BMW Luxury Touring Community - Reply to Topic
Thread: A cure for slave cylinder failures... Reply to Thread
Title:
Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the BMW Luxury Touring Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










  Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

  Topic Review (Newest First)
Dec 20th, 2009 2:40 pm
Voyager
Re: A cure for slave cylinder failures...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
None of the vehicle you mentioned have the throw out bearing IN the slave cylinder so your comparison is moot. It is not the seal but rather the bearing that goes and then it takes out the seal.
True, but the throw-out bearings haven't failed on these bikes either. My point remains: the problem isn't the use of hydraulic clutch actuation. It is simply a poorly designed hydraulic actuator. No need to throw out the baby with the bath water. I will take hydraulic actuation over a cable any day.l
Dec 20th, 2009 11:31 am
jzeiler
Re: A cure for slave cylinder failures...

[QUOTE=mtrevelino]
As for the slave cylinder, didn't BMW come out with a revised design sometime during 2002? QUOTE]
The improved slave came out after April of 04.
Dec 20th, 2009 11:30 am
jzeiler
Re: A cure for slave cylinder failures...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager
The LT clutch IS a manual clutch. The simple way to fix this is to use seals that don't fail. I have had 3 vehicles prior to my 07 LT that have had hydraulically actuated clutches (86 Jeep Comanche, 87 Kawasaki Voyager XII, 94 Chevy K1500). None have ever failed in any way. The Jeep was 21 years old and have 150+K miles when I finally had a junk dealer haul it away. The Voyager was 17 years old with nearly 50K when I sold it. The Chevy I still have and it is 16 years old with 116K miles.

So, the simple fix is to use seals like everyone else uses that will last 15+ years with no problems. It doesn't get any simpler than that!
None of the vehicle you mentioned have the throw out bearing IN the slave cylinder so your comparison is moot. It is not the seal but rather the bearing that goes and then it takes out the seal.
Dec 20th, 2009 10:38 am
mtrevelino
Re: A cure for slave cylinder failures...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager
So, the simple fix is to use seals like everyone else uses that will last 15+ years with no problems. It doesn't get any simpler than that!
I agree, the seals BMW uses are worthless. This is the same with the rear main engine seal. Mine only lasted about 45k.
As for the slave cylinder, didn't BMW come out with a revised design sometime during 2002? The slave failure on this should be less than the originals.
Dec 20th, 2009 3:28 am
roadcrave
Re: A cure for slave cylinder failures...

I seen a Billet after market clutch slave around 150.00 somewhere,,,, anyone used this product, Also im on my second LT and every 30,000 i just replace the clutch slave,,, it is not that expensive...Matthew
Dec 19th, 2009 8:03 pm
Voyager
Re: A cure for slave cylinder failures...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSpen
Convert back to a manual clutch..

I can't believe no one thought of this...I forgot to get simple.
How do you fix something. The simplest way you can..

It certainly would be easy enough to design a manual assembly to mount where the slave cylinder goes...Just a cover and a lever assembly to push the rod in...

One of you machinist types should build this.........

John
The LT clutch IS a manual clutch. The simple way to fix this is to use seals that don't fail. I have had 3 vehicles prior to my 07 LT that have had hydraulically actuated clutches (86 Jeep Comanche, 87 Kawasaki Voyager XII, 94 Chevy K1500). None have ever failed in any way. The Jeep was 21 years old and have 150+K miles when I finally had a junk dealer haul it away. The Voyager was 17 years old with nearly 50K when I sold it. The Chevy I still have and it is 16 years old with 116K miles.

So, the simple fix is to use seals like everyone else uses that will last 15+ years with no problems. It doesn't get any simpler than that!
Dec 19th, 2009 8:47 am
RVB1019
Re: A cure for slave cylinder failures...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wa1200lt
Dave Dragon, how much tax benefit would you receive if the school had accepted your bike?
As an Administrator of a Tech School, I can tell you that the IRS would probably accept KBB value of the bike. That is what we tell anyone who is donating a car, bike or ATV to our program- unofficially of course.

