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post #1 of 21 Old Feb 5th, 2009, 3:12 pm Thread Starter
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Impact of furloughs

Every first and 3rd Friday, most state offices will be closed except for the ones that are mandatory to stay open (safety etc.)

Some observations as to the impact of the furlough that starts tomorrow.

We have 3000 plus employees in the building. We do have a cafeteria owned and managed by an outside entity (small business) that employs 7. Mostly full time. Most large state buildings also have cafeterias that have employees.

Twice a month, these cafeterias will be closed. The employees will have less hours to work and will have smaller paychecks.

The trickle effect on the economy is going to be worse. Less money is going to be spent by everyone.

The standard multiplier for every one dollar earned and spent is 7 times in the economy.

It's going to get much worse before it gets better.

There are 238,000 state employees. Sounds a lot but considering we have 37 million population, it's not that bad.

For kicks, if the average pay was 5K per month a furlough represents a 10 percent pay cut = $500.00

Let's assume that the $500 would have been spent and not saved. My calculations:


$500x238,000 = $119,000,000 saved by state per month

$119,000,000 x 18 months = $2,142,000,000 (saved by state for the 18 month period)

$2,142,000,000 x 7 (multiplier) = $14,994,000,000 impact on economy.



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post #2 of 21 Old Feb 5th, 2009, 3:32 pm
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Re: Impact of furloughs

You're right. We had to implement a 10% cut for all salary (without the days off) and laid off about 1/3 of the hourly folk.

That 1/3 (only 13 people for us) will collect unemployment with little hope to find another job quickly.

Like most, My Family is cutting back wherever possible trying to "Hunker Down". Not eating out, buying farkles, other discrecenary spending is out.

I pray the "Puppet Masters" have some good ideas for BHO, I've been less than impressed so far.

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post #3 of 21 Old Feb 5th, 2009, 4:00 pm
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Re: Impact of furloughs

This is a sad fact of the times. Now if we could just get our elected officials (like pay them minimum wage until we have a state budget) to cut the pork out of the budget and make reductions where it makes sense.

How about we reduce the amount that we spend on feeding people in prison? Do they really need cable TV? I know they don't need lights, heat, or hot water.

I do remember getting a 10% pay cut back in 2001. After taxes, it really only amounted to ~$150 per month less.

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post #4 of 21 Old Feb 5th, 2009, 5:19 pm
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Re: Impact of furloughs

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaffyK
Every first and 3rd Friday, most state offices will be closed except for the ones that are mandatory to stay open (safety etc.)

Some observations as to the impact of the furlough that starts tomorrow.

We have 3000 plus employees in the building. We do have a cafeteria owned and managed by an outside entity (small business) that employs 7. Mostly full time. Most large state buildings also have cafeterias that have employees.

Twice a week, these cafeterias will be closed. The employees will have less hours to work and will have smaller paychecks.

The trickle effect on the economy is going to be worse. Less money is going to be spent by everyone.

The standard multiplier for every one dollar earned and spent is 7 times in the economy.

It's going to get much worse before it gets better.

There are 238,000 state employees. Sounds a lot but considering we have 37 million population, it's not that bad.

For kicks, if the average pay was 5K per month a furlough represents a 10 percent pay cut = $500.00

Let's assume that the $500 would have been spent and not saved. My calculations:


$500x238,000 = $119,000,000 saved by state per month

$119,000,000 x 18 months = $2,142,000,000 (saved by state for the 18 month period)

$2,142,000,000 x 7 (multiplier) = $14,994,000,000 impact on economy.
The stuff I wrote above might be viewed as not bieing empathetic so I deleeted it.

MY feeling for the politicians will sadly not change- Theves be they all.

Truly this will become worse Long before it gets better.

You and I can not spend more than we make- WE- know that. THEY DO NOT!!! and still they sit refusing to CONSIDER spending less. They like any boss will take it out on the employees first. They will and now have.

They will not suffer they will not bend they only want to spend.

several years ago the Gov. (Arnold) proposed an ammemendent to the state constitution REQUIRING a Balanced budget. The People of CA voted it down. Sheep!

Why he is not now shouting this at every opportunity I cannot fathom.

TO everyone who is affected ( Me too BTW) I am truly sorry and I hope this passes soon.

Though I do not expect it to.

Chuck

Remember when the Non producers relize that they- with no more work than a vote -can steal the efforts of the people who produce ,we are all
doomed. That day is upon us. the fastest growing business in CA are GOV AND HEALTH CARE - IN THAT ORDER.

GOOD LUCK TO US ALL.

Last edited by Chuck Presnail; Feb 5th, 2009 at 7:43 pm.
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post #5 of 21 Old Feb 5th, 2009, 11:31 pm
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Re: Impact of furloughs

My wife is impacted by this also.

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post #6 of 21 Old Feb 6th, 2009, 1:00 am
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Re: Impact of furloughs

Well, the good news is commuting expenses are now 10% less, and unless they brownbag lunch they'll save there, too. Of course that assumes staying home and eating PBJ's on the days off. More time for yard work.

