What the clutch? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 17 Old Jul 13th, 2010, 12:43 pm Thread Starter
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What the clutch?

I need some advise from some experienced K owners. I have a 2000 K1200LT. I bought it last year with 7k miles on it. Hopped on this morning to take it to work and couldn't get it into first gear without stalling. Will not roll freely with clutch handle depressed. Immediate assumption is that I lost my clutch cable. What next? How do I confirm the problem? How do I repair? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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post #2 of 17 Old Jul 13th, 2010, 3:12 pm
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Re: What the clutch?

Hi ,... well come to BMWLT.com . Your bike has an hydraulically activated clutch . Start by checking the clutch reservoir . If it is low , you might be lucky and have a bad hose .

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post #3 of 17 Old Jul 14th, 2010, 7:53 am Thread Starter
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Re: What the clutch?

Patric,

Thank you for your response. I took a look and the reservoir and it was empty. Just had the bike serviced about 6 weeks. Found no fluid under the bike. What is my next step? Do I just add brake fluid? Any direction you can give me would be appreciated.

Thanks

Dean
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post #4 of 17 Old Jul 14th, 2010, 8:06 am
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Re: What the clutch?

Sorry, you've probably got a bad slave cylinder and it's leaking and probably contaminating the clutch.

Time to spend 1500 or so at the dealer or tear it apart and fix it yourself.


Sorry for the bad news..

John

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post #5 of 17 Old Jul 14th, 2010, 8:09 am
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Re: What the clutch?

Dean,
To add fluid, Bike on Centerstand, Bars full RIGHT >, wrap rags around the Clutch Master cylinder... carefully remove cap screws, carefully check for water in the rubber insert and dry until you can lift off the rubber part.... wipe "ALL" fluid that drips...

from a fresh bottle, 'add' fluid to about the top of the sight glass. Pump the clutch several times, SLOWLY... or you will see fluid squirt out of the reservoir. Do NOT look directly into the fluid. The hope here is you will "free" any air bubbles that may be trapped at top of the line.

When you put the rubber back in, it will fill up more of the master cylinder. Replace cover.

Clean all fluid

try starting and using clutch again... is the problem resolved?

If not, then you need to "flush" the Clutch hydraulic line. The "bleeder" is just beneath the right tipover cover.

...............
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post #6 of 17 Old Jul 14th, 2010, 8:12 am
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Re: What the clutch?

Oh.. if you are "losing fluid" it's what JSPEN said...

My recommendation is based on the hope they just neglected to fill the reservoir...

Definitely check with the dealer with your problem.. to see what they recommend.

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post #7 of 17 Old Jul 14th, 2010, 8:49 am
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Re: What the clutch?

I'm basing my input from the fact that it DID work at one time.. So obviously loosing fluid..

Here's to hoping it's not serious though...

After you refill. Start the engine. Put the bike in gear and hold the clutch lever in..

Well, maybe not start the engine... Tie the clutch handle down after you get some pressure.
come back in half an hour.. Is the clutch still disengaged ? This will probably be your indicator of a leaking slave....

Good Luck

John

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post #8 of 17 Old Jul 14th, 2010, 8:52 am
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Re: What the clutch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSpen
I'm basing my input from the fact that it DID work at one time.. So obviously loosing fluid..

Here's to hoping it's not serious though...

After you refill. Start the engine. Put the bike in gear and hold the clutch lever in..

Well, maybe not start the engine... Tie the clutch handle down after you get some pressure.
come back in half an hour.. Is the clutch still disengaged ? This will probably be your indicator of a leaking slave....

Good Luck

John
That's wonderful advice, John! Thanks!

...............
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post #9 of 17 Old Jul 14th, 2010, 8:55 am
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Re: What the clutch?

Did they do a flush of the clutch fluid last service? It's also possible that the grub screw is leaking if that's the case, so if you fill and everything works, I would monitor fluid level to see if you are losing fluid. If you are, and if your clutch is NOT slipping in 5th gear, you'll need to check the seal on the grub screw under the right tupperware.

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post #10 of 17 Old Jul 14th, 2010, 9:42 am
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Re: What the clutch?

I've never been so optimistic to think it might be a leaking grub fitting..
But, Hey, Who knows, It could be.........

It would go along with the theory the trouble usually comes from the last thing that was screwed around with....

Hey Chan,, Do you think if someone had a helper, You could pull the entire rear assembly off in one piece ?

As in leave the rear tire and final drive on the swingarm and just remove the whole mess at the swingarm pivots and pop the drive shaft loose there at the trans output ?

I'll be someone has done this.. It would require a helper to pull off though..