Bottom line, it's a matter between you and the IRS.
Dec 19th, 2009 7:52 am
ltdavey
Re: A cure for slave cylinder failures...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
I was actually thinking of ways to move the slave cylinder up and at a right angle to the actuation rod, then putting a lever in the new housing to transfer the action to the rod. Had it somewhat worked out in my head, but the totaling of my LT in late 2004 kinda ended the thought.

My thinking was that removing the spinning action of the rod from the bearing in the end of the piston would remove most of the reason for the cylinder to fail, and even if it did fail for some reason there would be no path for the fluid to get to the clutch, and it would show up on the ground under the bike right away.

If someone makes me a hellava deal on -------- an LT, I may just have to work on this again.
Dave,
See pic.
It's time you chnaged your $ignature
PM me.

Dec 19th, 2009 3:47 am
JPSpen
Re: A cure for slave cylinder failures...

Quote:
Maybe instead of a small bearing in the rod BMW should have imbedded a bigger bearing in the diaphragm designed to take the abuse.
I think that ship sailed with the final drive....


John
Dec 18th, 2009 11:41 pm
dmatson
Re: A cure for slave cylinder failures...

Maybe instead of a small bearing in the rod BMW should have imbedded a bigger bearing in the diaphragm designed to take the abuse.
Dec 17th, 2009 7:17 am
dshealey
Re: A cure for slave cylinder failures...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cccpastorjack
Dave, If this is the case...how much do you think the FELT on the actuator rod contributes to the spinning of the rod itself. I know that the rod fits rather loosely inside of the Input shaft w/o the felt, but with it, it seems that it would be almost certain to turn constantly when the shaft is turning.

I have never considered the felt to be much of a "seal" at all and is maybe there to prevent noise??? But...I wonder if it actually contributes to failure of the slave bearing by making it spin more.
The felt is certainly not a seal, as fluid can pass through it. I was told by my dealer in San Diego that it was added to reduce noise. The actuation rod can rattle in the bore of the input shaft at times.

The rod rotates all the time the engine is running. The pressure produced by the slave cylinder spring keeps it in tight contact with the diaphragm spring which is always turning when the engine is running. I am pretty convinced that the major cause of slave failure is from the piston turning in the cylinder when the little bearing gets tight or seizes. One of mine was really chewed up from spinning, and I posted pictures of it in the past. That constant spinning is a lot to ask of such a small ball thrust bearing.
Dec 16th, 2009 10:02 pm
jzeiler
Re: A cure for slave cylinder failures...

Quote:
Originally Posted by garry_kramer
When I did my slave replacement I ordered the felt to install. The problem, on the 99 there is no place to put the felt so I left it out. Also the felt did not fit around the shaft. When I took it apart I did not find any felt on the shaft or a place to put it.

Garry
The grooved rod and felt were a product improvement added some where around 2001 or 2002.
Dec 16th, 2009 9:52 pm
garry_kramer
Re: A cure for slave cylinder failures...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cccpastorjack
Dave, If this is the case...how much do you think the FELT on the actuator rod contributes to the spinning of the rod itself. I know that the rod fits rather loosely inside of the Input shaft w/o the felt, but with it, it seems that it would be almost certain to turn constantly when the shaft is turning.

I have never considered the felt to be much of a "seal" at all and is maybe there to prevent noise??? But...I wonder if it actually contributes to failure of the slave bearing by making it spin more.
When I did my slave replacement I ordered the felt to install. The problem, on the 99 there is no place to put the felt so I left it out. Also the felt did not fit around the shaft. When I took it apart I did not find any felt on the shaft or a place to put it.

Garry
Dec 16th, 2009 8:52 pm
cccpastorjack
Re: A cure for slave cylinder failures...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
My thinking was that removing the spinning action of the rod from the bearing in the end of the piston would remove most of the reason for the cylinder to fail

Dave, If this is the case...how much do you think the FELT on the actuator rod contributes to the spinning of the rod itself. I know that the rod fits rather loosely inside of the Input shaft w/o the felt, but with it, it seems that it would be almost certain to turn constantly when the shaft is turning.