Not making light of the situation, but pretty sure most would agree 90% is better than 0%. I've been at 0% since August 2008. Savings go fast. I'd take 50% of my last salary right now.

Remember my grandparents and parents talking about The Depression and thinking how that could never happen again. My parents were just about the same age then as our kids are now. Difference being that our kids have no clue whatsoever what's potentially right around the corner. They just notice we don't eat out nearly as much as we used to, and that the yard looks great.

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post #7 of 21 Old Feb 6th, 2009, 9:11 am
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Re: Impact of furloughs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted
Not making light of the situation, but pretty sure most would agree 90% is better than 0%. I've been at 0% since August 2008. Savings go fast. I'd take 50% of my last salary right now.

Remember my grandparents and parents talking about The Depression and thinking how that could never happen again. My parents were just about the same age then as our kids are now. Difference being that our kids have no clue whatsoever what's potentially right around the corner. They just notice we don't eat out nearly as much as we used to, and that the yard looks great.
I picked a great time to be sending my daughter off to college.

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post #8 of 21 Old Feb 6th, 2009, 10:38 am
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Re: Impact of furloughs

Great observations Raffy, just to update your post, the cafateria would be closed twice a month not twice a week.

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Last edited by RaffyK; Feb 6th, 2009 at 5:08 pm.
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post #9 of 21 Old Feb 6th, 2009, 12:53 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Impact of furloughs

ok. According to official numbers the savings to the state is $1.3 billion. You can extrapolate the impact using that number.



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post #10 of 21 Old Feb 6th, 2009, 2:13 pm
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Re: Impact of furloughs

Who's messing around with people's posts? I wrote the first part of my post, but someone came in and changed and added two more lines, wasn't me.

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post #11 of 21 Old Feb 6th, 2009, 4:10 pm
 
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Re: Impact of furloughs

As noted by another. 90% is better than 0%. I was laid off right before Christmas and it sucked. It made for the worst christmas I think I have had. Its scary wondering if you are going to be able to keep the house, etc... Luckily I was able to get an even better job pretty quickly but I know there are many that arent that fortunate. I have a love/hate for the furloughs. Part of me loves it for all of the state workers that are slackers, I mean lets face it, there are alot of state workers that would never last a few weeks in the private sector. On the other hand, there are still plenty of hard working state emplyees and I hate to see hard work unrewarded. I also hate it from the aspect of the lack of money being put into the economy at a time we need it the most. This will only help the downturn. Part of the reason for creating government jobs is to help stimulate the economy and is being adressed with the new stimulas plan. I also think Arnold is an a-hole. He has done absolutely a 180 degree turnaround from what he promised during his campaign and is letting the state budget turn into a 3 ring circus. Our state is the laughing stock of this nation courtesy of the terminator. I think we need to terminate him from governer. He talks about running the state as a business but does nothing to actually clean up the way business is done. I am going to get off my soap box right now. But all those state workers moaning because of the furloughs need to know what its like to be laid off in this economy before complaining. Take a look around at those completely without a job. we wont even get into the benefits offered by the state or the 14 paid holidays per year. Compare your paycheck to an unemplyement check. Besides, if this were the private sector, you would get a pay cut and still have to work the 2 days.

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post #12 of 21 Old Feb 6th, 2009, 5:10 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Impact of furloughs

Quote:
Originally Posted by SandM
Who's messing around with people's posts? I wrote the first part of my post, but someone came in and changed and added two more lines, wasn't me.

That was me. Accidentally hit edit instead of reply. On another forum I frequent, the reply button is in the same spot as the edit button on this forum.



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post #13 of 21 Old Feb 6th, 2009, 5:17 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Impact of furloughs

I have no issue with the furlough. If it is necessary, then so be it. IMHO, it was a ploy the governor was using to have his way with the budget negotiations. Unfortunately it has come to fruition.



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post #14 of 21 Old Feb 6th, 2009, 9:37 pm
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Re: Impact of furloughs

Its not completly the Govenator's fault. Arnold doesn't write the budget, he just signs it in to law. Look at all of the other people that can't agree to cut wasteful spending and keep playing all of the party lines.

As painful as it sounds, we really need to simply say "We're only collecting X dollars in taxes, so we can only spend X dollars total." At this time, everything that is not essential to maintaining public safety should get shut down. No overtime. No more executive vehicles, no more expense accounts. No frills, period. The upside of this is that it will cure the awful nanny state that we have created.

Those that it puts out of work will have to go where the jobs are. That's what I have done in the past, and will continue to do in the future.

As soon as the government figures out that, like its citizens, it should operate "debt free" and live within its means, we will be OK.

