 2007, 5:11 pm
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After recently sitting thru a 45 minute presentation from a Motorcycle Riding Idaho State Patrolman describe how their Radar works I would not commit any monies to any type of radar boxes. Their technology is awesome!!

It would be a waste of money......

They can pick you up coming and going, from behind or in front...

I'll just trust my intuition as always when I feel the need for speed........

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post #4 of 25 Old Jan 30th, 2007, 6:06 pm
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Really? My Valentine 1 seems to be up to the job of finding radar as used here in NY state by troopers. I get warnings in plenty of time to slow. Others fly by me and get tagged. I did get a hit from Laser, but was lucky that the car directly in front of me seemed to be doing 10 mph more than me and he got tagged. In the last two weeks I have avoided three situations that would have resulted in likely tickets. That would be bad. Radar detector good. Maybe where they use instant on I would not fair so well. My intuition....non-existent.

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post #5 of 25 Old Jan 30th, 2007, 6:17 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhendrick
Really? My Valentine 1 seems to be up to the job of finding radar as used here in NY state by troopers. I get warnings in plenty of time to slow. Others fly by me and get tagged. I did get a hit from Laser, but was lucky that the car directly in front of me seemed to be doing 10 mph more than me and he got tagged. In the last two weeks I have avoided three situations that would have resulted in likely tickets. That would be bad. Radar detector good. Maybe where they use instant on I would not fair so well. My intuition....non-existent.
If our local Sherrif's department ever gets instant on they'll pay for it in a week.



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post #6 of 25 Old Jan 30th, 2007, 9:54 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
If our local Sherrif's department ever gets instant on they'll pay for it in a week.
They'd pay for it in less than a day!

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post #7 of 25 Old Jan 30th, 2007, 11:52 pm
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Our long time Idaho State Trooper says when he is using Radar in his Company car often times Radar Detectors even help him "Home" in on the subject..

I don't own one so I have no idea if he was pulling our leg on that but he seemed to be very knowledgeable.....

If I thought It was help me I would get one, but after his presentation I am sure they have it all "Wired"....

*I read recently that "Geico" donates radar guns to Law enforcement Agencies. And that the same company that makes the Radar Detectors also make the Radar guns......

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post #8 of 25 Old Jan 31st, 2007, 5:46 am
 
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Interesting discussion going on in Europe at the moment trying to ban the use of radar guns for use against bikes as they've been proved inaccurate except in the lab. Any slight wavering at all in the aiming can induce a large error in the readout because the 'hit' area on a bike is so small and what they get is a transitional reading, which is generally nothing like a regular reading on a large object like a car. So I'm told...

Personally I like those forward looking cameras they use in the UK - no licence plate to track the bike The new 'average speed' cameras point both ways, though, coming and going, so there's no escape...
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post #9 of 25 Old Jan 31st, 2007, 6:31 am
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[QUOTE=usmctpdog]After recently sitting thru a 45 minute presentation from a Motorcycle Riding Idaho State Patrolman describe how their Radar works.......... /QUOTE]

I'd be interested in knowing the details of this "presentation" from the Idaho State Police. Part of a twelve step pattern maybe?

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post #10 of 25 Old Jan 31st, 2007, 7:24 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usmctpdog
Our long time Idaho State Trooper says when he is using Radar in his Company car often times Radar Detectors even help him "Home" in on the subject..

I don't own one so I have no idea if he was pulling our leg on that but he seemed to be very knowledgeable.....

If I thought It was help me I would get one, but after his presentation I am sure they have it all "Wired"....

*I read recently that "Geico" donates radar guns to Law enforcement Agencies. And that the same company that makes the Radar Detectors also make the Radar guns......
Gecko also will not insure you if you ride over 500 miles a day or participate in any rally so I would never use them now for two reasons

Valentine and Escort to my knowledge do not make radar guns

Escort seems to have a far longer range and has saved me on many occasions

Tom

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post #11 of 25 Old Jan 31st, 2007, 9:43 am
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tmgs]Gecko also will not insure you if you ride over 500 miles a day or participate in any rally so I would never use them now for two reasons.

* I have never heard anyone say that about Geico and I believe they cannot restrict where you go on a mc. That would be too easy for a law suit.

Valentine and Escort to my knowledge do not make radar guns.
How do you know? I wish I had that magazine article to reference for you.

Escort seems to have a far longer range and has saved me on many occasions *That is their marketing strategy isn't it?

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post #12 of 25 Old Feb 3rd, 2007, 7:30 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usmctpdog
tmgs]Gecko also will not insure you if you ride over 500 miles a day or participate in any rally so I would never use them now for two reasons.