John

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post #11 of 17 Old Jul 14th, 2010, 11:36 am
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Re: What the clutch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSpen
I've never been so optimistic to think it might be a leaking grub fitting..
But, Hey, Who knows, It could be.........

It would go along with the theory the trouble usually comes from the last thing that was screwed around with....

Hey Chan,, Do you think if someone had a helper, You could pull the entire rear assembly off in one piece ?

As in leave the rear tire and final drive on the swingarm and just remove the whole mess at the swingarm pivots and pop the drive shaft loose there at the trans output ?

I'll be someone has done this.. It would require a helper to pull off though..

John
The hard part is the drive shaft. One end will most likely stay on the tranny and you will have to remove the rear drive to hook it back up. Much faster to just remove the rear drive first. But you might get lucky if you can pop it off the tranny through the pivot hole. But then how do you pop it back on when done?

John
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post #12 of 17 Old Jul 14th, 2010, 12:15 pm
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Re: What the clutch?

I cannot imagine being able to pull "everything" as one assembly. I would be impressed to see it.

With the rear swingarm attached to the frame and separate from the gearbox, I think that would put too much stress on the boot where they connect... including the universal..

If you weigh the whole set of parts, I'm gonna guess it would take quite a "heavy lifter" to handle it, too.

...............
J.M.J...
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post #13 of 17 Old Jul 14th, 2010, 3:03 pm
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Re: What the clutch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSpen
Do you think if someone had a helper, You could pull the entire rear assembly off in one piece ?

As in leave the rear tire and final drive on the swingarm and just remove the whole mess at the swingarm pivots and pop the drive shaft loose there at the trans output ?

I'll be someone has done this.. It would require a helper to pull off though..

John
I've sort of done this. I removed the rear tire and brake caliper, but left everything else in tact including the drag link. I separated the lower support from the frame and the swingarm pivots. I used tie downs to support the swingarm assembly while I worked on it. You have to get a long screwdriver or other prybar up to the driveshaft to separate the driveshaft from the transmission to avoid pulling the driveshaft apart on removal.

The difficulty comes on re-assembly. I ended up separating the final drive from the swingarm in order to get everything back together correctly. I ran into a conflict between getting the driveshaft re-attached to the transmission and re-installing the boot that goes between the swingarm and transmission. With the boot installed, there is no room to get the driveshaft seated and once the driveshaft is seated, there is no way (that I found) to get that boot installed properly with the wire support inside. Tried for a couple of hours but ended up taking it all apart anyway and installing it all in accordance with the Clymer instructions. Easy enough but several more steps.

So, it is possible to remove it all in one piece (and not all that heavy) but installing is a puzzle I never figured out.

Good luck,

Dan
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post #14 of 17 Old Jul 16th, 2010, 10:17 am Thread Starter
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Re: What the clutch?

All,

Thank you for the advise. I have spoken to my mechanic and we will be tearing down the bike shortly ( in multiple pieces, not as one unit!). Thanks for the info. Helped me decide how to handle the problem. I hope to be back in the saddle with bugs in my teeth shortly!

Dean
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post #15 of 17 Old Jul 16th, 2010, 1:22 pm
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Re: What the clutch?

Oh no you don't.. you can't leave us hangin'.. what does the mechanic EXPECT the problem to be?

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post #16 of 17 Old Jul 16th, 2010, 6:23 pm Thread Starter
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Re: What the clutch?

I will keep you informed. Belief is that the slave cylinder has failed. This has resulted in fluid flooding the clutch. Expect to replace the cylinder and possibly the clutch plate. Won't know until we open her up! I will let you know how it goes.
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post #17 of 17 Old Jul 16th, 2010, 6:42 pm
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Re: What the clutch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dean_kacos
I will keep you informed. Belief is that the slave cylinder has failed. This has resulted in fluid flooding the clutch. Expect to replace the cylinder and possibly the clutch plate. Won't know until we open her up! I will let you know how it goes.
Very common failure. Be sure he replaces both the front and rear transmission input shaft seals, brake fluid on the seals causes them to fail later.

Your mileage is awfully low, so probably do not need to replace the engine output shaft seal and o-ring, although the time on them is very high compared to the mileage. If it was mine, I would replace them also. Not much extra cost since the clutch will be removed already. Just have to remove the clutch drive plate and replace the seal and o-ring.

If he is a SMART dealer mechanic, he will drill the slave drain hole in the transmission housing boss as MANY of us have done. Some dealers have done it on request, but only the smart ones. The "by the BMW book only" dealers that cannot think for themselves won't do it for you. The smart mechanics see the need and advantage.

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