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post #15 of 21 Old Feb 6th, 2009, 9:38 pm
 
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Re: Impact of furloughs

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaffyK
I have no issue with the furlough. If it is necessary, then so be it. IMHO, it was a ploy the governor was using to have his way with the budget negotiations. Unfortunately it has come to fruition.
My comments werent directed to you. However, every time I watch the news or read an article about the furloughs, I see state workers complaining about it and how its not fair. I have a few words for those people, life isnt fair, get a hemet. I think all state workers should have to take a few weaks every year where they have to work private sector and see what a real company is like.

I applied for the state and I had several interviews. One included a test where they placed me in an emplyees cubicle. The guy in the next cubicle spent the entire 1 hour on the phone talking about vide games with his friends, and then called his wife to discuss the games he was talking about before. At another departement I interviewed with, the day had just started and the exployees were sitting around talking about going over to the coffee shop. This crap doesnt fly at all at a real business. Everytime a state employee whines or crys, it gets very upsetting. Sorry for the tangent I took but its even more upsetting after losing my job where I busted my rear end only to be laid off 2 weeks before Christmas. I like that Arnold atleast told of the options. Keep p your job and take a furlough or expect large amounts of layoffs. I think the furloughs are a better route than layoffs. Layoffs will just lead to more people losing their homes, and worse devastation to the economy.
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post #16 of 21 Old Feb 6th, 2009, 10:06 pm Thread Starter
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post #17 of 21 Old Feb 7th, 2009, 10:38 am
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Re: Impact of furloughs

In the Bangor Daily News this morning, right inside the front page is a picture of a man standing outside a DMV office in California looking kind of puzzled while reading the notice of closure posted on the front of the building. My first impression was that we have saved a lot of people from the DMV for at least a day. No lines, no numbers, no waiting, no observing peoples dress and no sitting in hard chairs.

Out here in Maine, I have one brother that is a truck driver that is down to 40 hours a week from 55 hours. He has worked 55 hours or more for the last 15 years. It's like he lost one of his jobs as his pay is now over $1500. a month less now. And another brother out here is down to 35 hours a week in a business that is sure to close this year.

A bil in Tracy is being reshuffled around his workplace and is now traveling over 150 miles a day now with a cut in pay also. Another nephew in North Carolina just lost his job last week. Not even to talk about me and what this economy has cost me in the last year.

I think my family alone has taken about as much as we can right now. I can only wish that we were all working for the government right now.

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post #18 of 21 Old Feb 7th, 2009, 5:20 pm
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Re: Impact of furloughs

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMoore007
I think my family alone has taken about as much as we can right now. I can only wish that we were all working for the government right now.
It is going to be tough for a while I am afraid.

And with the Government using it as an excuse to nationalize the country, it is comforting to know that a bunch of incompetent liars will be running things in the private sector too.

Wait a minute, let me think about this. I think we already have that, so it will be a different bunch of incompetent liars, my bad.

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post #19 of 21 Old Feb 8th, 2009, 11:32 am
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Re: Impact of furloughs


I work for a major city police department, without naming names it's probably the largest police department in the state of Georgia. Begining on Christmas Day 2008, the police and fire departments began working 72 hours in every 2 week pay period instead of 80. Our Chief AND the union figure that it removes one full shift of police officers a day! We figure we're the largest 100% part time police and fire departments in the country.

The public is furious because of slower response from both departments (the FD closes different stations on a rotating basis). Property crimes are up dramatically in some precincts.

Coincidence?

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post #20 of 21 Old Feb 8th, 2009, 2:34 pm
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Re: Impact of furloughs

Chris, that sucks. A local police department completely laid off 29 officers and demoted several department heads. This with a total force of 400 officers. There has got to be another way than lay off police and fire.

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post #21 of 21 Old Feb 8th, 2009, 5:55 pm
 
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Re: Impact of furloughs

Quote:
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Chris, that sucks. A local police department completely laid off 29 officers and demoted several department heads. This with a total force of 400 officers. There has got to be another way than lay off police and fire.
Your right, this why I hate Arnold. He should roll up his sleeves, bust some skulls and get dirty. Dont take it out on real services that are needed. Clean the state up and go after the usless jobs, the worthless do nothing emplyees and eliminate the jobs that were created just get emplyees transfered. Its amazing at the waste the state has. I wouls start first with the worthless mornons that still cant figure out a budget. Fire them all. Then go re-elect new officials with ahalf the pay and no per diem. Make them actually work for the salary and make them produce monthly sttements be sent to the people that live in their territory. after all they are working for and representing you the people that voted for them. Then I would go after all the usless jobs where peopledo nothing. Now lets start pulling attendance records. If you are continously late, calling in sick, etc... your fired. Now to the benefits. Tell the state employees you get 7 paid holidays like a normal company. Put new limits on how much sick and vacation they can get. Ohhh, and paid overtime for salary emplyees should be over. Thats disgusting to anyone working on the private sector. I would ban all these negotiated mandatory pay raises. You get a pay rais based on merit and hard work. If Arnold wants to clean up the state then this would be the start. Until then he is just as worthless as the rest of the morons trying to figure out a budget. Of course I think we should eliminate him in my plan as well.
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