* I have never heard anyone say that about Geico and I believe they cannot restrict where you go on a mc. That would be too easy for a law suit.
You are wrong, they are not restricting WHERE you go, they are restricting _how many miles_ you go in a 24 hour period
Quote:

Valentine and Escort to my knowledge do not make radar guns.
How do you know? I wish I had that magazine article to reference for you.

Escort seems to have a far longer range and has saved me on many occasions *That is their marketing strategy isn't it?

well you should start be checking with Geico all it takes is a phone call or three

to my knowledge Valentine ONLY makes radar guns call them and ask.

I have never seen any reference to Escort making radar guns and my state ment said "to My knowledge"


this is just however my humble opinion however it is true Gecko will not cover you if you ride over 500 miles a day now in some states.

To quote the policy holder that just had to check on this (name withheld)



"But the company that really burns me is one that starts with G and uses a gecko. They won't cover you if you ride more than 500 miles in 24 hours."

then

"As a Geico policy holder, I was shocked to read this so I called them up. You are right about Geico in many states. Thankfully, Virginia is not one of them so I'm okay."

So if you have Gecko call them and check as you can see in VA they are not allowed to do that but in some states they are allowed to and do so.

So again I say call them.


Tom

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post #13 of 25 Old Feb 3rd, 2007, 11:22 am
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My Valentine has saved me a lot of money over the years as did the Escort in previous years,
in my opinion the Escort is a real good radar detector
but I am inclined to believe that the Valentine is better.

It is also my opinion that law enforcement possesses the equipment
and technology to "nail" anybody they want to,
but law enforcement officers (most of them) are just people
and with so many vehicles literally "flying" down the road, they don't have to "work" that hard.
they can just pick and choose which one they want.

Sure there are some overzealous ones that will ambush you in situations that border line "entrapment"
but the simple facts are that most of the time they really don't have to.
Even when they sit by the side of the road in a highly visible place,
some "moron" will come speeding by.

As motorcyclist we have the advantage of our "size"
but only if we use our "brain" instead of our ego.
I try to limit myself to ten over as well as being the "second fastest" vehicle
and for some reason unknown to me there usually is a car or truck
that just has to be "faster" than that motorcycle


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post #14 of 25 Old Feb 3rd, 2007, 11:30 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBuffalo
My Valentine has saved me a lot of money over the years as did the Escort in previous years,
in my opinion the Escort is a real good radar detector
but I am inclined to believe that the Valentine is better.

It is also my opinion that law enforcement possesses the equipment
and technology to "nail" anybody they want to,
but law enforcement officers (most of them) are just people
and with so many vehicles literally "flying" down the road, they don't have to "work" that hard.
they can just pick and choose which one they want.

Sure there are some overzealous ones that will ambush you in situations that border line "entrapment"
but the simple facts are that most of the time they really don't have to.
Even when they sit by the side of the road in a highly visible place,
some "moron" will come speeding by.

As motorcyclist we have the advantage of our "size"
but only if we use our "brain" instead of our ego.
I try to limit myself to ten over as well as being the "second fastest" vehicle
and for some reason unknown to me there usually is a car or truck
that just has to be "faster" than that motorcycle
ok, yup, yup and yup <g>

But why is it when ever that "one" car or truck just has to be faster My LT seems to speed up? even when on cruise control!, I mean WOW is it a built in feature?

<big grin>

Tom

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Last edited by tmgs; Feb 3rd, 2007 at 11:59 am.
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post #15 of 25 Old Feb 3rd, 2007, 2:04 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmgs
ok, yup, yup and yup <g>

But why is it when ever that "one" car or truck just has to be faster My LT seems to speed up? even when on cruise control!, I mean WOW is it a built in feature?

<big grin>

Tom
Well, Tom, you didn't know your bike has interactive cruise? Dayem son, read the manual.



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post #16 of 25 Old Feb 3rd, 2007, 2:18 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBuffalo
My Valentine has saved me a lot of money over the years as did the Escort in previous years,
in my opinion the Escort is a real good radar detector
but I am inclined to believe that the Valentine is better.

It is also my opinion that law enforcement possesses the equipment
and technology to "nail" anybody they want to,
but law enforcement officers (most of them) are just people
and with so many vehicles literally "flying" down the road, they don't have to "work" that hard.
they can just pick and choose which one they want.

Sure there are some overzealous ones that will ambush you in situations that border line "entrapment"
but the simple facts are that most of the time they really don't have to.
Even when they sit by the side of the road in a highly visible place,
some "moron" will come speeding by.