I have never considered the felt to be much of a "seal" at all and is maybe there to prevent noise??? But...I wonder if it actually contributes to failure of the slave bearing by making it spin more.
Dec 16th, 2009 8:12 pm
bigbear
Re: A cure for slave cylinder failures...

My 85 K100 has the throw out bearing spinning in oil in basically the same location as the slave cylinder pilot goes now. They have a seal inverted in the input shaft that prevents the oil from getting on the clutch. Well at least till the seal fails anyhow.

Been thinking along the same lines myself. Either install a TRUE thrust bearing for the load and use slave or mechanical linkage. I agree with Dave S. on this that there is no decent bearing in this assembly.

Simplest option: Ride my old K
Dec 16th, 2009 7:18 pm
wa1200lt
Re: A cure for slave cylinder failures...

David, Dave Dragon mentioned a while back that he literally tried to GIVE an LT away FREE to a tech school but never heard back from them.

Dave Dragon, how much tax benefit would you receive if the school had accepted your bike?

I would put up $50 toward making you whole for the tax break so Mr Shealy could have a bike to work on! Anybody else????

This aint charity in any way shape or form but rather a selfish personal goal. I figure I would get a return in spades on my investment with all the help Mr S. provides.

Let me know where to send the cash!!!!

Loren
Dec 16th, 2009 5:18 pm
kevincook
Re: A cure for slave cylinder failures...

Dave,

GAColson is almost trying to give one away. http://www.bmwlt.com/classifieds/sho...p/product/1966

Seems like a really good deal to me, although it is 10 years old. You'll have plenty of stuff to tinker with on this bike.

Kevin
Dec 16th, 2009 4:24 pm
dshealey
Re: A cure for slave cylinder failures...

I was actually thinking of ways to move the slave cylinder up and at a right angle to the actuation rod, then putting a lever in the new housing to transfer the action to the rod. Had it somewhat worked out in my head, but the totaling of my LT in late 2004 kinda ended the thought.

My thinking was that removing the spinning action of the rod from the bearing in the end of the piston would remove most of the reason for the cylinder to fail, and even if it did fail for some reason there would be no path for the fluid to get to the clutch, and it would show up on the ground under the bike right away.

If someone gives me an LT, I may just have to work on this again.
Dec 16th, 2009 1:45 pm
jzeiler
Re: A cure for slave cylinder failures...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSpen
To me simple is still good...

John
I agree John as I was looking for an easy tap point for switched power on my CAN bus GS. I began to realize just how dead in the water I will be with an EMP event!!.

You could always carry a spare cable and tie it to the old one as you pulled it out. Also a small pair of vise grips make a great temporary lever. Not gonna do that on an LT...
Dec 16th, 2009 1:36 pm
JPSpen
Re: A cure for slave cylinder failures...

Guess I've never ridden long enough for a cable to fail...
But most all bikes have cables. A lot easier to replace than a clutch and slave cylinder...

To me simple is still good...

John
Dec 16th, 2009 1:31 pm
jzeiler
Re: A cure for slave cylinder failures...

Golly Gee That is just what they have on Airheads. But that one had a bearing that was prone to fail and it spin welded the rod to the release disc. Oh and the cables broke all the time. But the clutch was OK.
Dec 16th, 2009 12:39 pm
cfell
Re: A cure for slave cylinder failures...

Great idee... I know I'd build it if I had the shop... No need to "replace" the Slave.. all you need is a "linkage" that moves the slave outside the engine/gearbox.
Dec 16th, 2009 12:19 pm
JPSpen
A cure for slave cylinder failures...

Convert back to a manual clutch..

I can't believe no one thought of this...I forgot to get simple.
How do you fix something. The simplest way you can..

It certainly would be easy enough to design a manual assembly to mount where the slave cylinder goes...Just a cover and a lever assembly to push the rod in...

One of you machinist types should build this.........




John

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome