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  Topic Review (Newest First)
Sep 2nd, 2013 9:02 pm
deputy5211
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

I do not believe that Kroger premium is ethanol-free in all states they operate or across all of their many brands. In the D/FW area, it does not apply on Kroger-branded fuel. On a recent trip out west, did not see such a sign at Fry's, Food For Less, or Ralphs (all Kroger brands).
Sep 2nd, 2013 8:00 pm
Kra961
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

According to the Service Rep BMW will not warranty damage done to your fuel system caused by Ethanol, the problem is the rubber used in the fuel system that rapidly degrades because of Ethanol the stuff really does a number on hoses and rings.

If we end up with E15 I think we're going to see a whole heck of lot of very unhappy people not to mention the drastically lowered fuel mileage that goes along with its use.
Sep 2nd, 2013 12:19 pm
blueknightga6
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
Just remember higher octane does not mean more power per volume of fuel. In fact just the opposite is true as the higher octane will not detonate in a high compression engine where lower octane will explode on its own.
I had a 2000 Ford Mustang and Ford recommended REGULAR unleaded even saying the engine was designed for it. The owner's manual even had a section that said that premium unleaded "provided no benefit for the engine and could result in less than optimal fuel economy and performance". Some engines are designed for it and some are not.
Sep 2nd, 2013 9:57 am
rowie
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

And with higher compression in the '05s and onwards, they also, IMHO, are a "never ever ever run anything less than 91". I've read about 8 different posts from John Zeiler over the last three years or so who mentions he has seen ring and wall damage across several motors almost certainly from running lower octane. I've heard a few owners on this board and on the road that have the misconception that because this is a BMW, it is high tech and therefore it must have a knock sensor... Which it doesn't (and you do have to wonder why on a touring bike that could end up in the middle of nowhere, but presumably it was a cost/benefit trade off).

Now on the topic of ethanol, I hate that stuff - it destroyed the fuel system of a chain saw and blower even with Stabil added (fuel lines harden and crack). And worse, there are only two gas stations in the entire state of MA that have fuel without ethanol, and they're way out of the way for me to get to. So I guess I'm hoping by the luck of the gods that the fuel system can handle 10% corn.... And there was talk of going to 15%...
Sep 1st, 2013 7:10 pm
Dragonwing
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

Owner's manual specifies 91 pump octane for mine. So, no guesswork or analysis need be involved. Seems simple enough.
Sep 1st, 2013 7:07 pm
timgray
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

I was believing that sticker on the gas lid that said 89 AKI mean 89 Octane US.

Need to get some octane booster in there. Honestly, why did the dealers let the bikes out without slapping a sticker over that or peeling it off. Most people would be fooled by that.
Sep 1st, 2013 7:03 pm
6speedTi
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

World wide premium is 91 octane in USA numbers. Super is what most of us confuse premium to be. 95 RON in Europe is equal to our 91 here in the states. Generally you will only find one grade of unleaded fuel in Europe and it is 95 RON. Europe is more focused on diesel and multiple grades of cetane ratings. 89 to 91 octane should be sufficient to run a BMW motorbike. If you ride hard then step up the octane fuel. If you can avoid ethanol and run straight gas it would be better.
Sep 1st, 2013 6:05 pm
gary45
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

the LT motor does not have a knock sensor so you are taking a chance running less the premium - they run pretty lean
Sep 1st, 2013 5:40 pm
RonKMiller
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by timgray

The LT is a 10.8:1 compression engine and that is why we actually need Midgrade at normal temps and Premium at high air temps.
I don't think I can agree with that line of thinking.

The owner's manual of my my 2001 (which should apply to all years from '99 to '04 with a compression ratio of 10.8 to 1) manual calls for Super premium unleaded fuel minimum - 95 RON or 85 MON = 90 pump octane. Period.

I would not run regular or midgrade in it - ever.

Generally speaking premium in the US is 91-93, midgrade 89 and regular 87.

Compression does not always dictate octane requirements - it is MUCH more involved than that. (unless your current knowledge of internal combustion motors stops in about 1985). For example, Mazda's Sky Activ motor has a compression ratio of 13:1 - yet calls for an octane rating of 87. Over the life of the vehicle the savings between using super premium and regular can add up to some serious money.

I've always suspected that manufacturer's of high end vehicles specify Super premium simply because that's what their customer's expect: "What, run regular in my Mercedes?? It's much too good for that - why even the thought is just DREADFUL!
Aug 31st, 2013 11:05 pm
jzeiler
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by timgray
Yup, But at 13.5:1 compression, or running 24 psi of boost on an engine it's important to have very high Octane ratings so it doesn't detonate.

The LT is a 10.8:1 compression engine and that is why we actually need Midgrade at normal temps and Premium at high air temps.
The 05 + are 11.5:1 using the RS pistons. I always use premium, non-ethanol if I can find it.
Aug 31st, 2013 8:23 pm
RonKMiller
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by james216
Wished I could see signs like that..
You can - there are 40 in Ohio:

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=OH

If it was just a few miles out of my way I would definitely get it...
Aug 31st, 2013 8:15 pm
RonKMiller
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

There are apparently 146 stations in MI that sell ethanol free gas - and 7215 in the US and Canada total:

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=MI

Just about impossible to find in the Southwest. Ethanol causes all KINDS of hell with outboards, small engines and older bikes AND newer bikes as well.

Our local BMW shop - the #1 in the nation for customer satisfaction - tells me that 25% of performance related problems are due to ethanol. It keeps their service department busy and them in a very profitable position due to it.
Aug 31st, 2013 12:21 am
timgray
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

Around here they charge you full price for E10, but then they dont mark it E10, Michigan does not require them to tell you so only stations that have non ethanol advertise they dont have any, so you have to assume ALL stations are selling E10 unless they say otherwise.
Aug 30th, 2013 10:13 pm
james216
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

Wished I could see signs like that..
Aug 30th, 2013 9:44 pm
cws
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

Ran E10 95 in my 2005 for about 3 years as it was relatively cheaper and the LT is designed to take it according to all the specs I could find.
Trouble was I had a bad hesitation at takeoff, and since its my only vehicle for commuting I have a lot of traffic lights to deal with.
Changed back to standard 95 fuel and hesitation gone, won't use ethanol again unless there's no choice.
Aug 30th, 2013 8:21 pm
timgray
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
Just remember higher octane does not mean more power per volume of fuel. In fact just the opposite is true as the higher octane will not detonate in a high compression engine where lower octane will explode on its own.
Yup, But at 13.5:1 compression, or running 24 psi of boost on an engine it's important to have very high Octane ratings so it doesn't detonate.

The LT is a 10.8:1 compression engine and that is why we actually need Midgrade at normal temps and Premium at high air temps.
Aug 30th, 2013 6:17 pm
jzeiler
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

Just remember higher octane does not mean more power per volume of fuel. In fact just the opposite is true as the higher octane will not detonate in a high compression engine where lower octane will explode on its own.
Aug 30th, 2013 3:39 pm
timgray
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

Not all places have ethanol free Premium. Most actually have more ethanol in the premium as it has a higher Octane rating and makes it cheaper to get to 92. I know that shell and the local michigan gas stations named "wesco" add ethanol to all grades, ethanol is actually an octane enhancer as well as a fuel so it is likely that if your local pump is using Ethanol enhanced fuel it is in all grades and probably at full 10% in premium fuel.

Ethanol it's self has an octane rating of 113, it's why most people that race cars run E85, it's cheap racing fuel.

http://www.cartalk.com/content/premium-vs-regular-0 Car talks info on this.

I am betting that the LT is designed to deal with ethanol, unless BMW made some major boneheaded decisions in plastic and rubber choices when they built the bikes there should be no problems... Storage issues are more important.
Aug 30th, 2013 2:46 pm
ATFLT
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

I used gas both with and without ethanol in my 99LT and never noticed any difference in gas mileage. My LT got 55-60 mpg most of the time around Kansas.
Aug 30th, 2013 2:13 pm
Centaurious
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

I run regular E10 in mine and get 50.1 MPG. I also live in Northwest FL where the highest elevation is an overpass. YMMV.
Aug 30th, 2013 1:43 pm
DanMartin
Re: Ethanol okay for your LT?

Wish I could see a sign like that !
Aug 30th, 2013 1:25 pm
mycamel
Ethanol okay for your LT?

Sitting in front of a Krogers and noticed a sign that reads: "PREMIUN FUEL does NOT contain ETHENOL"

I suspect that's company wide. Cool!!!

Hope that improves my MPG from 44-46 avg highway. Should also be better for my '02 engine, right?

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