As motorcyclist we have the advantage of our "size"
but only if we use our "brain" instead of our ego.
I try to limit myself to ten over as well as being the "second fastest" vehicle
and for some reason unknown to me there usually is a car or truck
that just has to be "faster" than that motorcycle
Well said, Hans.

As we tell our rookies: "You ever go fishin'? Ever catch ALL the fish?"

Antony (Tripod)
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post #17 of 25 Old Feb 3rd, 2007, 3:34 pm
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Throw my experience (Retired L.E.O.) and .02 in here.

For starters, Top, I think the Idaho Troop may have made it sound a little better than it really is. There are some tricks to running their radar that make it more effective, but even that depends on weather, other traffic, and vehicle size. The radar operator can actually turn off the antenna (what sends and receives the signal) until you are within range then turn it on instantly giving your speed. If they have an auto lock feature (they set the speed that anything traveling over will automatically lock in) and turn on the antenna, all your radar detector will tell you is to pull over cause you are caught. Rarely do the Troops use this because it is too labor intensive and as was stated earlier, there is always someone who isn't paying attention and will drive right into them. The antenna off setting is more effective at night on deserted highways.

The way the radar works is simple. The beam is transmitted from an antenna and travels away from the unit in a "V" or shower effect. The further away from the unit the wider and less strength the signal has. When a large moving object enters the beam the signal is bounced back to the antenna, giving the operator your speed. This original signal travels a lot further than a bounced signal, which is where your detector comes in. You will start hearing a warning far in advance (If you have a good detector like an Escort or Valentine), but the signal reaching you isn't strong enough to bounce all the way back to the unit. This is what I meant earlier about being in range. So if a Troop is running the unit either moving or stationary you should have plenty of warning.

If there is another vehicle between you and the radar unit your speed can not be monitored at all. This means you could be overtaking a car going 60 mph and you might be traveling 80 mph, but until you actually pass this vehicle the car in front is the only vehicle on the Troops monitor.

Hills and curves can lesson the amount of warning you have so if the Troop is on the down side of a hill and you are on the up, you may not get a good warning. I know my Escort tells me and I have learned to believe it when I only get a couple of chirps out in the middle of no where.

Radar's effective range is almost nill in the rain or fog, but your speed should be relative, so it doesn't matter. Some Troops run their radar just for effect, because the detector will still pick up the signal which causes you to slow down. And yes, size matters. Sorry guys, but it does, at least with radar. The larger object bounces a better signal than the smaller, however the operator will receive two audible tones telling them one of the vehicles is traveling faster than the other, even though the read out is showing the slower larger vehicle...for awhile. As you get closer to the unit the faster vehicle's signal becomes greater than the larger object's (unless it is a motorcycle next to an 18 wheeler). The Troop will know you are coming, you are traveling faster than the truck and if he is patient you will eventually pop onto his screen, and by this time you are well within range and his autolock has you. So, if your traveling beside another vehicle and your detector goes off, don't pass it. If you just passed an 18 wheeler and your detector goes off you may still have a chance if you are a little ways from the unit.

The manufacturers of radar detectors do not build the radar guns, however the people that design the technology for the radar gun also design and sell the technology for your detector. Normally both new technologies come out about the same time to increase their sales. So it isn't Passport making both, but the people that come up with the technology and sell it to Passport are also selling the technology for the radar to the manufacture of the radar guns. When they come up with a new mouse trap for the radar, you will see something new on the detectors. New bands mean new detector sales. Pretty good business idea if you ask me.

Now the laser comes along. This devise is "almost" fool proof. Your radar detector will pick up the signal which is actually a beam of intense light, but 98% of the time your speed is already locked in when you get the warning. Your detector is only receiving a broken or fragmented light beam and the front of your vehicle is usually what broke the beam up meaning by the time your detector went off your speed has already traveled back to the unit at the speed of...you guessed it. Unlike radar's shower effect, the laser is a small beam of light. The only time you have an advantage with a laser detector is if the light gets broken up on a vehicle near you and you receive some of the bounced light. When your laser detector goes off you have to be quick, because the Troop can switch from one vehicle to another just like you can look through a camera at one car and then another. The beam has to bounce off some metal and usually flat surface, so the Troops aim at the license plate on the front of a car. Our scoots have less target area, so you may get a warning of the beam as the Troop is trying to aim the beam at something metal. On the K-bike it doesn't take long for the radiator to become that target, but you may be able to get your speed back down under the autolock speed before he gets a bounce.

Thus ends today's lesson.

Jerry
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post #18 of 25 Old Feb 3rd, 2007, 5:11 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
Well, Tom, you didn't know your bike has interactive cruise? Dayem son, read the manual.

Manual?

<g>

Tom

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post #19 of 25 Old Feb 3rd, 2007, 6:29 pm
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I've seen some LEO's looking thru a device that the detector doesn't pick up at all. Of course, he's sitting still and if you're awake, you'll see folks braking way ahead of you.

Anyway, what is that device?



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post #20 of 25 Old Feb 3rd, 2007, 7:56 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
I've seen some LEO's looking thru a device that the detector doesn't pick up at all. Of course, he's sitting still and if you're awake, you'll see folks braking way ahead of you.

Anyway, what is that device?
Hey Grif,

That is the laser. The reason your detector didn't go off is because the beam is so narrow it hits your vehicle and doesn't get anywhere near your detector. Like I said earlier, about the only time you will get the alert is if the beam is broken and frags of light bounce past your detector. Most of the time if you are in a high profile vehicle the Troop hits your license plate and you will never know it.

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post #21 of 25 Old Feb 4th, 2007, 6:47 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
I've seen some LEO's looking thru a device that the detector doesn't pick up at all. Of course, he's sitting still and if you're awake, you'll see folks braking way ahead of you.

Anyway, what is that device?
Instant on Laser I would bet,

similar to this or look for the lidar units they look diffferent more like a handheld pistol grip camera

http://www.speedzones.com/

wow if you have the detector wired to your helmet speakers be prepared to get blasted the moment they hit the trigger, they use them a bunch in GA. they have one car sit on a over pass and will have 4-7 patrol cars parked on the on ramp (so you can not see them till youpass the overpass) the cop up top pops em left n right the cruisers come get ya!

The Escort goes nuts miles away when they pop one in front of you.


and watch out for the ever loved trash can down under
http://www.radarbusters.com/news/cur...rash-radar.asp

here is more info as well if you care to read through all the tests
www.radarbusters.com

Tom

'07 GS Adv (mine), '06 GS <(My brides)
(the only bmw's in the stable)

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post #22 of 25 Old Feb 4th, 2007, 7:56 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmgs
wow if you have the detector wired to your helmet speakers be prepared to get blasted the moment they hit the trigger,
The Texas State Trooper's use instant on... a lot. Hardly any other agencies, that I know of in Texas, do.

I tried running the detector to the helmet this time and hated it. Went back to the Radar Screamer. It's more fun anyway. Three position switch by the left thumb for mute, low and high. That baby really does scream.



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post #23 of 25 Old Feb 4th, 2007, 11:04 am
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I use the H.A.R.D. system in my city helmet, so I don't have to run the cable all the time. Might switch and go with it in my Touring helmet as well, cause it shuts down the radio when the detector goes off and if your being followed by a Troop you go deaf, cause you can't mute without shutting down the whole comm system. What is this screamer your talking about?

Jerry
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2008 FLHTCU White Pearl

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Lonewuff is offline  
post #24 of 25 Old Feb 4th, 2007, 11:27 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewuff
I use the H.A.R.D. system in my city helmet, so I don't have to run the cable all the time. Might switch and go with it in my Touring helmet as well, cause it shuts down the radio when the detector goes off and if your being followed by a Troop you go deaf, cause you can't mute without shutting down the whole comm system. What is this screamer your talking about?
http://www.motorcycleradar.com/radar_screamer.htm

I put the piezo screamer under the body work. I promise you, it's loud! Some bud's heard it three bikes back on a ride one day.

You ought to see the look's you get when you pass a LEO doing a write up on the side of the road while his radar is still running hot and you have the screamer on high. Warble-warble!!



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post #25 of 25 Old Feb 4th, 2007, 11:03 pm
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Location: Seattle WA, USA
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Jerry/LoneWuff, you really sound alot like the trooper and you definitely know what you are talking about !! *Thanks for the info -

He said alot of the same things you did and that between the Radar and Lidar they get alot of people with their technology and where they aim the guns... He also spoke about being in open areas, closed in areas,
how radar is affected in weather patterns and having to be able to judge speed, etc...

It was a good amount of knowledge and he is also one of our BMW club members.
It was pretty interesting seeing it from the other side of things....

47+ Yrs Daily Motorcycle Street riding for Therapy

2012 Victory Cross Country Tour

2007 Black Suzuki DL1000 V-Strom - Sold
2007 Red Moto Guzzi Norge 1200 - Sold
2005 LT Dark Graphite - (Sold)
2005 PearlBlue FJR1300 (Sold)
3 BMW's, 8 HD baggers, 3 Goldwings & 860K + miles later
*Ridin steady since 1973

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